Squid to Edmonton

[Kings4OT]

So your counting a pass on the back end as a good play? I thought you didn't like those Modry type assists.....

 

[PuckinUgly57]

I have to keep giving you grief simply because it's fun.

=)~~

I certainly don't expect this guy to rack up too many points, but you are correct, I am not a fan of the secondary assist usually unless it was a play breaking event. J-Blow made a living off those, which was the maddening part because his points totals were so inflated that one season he went to the ASG and homer Kings fans couldn't stop raving about it.

At least Jokinen was on the ice, I specifically remember one play where J-Blow passed it up to Boucher and went for a line change. Boucher did a lot of the work, passed it to Deadmarsh and he scored. J-Blow got a friggin assist sitting on the bench.

 

[Kings4OT]

I know, I just gotta give it back....I didn't want Cammy and then didn't really care for trading him. I would have preferred they waited until Carter or Gabs was back....but if he was complaining about time, then ya I'm all for trading him for anything.....he isn't someone deserving of more time or creating a problem

 

[PuckinUgly57]

I'm pretty sure he was under the assumption he would be in a T6 role with Gaborik on the shelf long term. Back in July the top two lines looked like LW Empty/Kopitar/RW Empty and Pearson/Carter/Toffoli.With 2/3 of the T6 open, he probably felt he had a good shot to stay there.

Knowing him like we do, I am positive his plan was to pad some stats and cash in elsewhere in the waning days of his career - I'm going to play on the top two lines, score 30 goals and 35 assists in a new, more offensive system and come July, BAM! I'm out of here for a 4 year/$18 million deal to whatever team thinks I am that type of player still at age 36.

What he didn't anticipate was two rookies in Iaffalo and Kempe and a resurgent Brown turning those two lines into Iaffalo/Kopitar/Brown and Pearson/Kempe/Toffoli, Kempe being elevated due to his level of play as well as the unforeseen Carter injury and Iaffalo being a better complementary player to both Brown and Kopitar. All of a sudden he is relegated to a B6 role, limited ice time and thus less opportunity to earn a next bigger deal and now unhappy.

Dems is the breaks, but he wasn't doing much anyway in those T6 roles. Much like when Carter was brought in to LA and it slotted people where they needed to be to balance out the lines and creating depth(i.e. dropping Stoll from the 2C to the 3C, where he truly belongs, and moving Johnson to create a balance defense of 3 mobile defenders in Doughty/Voynov/Martinez paired with SAHs Mitchell/Scuderi/Greene - any one of those 3 pairing could be thrown out there against anyone when you look back on it) I feel moving Cammalleri did that with the B6.

I feel Jokinen is a veteran, stable presence those lines needed because honestly, the B6 for LA has sucked ass for some time now and has been a revolving cast of characters. This also kept two offensively decent players in Iaffalo and Kempe from dwelling in the B6 where their skills and talents could not really be taken advantage of.

 

[PuckinUgly57]

The Juice is loose again!

Jokinen in LA
8 GP
1G/2A, +2
1 GW goal
11:30 ATOI (11th among forwards)
57.5% FO

Cammalleri in Edmonton
7 GP
0G/2A, -3
13:53 ATOI (9th among forwards)
43.8% FO

You know I am going to mess with you on deal all season long right?

=)~~

Seriously though, Jokinen has proven (to me anyway) he is a much better fit here than Cammelleri was. Nice goal last night, you kind of knew he was going to score given how good he is in SOs. That was a world class goalie he beat in Holtby.

Cammalleri is in a weird spot where he isn't good enough to be a T6 player but he isn't gritty enough to be a B6 player. We all have known that about him (he was meant for T6 roles) from day one but for some reason that dude's ego refuses to believe he isn't a top end scorer anymore.

As we all have noted the signing was a bit odd to begin with, always trust your gut. At least it wasn't a Dumbo contract and even better Blake was able to get rid of it entirely.

 

[Kings4OT]

The goal by Jokinen was nice, but the comparison isn't quite right.

In LA
15gp
3g/4a
12:38
46.8%

 

[PuckinUgly57]

My comparison is based on after them switching teams to support my fit for fit stance regarding the trade - Jokinen would be a better fit here than he was in Edmonton, and vice versa for Edmonton and Cammalleri. Prior to that, Jokinen did not fit in Edmonton and Cammalleri did not fit in LA. Since the trade, Jokinen has picked it up and gelled well in the B6 roles.

Jokinen is doing much better than he was there in LA, but we can't say the same for Cammalleri. He wanted to play in a more offensive system than in LA and get more minutes, and he is getting both those in Edmonton (he's getting close to 3 minutes more a night in Edmonton). He's also playing on the top line as of 5 days ago.

Some could argue he has better top end talent than in LA (McJesus, Draisatl, Nugent-Hopkins to name a few) but the points aren't coming. That begs the question, is he done?

 

[Kings4OT]

I thought he was done before he was signed.....Edmonton all around is struggling, unfortunately they already have McGod. In the end I don't think Cammy fits anywhere other than the LA PP....I thought he looked good there and made the PP look good. Jokinen is fine on the B6 and contributes which is needed. Cammy has always been a problem off the ice so that's reason enough to move him....but he had that problem before signing with LA anyway and like you said at least it wasn't a multi-year deal and they dropped him at the first (I assume) whine.

 

[PuckinUgly57]

I knew he has slowed down in recent years, but I was hoping he could provide 15-20 goals in some capacity. Apart from that Montreal game however, the more I watched him the more I realized there really is no spot on this team for him based on his current skill set.

All in all it was pedestrian move by Blake hoping to catch lightning in a bottle from him for cheap, so you can't blame Blake especially considering the cap situation but I will be honest when I say I had no idea he had become such an average player.

I'd rather see the young guys get more ice time in place of Cammalleri, or do what they did and get a guy like Jokinen who can play his role well. The guy knows he is a B6 player and what is expected of him.

 

[davnlaguna]

 

[Kings4OT]

Just checking where the stats are on this

 

[PuckinUgly57]

Jokinen
13 GP
1G/2A 3 pts
+2
1 GWG
60% FO

Jokinen was scratched yesterday against NJ, I'm not quite sure why. The lines were rolling and doing well. If anyone needs to sit it's Shore but with Carter out the Kings kind of have to play him.

Watching him on that 3-on-2 yesterday, ending up with the puck in the high slot and doing nothing with it (not even getting a shot off? Come on man!!) is aggravating but much like J-Blow the organization has some weird hard on for him. He must "work really hard in practice" as Andy Murray loved to say.

I'd much rather scratch him and go with 11/9/22/36 down the lines as the centers, he has absolutely zero offensive capabilities.

Cammalleri
12 GP
1G/5A 6 pts
-4
0 GWG
47% FO

Looks like Cammalleri has put up some points recently, 1G/3A this month in 5 games. He was moved up to the top line with Lucic and McDavid a few weeks ago but was removed and even scratched Nov 30. He's on a little streak right now but I don't expect it to last.

This is from RotoWorld, FHL information website:

Cammalleri has recorded a point in four of his last five contests. He has four goals and 13 points in 27 contests between Los Angeles and Edmonton in 2017-18. Even factoring in his recent hot streak, Cammalleri hasn't seen a meaningful overall boost in production as a result of his move from the Kings to Oilers. Dec 13 - 4:14 AM

I'd say that's pretty spot on, non factor for either team LA or Edmonton.

 

[Kings4OT]

I didn't think either was going to be a factor, with Jokinen taking a little more cap space....I though cammy made the PP look better, not sure if that translated to actually better.

One thing of note

Prod - Jokinen 81:05
Cammy 27:16

Not that it means much

 

[PuckinUgly57]

It means something, that Cammalleri is the more offensively productive player. And that is correct, that's what he was known for in college and after the Kings drafted him. No question.

Cammalleri's production however would actually be worse than Jokinen's were it not for this 4 points in 5 games streak he has (I did the math - it would be 82:50). But that's what he does, he is very streaky - always has been - so I'm not surprised. FYI, I am only tracking their production after the trade, not their total seasons - what happened prior is irrelevant to what they are doing for their teams now.

I guess my point is if you wanted some goals, neither of these guys were great options. In Jokinen's case however he can play those B6 roles, which was the value they received in the trade for an extra $100,000 in cap hit.

No loss either way, I still believe it was a fit for fit trade. Cammalleri can't grind it out, Jokinen can't score, and they went to teams that had both of those holes to fill but neither guy has really made a major impact even after the trade.

At least with Jokinen no one is expecting him to chip in a lot of offense (at least I hope not) but Edmonton did with Cammalleri.

 

[Kings4OT]

I wasn't expecting either of them to be on the team at this point really

 

[PuckinUgly57]

Pretty sad right? I look back on those B6 lines for both Cup winning teams and there is a lot left to be desired with what is there now. The guy who actually won me over who I didn't have a lot of faith in initially was Colin Fraser.

I wasn't expecting much from the guy but he turned into a solid team player and key component of the 2011-12 team but was waived by LA in Feb 2014, assigned to Manchester, recalled in May for the PO run but didn't play a game so he didn't get his name on that Cup but has two, one from LA and one from 2009-10 with the Hawks.

I remember the whole fiasco in the trade between LA and Edmonton in 2011 to get Fraser, with the deal initially being Smyth for Brule but Brule was not cleared from a concussion and then the trade moved to Smyth for Fraser and the Kings were going to waive him but he wasn't cleared for play either because of a broken foot. Dumbo went on some crazy tirade about then Oilers GM Steve Tambellini trying to bamboozle him not once but twice with injured players and said something to the effect of he would take Bernie Madoff's word over Tambellini's. Ouch.

Dumbo overall I think was a good GM and made some very deft moves but that was when he had assets and cap space to spare, the first 7-8 years.The issues began after the Cup wins and he had to dish out contracts and then mismanaged limited resources which is what led to the last 3 years.

I don't know what I found more fascinating, the way he constructed this team into a juggernaut or the insane press conferences and quotes.

 

[Kings4OT]

What is a little worrisome is the fact that they need a Jokinen, while I understand the importance of a veteran presence I think they have enough of that. Its hard for me to believe there isn't someone that can be brought up and looked at to fill that roll.

I didn't mind Fraser so much either, but the way that all came about for a player like Smyth was irritating, f that guy he wanted out and missed his opportunity so karma and all that

 

[PuckinUgly57]

What is a little worrisome is the fact that they need a Jokinen, while I understand the importance of a veteran presence I think they have enough of that. Its hard for me to believe there isn't someone that can be brought up and looked at to fill that roll.

Believe it or not, they really don't. The depth on C in the organization after LA isn't very good which is why they went outside the organization to get a veteran B6 centerman.

The Kings were hoping guys like Dowd and Shore could be slotted into those B6 roles, and Shore has come the closest but I wouldn't say he has cemented his spot there. He still is not battle tested enough the ways guys like Handzus, Richards, Stoll, etc were and his absolute lack of offensive awareness is very alarming.

Amadio looks like he has the skill set to be a shut down center but we won't know for some time if that is legitimate or not. Dowd had every opportunity to be that player but didn't take advantage of it.

With the injury to Carter they have to put Shore there because if they put Kempe as the 2C, the Kings become a top heavy team in the T6 and the B6 lines are essentially ineffective. Kempe adds a bit of skill on that third line which allows Stephens to throw them out there and keep other teams honest and put a line or defense pairing out there that normally would be resting. It spreads the depth out and the Kings can roll 3 decent lines out on any shift and that makeshift fourth line they have to roll the dice - it's a mess in the B3 with no player establishing themselves well enough to be a regular.

When Carter comes back I think Shore will be moved back to the 4C spot but for now we have to watch that painful mess.

I didn't mind Fraser so much either, but the way that all came about for a player like Smyth was irritating, f that guy he wanted out and missed his opportunity so karma and all that

Totally. The Kings made that move hoping he would be that veteran presence and help them win, but his wife if I recall hated Los Angeles leading to his trade back to Edmonton after only 2 years in LA.

While I understand that family will always trump pretty much anything, I felt it was a bit unprofessional leaving a team who acquired him to do a job in such a manner. He very easily could have stayed in LA while his family went back to Edmonton, ride out his time and move back. He had 1 year left on his deal when the Kings moved him.

On the positive however by moving out his $6.25 million the Kings were able to acquire Jeff Carter and move out Jack Johnson's atrocious defense and his $4.375 million. It all worked out and who knows, if Smyth is here instead of Carter the Kings may not go on to win that first Cup.