Speculation about Pirate Bullpen

[magnumo]

In Saturday night's win against the Marlins, Brad Lincoln came into the game with 2 outs in the 8th inning, and then pitched the 9th inning for his first save.

In today's (Sunday's) win, Jared Hughes was brought in for the 8th inning, and then handed the ball off to Hanrahan for the 9th.

Lincoln and Hughes have typically appeared in earlier innings in the past.

Speculation:

- Maybe those two are being showcased in late inning roles to facilitate a trade.

- Or perhaps they're being tried out in higher pressure situations with an eye toward possibly trading Grilli or Hanrahan.

At any rate, the timing (this close to the deadline) is interesting.

 

[sychmd]

In Saturday night's win against the Marlins, Brad Lincoln came into the game with 2 outs in the 8th inning, and then pitched the 9th inning for his first save.

In today's (Sunday's) win, Jared Hughes was brought in for the 8th inning, and then handed the ball off to Hanrahan for the 9th.

Lincoln and Hughes have typically appeared in earlier innings in the past.

Speculation:

- Maybe those two are being showcased in late inning roles to facilitate a trade.

- Or perhaps they're being tried out in higher pressure situations with an eye toward possibly trading Grilli or Hanrahan.

At any rate, the timing (this close to the deadline) is interesting.

i was thinking the same thing, but figuring that grilli is the old guy in the pen, so he would be first to go and has been dominating so very attractive to others and cheap and could retain him a while(i think). this way we keep young studs developing and who we could have for awhile if we chose to.

either way, we seem to have a surplus at the back end of the pen, and especially if we get the real/old meek back. our pen efficiency and depth is the envy of everyone.

my choice is to trade resop if we need to package a MLB ready and capable player to get some other asset for the pennant run and next couple years.

 

[Burgh Sports Rule]

i was thinking the same thing, but figuring that grilli is the old guy in the pen, so he would be first to go and has been dominating so very attractive to others and cheap and could retain him a while(i think). this way we keep young studs developing and who we could have for awhile if we chose to.

either way, we seem to have a surplus at the back end of the pen, and especially if we get the real/old meek back. our pen efficiency and depth is the envy of everyone.

my choice is to trade resop if we need to package a MLB ready and capable player to get some other asset for the pennant run and next couple years.

I think Resop would be every Pirates fans choice to be moved in a trade.

However, I don't think we would get much of anything for Resop.

If a RP is being showcased for a potential big trade? It is either Hammer, Hughes, Grilli, or Lincoln, I would think anyway.

Burgh

 

[element1286]

I think the Pirates bullpen is good, but it isn't THAT good that they can start trading guys away. It seems like many think that Grilli/Lincoln = Hanrahan, they aren't. Teams in playoff contention don't trade relievers, they accumulate them.

 

[steelparrot]

I think Grilli maybe starting to fall apart or maybe he is getting a few days to 'clear the deck'.

But, Hurdle might just be going with the better pitchers now.

 

[BigBlueNation111]

Seems we have a race going guys! lol

 

[pixburgher66]

I doubt they're trading any of our bullpen arms. I think part of it is keeping them in game situations. A few of those guys are predominantly used in blowouts or losing situations, and the past week those haven't been many.

 

[sychmd]

hanny is different than the rest. we need t okeep him, regardless of what we could get in return (nobody is going to give away the farm for a closer anyway, they are too random in their productivity except the mariano-types).

grilli is older and the one with enough track record this year as a setup guy to get a return.

hughes is ungodly in inherited runners stranded.
lincoln has been productive but small N.
meek, if he is back has the makeup.
they even have some guys in AAA that could work as well.

watson is the one who needs upgraded as i hold my breath when i see him coming in.
that is why slaten or one of those 4 AAA guys might be a possibility.

 

[stillmatic32]

Totally agree about Watson. The right handers are all very strong. We need a reincarnation of Damaso Marte.

hanny is different than the rest. we need t okeep him, regardless of what we could get in return (nobody is going to give away the farm for a closer anyway, they are too random in their productivity except the mariano-types).

grilli is older and the one with enough track record this year as a setup guy to get a return.

hughes is ungodly in inherited runners stranded.
lincoln has been productive but small N.
meek, if he is back has the makeup.
they even have some guys in AAA that could work as well.

watson is the one who needs upgraded as i hold my breath when i see him coming in.
that is why slaten or one of those 4 AAA guys might be a possibility.

 

[thecrow124]

Watson should never be in the game if the game is still being contested, especially with runners on base. He has to have the slowest throwing motion in the history of major league baseball. The game I was at last Friday, he had Braun on first and delivered a pitch to home. From the time he started his throwing motion until the time he actually released the ball, Braun had already taken at least 5 steps, and was well past half way to second, he could have stolen the base without even sliding, with the throw from the catcher.

I think in September and in the playoff, should we make it there, Justin Wilson would be a much better option out of the bullpen as a lefty.

 

[Etrius24]

Mags

I know we seldom agree on here...but are you seriously suggesting that a team with a suddenly respectable Run differential and a team that is 14 games over .500 before the trade deadline would possibly even consider being a seller and trade their closer, their set up man or one of the other valuable arms??

 

[sychmd]

Mags

I know we seldom agree on here...but are you seriously suggesting that a team with a suddenly respectable Run differential and a team that is 14 games over .500 before the trade deadline would possibly even consider being a seller and trade their closer, their set up man or one of the other valuable arms??

it is our area of strength, the only place at the MLB level where we have some surplus.

i would rather not trade any of our MLB players, unless the trade brought back a better one, but if our trade partner was looking for MLB quality, that is where we can spare it. as i said, i would not trade hanny for until after 2013 at the earliest unless someone really steps up to fill his role next yr.

hanny still walks to many, but that is nitpicking. not hitting 98-100 like he regularly did last year. not sure why.

 

[magnumo]

Mags

I know we seldom agree on here...but are you seriously suggesting that a team with a suddenly respectable Run differential and a team that is 14 games over .500 before the trade deadline would possibly even consider being a seller and trade their closer, their set up man or one of the other valuable arms??

Although I have not put you on "ignore," I usually skip your posts (since they rarely add value, frequently contain errors, and typically waste board space). However, I noticed in sychmd's reply that you addressed your post (above) specifically to me. So..... against my better judgement, and although I'm probably wasting my time, I will respond.


1. I did NOT suggest that the Pirates would be or should be a "seller." Trading a relief pitcher does not define a team as a "seller."


2. Here is a review of my post in its entirety. The first three statements are facts, and should require no further explanation.

- In Saturday night's win against the Marlins, Brad Lincoln came into the game with 2 outs in the 8th inning, and then pitched the 9th inning for his first save.

- In today's (Sunday's) win, Jared Hughes was brought in for the 8th inning, and then handed the ball off to Hanrahan for the 9th.

- Lincoln and Hughes have typically appeared in earlier innings in the past.

The next two statements are speculations AND are labeled as such. The applicable definition of "speculation" is "ideas or guesses about something that is not known" (from Merriam-Webster's Learner's Dictionary online).

- Maybe those two are being showcased in late inning roles to facilitate a trade.

- Or perhaps they're being tried out in higher pressure situations with an eye toward possibly trading Grilli or Hanrahan.

From my perspective, the change in pattern of Hurdle's use of the bullpen over the past two games raised those speculations as possibilities.

The final statement in my post was a suggestion:

- At any rate, the timing (this close to the deadline) is interesting.


3. I will add the following assumptions, stated in simple terms for your benefit, to further explain the logic behind my post:

- The Pirates' team, as currently constituted, has room for improvement.

- Huntington has been seeking a decent bat and a starting pitcher in trade (as widely reported) in order to improve the team.

- To gain value in a trade, a team must give value.

- A starting position player is more valuable than a relief pitcher.

- A starting pitcher is more valuable than a relief pitcher.

- It is well within the realm of possibility that Huntington might include a major league relief pitcher in a trade for a bat or a starting pitcher (or anyone else he deems as an improvement).


I hope there is no need to waste more space on explaining a post which seemed clear to everyone else.

 

[stillmatic32]

The Etrius vs. Maggs battle wages on!


I get what you are saying Maggs. Even a guy that is a bench guy on the Yankees like Andruw Jones or Raul Ibanez would be a nice boost for this team. Maybe someone like that could be had in exchange for a reliever.

 

[Etrius24]

Mags,

I love your response... you get all worked up... get out a dictionary... and start typing and quoting... breaking it down into little sections...

I just asked you a question.. I was not rude, or belligerent... and the questions I raised are not much different than the comments made by Element in Post # 4 <b> " I think the Pirates bullpen is good, but it isn't THAT good that they can start trading guys away. It seems like many think that Grilli/Lincoln = Hanrahan, they aren't. Teams in playoff contention don't trade relievers, they accumulate them." </B>

Pittsburger66 shared the same sentiment...in post #7 <b>"I doubt they're trading any of our bullpen arms. I think part of it is keeping them in game situations. A few of those guys are predominantly used in blowouts or losing situations, and the past week those haven't been many."</b>

Mags... your definitions, segmenting and sarcasm did not make your post or your assumptions any better... We all knew what you were suggesting... But I was not the only one that had questions about it.

What are you four?

 

[magnumo]

MAJOR ETRIUS ALERT:

Mags,

I love your response... you get all worked up... get out a dictionary... and start typing and quoting... breaking it down into little sections...

I just asked you a question.. I was not rude, or belligerent... and the questions I raised are not much different than the comments made by Element in Post # 4 <b> " I think the Pirates bullpen is good, but it isn't THAT good that they can start trading guys away. It seems like many think that Grilli/Lincoln = Hanrahan, they aren't. Teams in playoff contention don't trade relievers, they accumulate them." </B>

Pittsburger66 shared the same sentiment...in post #7 <b>"I doubt they're trading any of our bullpen arms. I think part of it is keeping them in game situations. A few of those guys are predominantly used in blowouts or losing situations, and the past week those haven't been many."</b>

Mags... your definitions, segmenting and sarcasm did not make your post or your assumptions any better... We all knew what you were suggesting... But I was not the only one that had questions about it.

What are you four?

For what it's worth.....

It was indeed a waste of time (surprise, surprise) to respond to you.

I did not get "all worked up" (nor am I worked up now). I did, however, correct your misrepresentations and apparent misunderstanding of what I had posted.

The posts of element and pixburgher were fine. Both stated their opinions (which I respect) and their logic. Their posts were not similar to yours in any way. Unlike yours, their posts added value to the discussion.

You posted: "Are you seriously suggesting that a team with a suddenly respectable Run differential and a team that is 14 games over .500 before the trade deadline would possibly even consider being a seller and trade their closer, their set up man or one of the other valuable arms??"

Read that to yourself again. Read it just like you would say it if we were face-to-face, considering especially the words I have highlighted in bold. You did not state an opinion. Instead, you.....

- Mischaracterized what I had posted,

- Attempted to ridicule statements which I already had labeled as speculations, and

- Worded your post as an attack on my post rather than as a statement of your own opinion and logic.

Neither element nor pixburgher did any of those things. Sorry, but I WOULD describe your post as rude and belligerent (and non-value-adding), and I'm content to let anyone else judge that as they see fit.

And your follow-up post (above) is more of the same.

- Contrary to your comment, "We all knew what you were suggesting..." YOU obviously STILL don't know what I was suggesting. And your use of the phrase "we all" is totally inappropriate. You certainly do NOT speak for anyone on this board other than yourself.

- Criticize my definitions and "segmenting" all you like. Unlike you, I respect my readers. I construct my posts (with definitions, references, assumptions, whatever) in an effort to make them easier to read and to facilitate understanding. Further, I submit that sharing one's assumptions does indeed clarify a position..... "make a post better," as it were. It's a shame that you continue to resist any effort to understand what is posted by others. I'm guessing that kind of behavior makes you exceedingly difficult to deal with in real-life conversations.

- You accuse me of sarcasm and finish your post with: "What are you four?" That says it all.

- But then you opened your post with the statement, "I love your response..." THAT sarcasm clearly signals the nature of what follows.

You continue to demonstrate your lack of value-adding as a poster on this board, and that's a shame, too. You would be well advised to follow the old adage, "when you find yourself in a hole, stop digging." But you've ignored that advice repeatedly in the past, no matter the source, and no matter how gently or harshly such advice was given to you. No approach works. No logic works. Nothing works. It continues to prove non-value-adding to engage you in any kind of discussion.

Since I skip over most of your posts anyway, I'm beginning to think that I made a serious mistake in NOT following Illinest's lead to put you on "ignore." Gotta check that out again.

At any rate, I don't expect to waste any more energy or board space on this discussion (unless, of course, you post more nonsense).

 

[thecrow124]

I have been thinking about this a little bit over the last couple days. I think they are trying to keep Lincoln's innings up so that he can be ready to start from day 1 next season. It seems that they have him go multiple innings one day, give him a couple days off then have him go 1-2 innings on what would be his bullpen day if he were a starter. I think they are just doing whatever they can with him to get his innings up to 100-110, and if they can get more they would be all for that as well.
Hughes I thinnk they are trying to get ready for the 8th inning role next season. They need to audition people this year since they are likely not going to be able to fill out the bullpen with FA's to cover the cost of the trades they make this season. The bullpen will have to be filled from within and I think Bryan Morris will get some late inning work in Spetember to transition him into the closers role.
My personal assumption would be that noone from the bullpen gets traded this year, because NH believes that a strong bullpen is needed to compete for the postseason. However, in the offseason, I think he is going to let Cruz, Grilli and Hanrahan walk, unless they agree to come back on minor league deals with invites to ST. If Meek can pitch better, it makes it that much easier to let those players walk.

 

[26 elroy face]

Although I have not put you on "ignore," I usually skip your posts (since they rarely add value, frequently contain errors, and typically waste board space). However, I noticed in sychmd's reply that you addressed your post (above) specifically to me. So..... against my better judgement, and although I'm probably wasting my time, I will respond.


1. I did NOT suggest that the Pirates would be or should be a "seller." Trading a relief pitcher does not define a team as a "seller."


2. Here is a review of my post in its entirety. The first three statements are facts, and should require no further explanation.

- In Saturday night's win against the Marlins, Brad Lincoln came into the game with 2 outs in the 8th inning, and then pitched the 9th inning for his first save.

- In today's (Sunday's) win, Jared Hughes was brought in for the 8th inning, and then handed the ball off to Hanrahan for the 9th.

- Lincoln and Hughes have typically appeared in earlier innings in the past.

The next two statements are speculations AND are labeled as such. The applicable definition of "speculation" is "ideas or guesses about something that is not known" (from Merriam-Webster's Learner's Dictionary online).

- Maybe those two are being showcased in late inning roles to facilitate a trade.

- Or perhaps they're being tried out in higher pressure situations with an eye toward possibly trading Grilli or Hanrahan.

From my perspective, the change in pattern of Hurdle's use of the bullpen over the past two games raised those speculations as possibilities.

The final statement in my post was a suggestion:

- At any rate, the timing (this close to the deadline) is interesting.


3. I will add the following assumptions, stated in simple terms for your benefit, to further explain the logic behind my post:

- The Pirates' team, as currently constituted, has room for improvement.

- Huntington has been seeking a decent bat and a starting pitcher in trade (as widely reported) in order to improve the team.

- To gain value in a trade, a team must give value.

- A starting position player is more valuable than a relief pitcher.

- A starting pitcher is more valuable than a relief pitcher.

- It is well within the realm of possibility that Huntington might include a major league relief pitcher in a trade for a bat or a starting pitcher (or anyone else he deems as an improvement).


I hope there is no need to waste more space on explaining a post which seemed clear to everyone else.

WOW, talk about wasting board space!

 

[magnumo]

WOW, talk about wasting board space!

I agree completely.

- Hence, the last line in that post: "I hope there is no need to waste more space on explaining a post which seemed clear to everyone else."

- I apologize for failing to label that post as an "ETRIUS ALERT", which I started doing some time ago to enable uninterested readers to skip such posts.

 

[Etrius24]

Okay Mags

we will try this again... I will change one word in my post to you... and go from there... You seem to get some mileage out of it. Here goes

"Mags

I know we seldom agree on here...but are you seriously<B>speculating</B> that a team with a suddenly respectable Run differential and a team that is 14 games over .500 before the trade deadline would possibly even consider being a seller and trade their closer, their set up man or one of the other valuable arms??

I bolded the word change for you.

I indicated there was no malice or attack... I posted facts relevant at the time... (record, run differential)

I asked a question and I explained why it was a fair question.

If you want to split hairs over one word in my post fine I can change it for you easily.

I think you just wanted to do your whole thing...

And I was not being sarcastic..I actually laughed when I saw your response...It provided great comic relief... I loved it.