So with the B1G and Pac12 getting less competitive in recruiting, etc.

[volbound2002]

Perhaps we should add some of these other leagues to the Power 5 such as American, Conf USA, and Sunbelt to replace the B1G and Pac12. There teams are looking competitive.

 

[cwerph]

Still won't help Tennessee.

 

[volbound2002]

Sunbelt looking good right now with Louisiana and Arkansas State both ahead on the road against Big12 schools.

 

[volbound2002]

Still won't help Tennessee.

Your conference and team sat out this Fall like a bunch of pussies. No one wants to play in your wimp ass league anymore. Recruits already leaving the Slob10. Ohio State should be begging the Big12 to join their league this Fall and make the move for GOOD. Leave behind your shitty ass conference. You would get to play Oklahoma and Texas every year.

I respect Ohio State, Nebraska, Penn State, and Michigan but the rest of the teams are crap. Grab those teams and run to the Big12. Leave the rest of the garbage behind.

 

[The Derski]

Stop eating paint.

 

[volbound2002]

Stop eating paint.

Dude, the Pac12 is done. They can't recruit at a high level (except maybe Oregon and USC) and they don't have the fan support. Every year, the league falls further and further behind the other leagues. I feel like it won't be long before the American League is a BETTER all around conference than the Pac12 and I am NOT trolling.

 

[The Derski]

Dude, the Pac12 is done. They can't recruit at a high level (except maybe Oregon and USC) and they don't have the fan support. Every year, the league falls further and further behind the other leagues. I feel like it won't be long before the American League is a BETTER all around conference than the Pac12 and I am NOT trolling.

Did your mom binge drink while she was pregnant with you?

 

[volbound2002]

Look at it this way, the only state West of the Rockies to have a lot of Football talent is California and even then it is declining. While states like Georgia, Alabama, Texas, the Carolinas, Florida, Louisiana, etc. have most of the football talent. The players that do not make it to ACC/Big12/SEC schools are going to American, Sunbelt, Conf USA schools. These schools, to a degree, have more talent and better recruiting than some of the Power 5 schools in the B1G and Pac12 such as Oregon State, Washington State, Cal, Purdue, Indiana, Illinois, Rutgers, etc.

You take schools like Memphis, UCF, Appalachian State, Louisiana-Lafayette, La Tech, SMU, USF, Cincinnati, etc. and put them in the B1G and Pac12 and I think they have winning records and some may compete even for the top spots.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Threads like this constantly miss the point that the BIG is more than just a collegiate sports alliance. Regardless their viewership footprint crushes the BIG 12 outside of Texas/OU. Substantially.

 

[volbound2002]

Threads like this constantly miss the point that the BIG is more than just a collegiate sports alliance. Regardless their viewership footprint crushes the BIG 12 outside of Texas/OU. Substantially.

Yes but the B1G is primarily those 4 schools listed. I cannot think of anyone outside of those 4 schools that is a true contender at a high level. Even among those 4 contenders, only Ohio State has done anything since the 1990s. Wisconsin is just sitting out but every time I talk to someone from Wisconsin, they are a Packers fan and very few really like the Badgers. Wisconsin also doesn't really compete well once they run into a team with significant talent.

To be honest, Ohio State is the only program in the B1G or Pac12 that can compete with the top level programs in the SEC. USC Trojans could under Carroll but they haven't done anything since then.

 

[volbound2002]

Also a lot of this also has to do with talent. The Football Talent in the Midwest and West Coast is not the same as the Sunbelt team. Football just isn't as big of a sport in those regions so many times the schools in those areas have to go outside to recruit if they intend to win the Playoffs. There is some talent there for 1-2 schools to recruit and compete on higher level but not for an entire league. This is especially true with the Pac12. You have enough talent on the West Coasts for perhaps 2 or 3 good schools but not for an entire league to be competitive.

However, in the Sunbelt states, there is so much talent that even the small schools like UCF can recruit and compete with the leftovers that the ACC/SEC cannot roster.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Look at it this way, the only state West of the Rockies to have a lot of Football talent is California and even then it is declining. While states like Georgia, Alabama, Texas, the Carolinas, Florida, Louisiana, etc. have most of the football talent. The players that do not make it to ACC/Big12/SEC schools are going to American, Sunbelt, Conf USA schools. These schools, to a degree, have more talent and better recruiting than some of the Power 5 schools in the B1G and Pac12 such as Oregon State, Washington State, Cal, Purdue, Indiana, Illinois, Rutgers, etc.

You take schools like Memphis, UCF, Appalachian State, Louisiana-Lafayette, La Tech, SMU, USF, Cincinnati, etc. and put them in the B1G and Pac12 and I think they have winning records and some may compete even for the top spots.

In 2011 "west of the rockies' had 14 top 100 players. in 2021 there is 15

in 2011 California had 36 four stars or better. in 2021 there is 33.

I'm not seeing it.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Yes but the B1G is primarily those 4 schools listed. I cannot think of anyone outside of those 4 schools that is a true contender at a high level. Even among those 4 contenders, only Ohio State has done anything since the 1990s. Wisconsin is just sitting out but every time I talk to someone from Wisconsin, they are a Packers fan and very few really like the Badgers. Wisconsin also doesn't really compete well once they run into a team with significant talent.

To be honest, Ohio State is the only program in the B1G or Pac12 that can compete with the top level programs in the SEC. USC Trojans could under Carroll but they haven't done anything since then.

And that still doesn't take away the fact the TV contracts with the BIG are more lucrative. If any conference gets absorbed it will be the BIG 12 in all likelihood.

And who in the BIG 12 is competing on a top level besides OU? And they STILL haven't won a playoff game. Texas? That dumpster fire? Please don't spend the time to disparage Wisconsin and then tell me TCU.

 

[volbound2002]

In 2011 "west of the rockies' had 14 top 100 players. in 2021 there is 15

in 2011 California had 36 four stars or better. in 2021 there is 33.

I'm not seeing it.

That actually supports my argument as 36 players is only enough for 2-3 football team rosters. Not to mention a player would likely rather go play for Boise State than Oregon State due to Boise State having greater national recognition right now.

Also really good West Coast players may also leave the Coast to go to Elite programs like Alabama, Ohio State, LSU, etc.

I think Oregon, Washington, USC, Utah, and UCLA might be fine but the rest of the Pac12 has to worry. Another MAJOR issue with the Pac12 is their inability to fill their stadiums like you see with the ELITE schools. That is their main issue. The outlook is not positive as Football on the West Coast is just losing popularity in general.

Football is HUGE in the Sunbelt states and you are starting to see that in the fact that even the teams below the Power 5 level are getting more competitive.

 

[volbound2002]

And that still doesn't take away the fact the TV contracts with the BIG are more lucrative. If any conference gets absorbed it will be the BIG 12 in all likelihood.

And who in the BIG 12 is competing on a top level besides OU? And they STILL haven't won a playoff game. Texas? That dumpster fire? Please don't spend the time to disparage Wisconsin and then tell me TCU.

Ohio State is the only team from the B1G to even make the playoff with the exception of a 1-time appearance by Michigan State who got crushed worse than even Oklahoma. Also NO B1G team except Ohio State made a BCS Title game (with the exception of 2001 Nebraska who was in the Big12 at the time and got embarassed).

The B1G isn't anything to brag about once you remove Ohio State. Big12 is actually better.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Ohio State is the only team from the B1G to even make the playoff with the exception of a 1-time appearance by Michigan State who got crushed worse than even Oklahoma. Also NO B1G team except Ohio State made a BCS Title game (with the exception of 2001 Nebraska who was in the Big12 at the time and got embarassed).

The B1G isn't anything to brag about once you remove Ohio State. Big12 is actually better.

Nah. they aren't. And most importantly they make way less money.

 

[volbound2002]

Nah. they aren't. And most importantly they make way less money.

Oklahoma and Texas both won BCS National Titles. Ohio State is the ONLY B1G team to even make a BCS Title game.

Don't get me wrong, Ohio State is for REAL but once you get past Ohio State, you see a major drop-off. I would say the #2 team most years is Penn State. Michigan has done a good job of recruiting out of the South with the North under Harbaugh but his teams never live up to hype. (Basically Michigan has talent but is not doing anything with it. Kind of like Tennessee most years).

Once you get past that trio, Nebraska really doesn't have a lot of talent anymore. Hopefully they can rebuild because the sport is better with them good. Wisconsin is about on par with a South Carolina or Oklahoma State. Yeah they have some talent and can win 10-11 games with their soft schedule most years but they couldn't win consistently against the top 15 and they really are not a top 15 team.

Iowa sometimes has ok years but are not a real contender. Similar situation with Michigan State. The rest of the league is Kentucky/Vandy level. This is likely why the rest of the B1G voted to not play. They have no hope of ever making the playoff or competing.

Even in the SEC, as bad as teams like Arkansas, Tennessee, Texas A&M, etc have been lately. Give them the right coach and they can recruit and become playoff contenders and potentially win it all. You saw this effect with Alabama who sucked it up most of the late 90s and early 2000s before they hired Saban. I don't ever see Iowa, Wisconsin, etc. fielding competitive playoff teams due to the limited talent in their region.

I don't see that in the B1G once you get past the top 2-3 teams. There just isn't the football talent in states like Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, Indiana, Illinois, etc. to compete with the Sunbelt teams. Michigan, Ohio, and Pennsylvania have some talent but not on par with what you see in Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, Texas, etc.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Oklahoma and Texas both won BCS National Titles. Ohio State is the ONLY B1G team to even make a BCS Title game.

Don't get me wrong, Ohio State is for REAL but once you get past Ohio State, you see a major drop-off. I would say the #2 team most years is Penn State. Michigan has done a good job of recruiting out of the South with the North under Harbaugh but his teams never live up to hype. (Basically Michigan has talent but is not doing anything with it. Kind of like Tennessee most years).

Once you get past that trio, Nebraska really doesn't have a lot of talent anymore. Hopefully they can rebuild because the sport is better with them good. Wisconsin is about on par with a South Carolina or Oklahoma State. Yeah they have some talent and can win 10-11 games with their soft schedule most years but they couldn't win consistently against the top 15 and they really are not a top 15 team.

Iowa sometimes has ok years but are not a real contender. Similar situation with Michigan State. The rest of the league is Kentucky/Vandy level. This is likely why the rest of the B1G voted to not play. They have no hope of ever making the playoff or competing.

Even in the SEC, as bad as teams like Arkansas, Tennessee, Texas A&M, etc have been lately. Give them the right coach and they can recruit and become playoff contenders and potentially win it all. You saw this effect with Alabama who sucked it up most of the late 90s and early 2000s before they hired Saban. I don't ever see Iowa, Wisconsin, etc. fielding competitive playoff teams due to the limited talent in their region.

I don't see that in the B1G once you get past the top 2-3 teams. There just isn't the football talent in states like Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, Indiana, Illinois, etc. to compete with the Sunbelt teams. Michigan, Ohio, and Pennsylvania have some talent but not on par with what you see in Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, Texas, etc.

$$$$$$

Does this help boil it down?

You also keep talking about conference depth. No one has any depth at the top except the SEC. There are five or six schools significantly ahead of everyone else.


Alabama
Oklahoma
OSU
Clemson
Georgia
LSU

That's it.

 

[HuskerinBig10]

Big 12
lost to Arkansas State
lost to La Lafayette
chickened out on playing SMU and La Tech
Did beat FCS E Kentucky
has games against FCS Missouri State and Holy Boys Choir University aka HBU
has another game against Sun Belt with Coastal Carolina, so far, Sun Belt is 2-0 vs Big 12

Big 12 is not exactly super dee dooper in football right now.

 

[volbound2002]

$$$$$$

Does this help boil it down?

You also keep talking about conference depth. No one has any depth at the top except the SEC. There are five or six schools significantly ahead of everyone else.


Alabama
Oklahoma
OSU
Clemson
Georgia
LSU

That's it.

I would argue the ACC. Keep in mind that I am also looking at potential and the full history over the course of 30-40 years.

In the ACC, the following programs, with the right coaches, could all become the next Clemson:

1. Georgia Tech
2. Florida State
3. Miami
4. Virginia Tech
5. North Carolina
6. Pittsburgh
7. Syracuse - this one maybe iffy but they had High Level Contending teams in the 1990s and early 2000s
8. Clemson

In fact all of these teams with the exception of North Carolina and Virginia Tech have won CFB National Titles. If you add Clemson that puts the team count to 8 ACC schools with recruiting regions that could allow them to compete at a HIGH LEVEL.

SEC has the following teams that have potential to be the next Alabama/Clemson:

1. Auburn
2. LSU
3. Florida
4. Georgia
5. Tennessee
6. Texas A&M
7. Arkansas.
8. Ole Miss
9. South Carolina
10. Alabama

That is 10 teams from the SEC who could potential put together teams that can compete for National Title. All of those programs are in or very near hot bed regions and out of that mix, every one of those teams with the exception of South Carolina have won a National Title.

I don't see that depth in the Big10. I see 4 programs in the B1G that can compete for National Titles with the right recipe: Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State, and Nebraska. Wisconsin is a maybe but they really don't recruit the talent and they are NOT in a recruiting hot bed.