Scherzer/Kluber win Cy Young

[SlinkyRedfoot]

I confirmed what you said that fWAR says that Verlander's '10 season was just as good as his '11. What's worse is that it says his '12 was better than both, and that his '09 BLOWS them all away.

Seriously, @soxfan1468927, how can you see this and take anything that fWAR indicates seriously?

 

[soxfan1468927]

Nah.

I confirmed what you said that fWAR says that Verlander's '10 season was just as good as his '11. What's worse is that it says his '12 was better than both, and that his '09 BLOWS them all away.

I'm not looking at that garbage anymore.

So fWAR for pitchers doesn't really do what it says it is supposed to do. I don't actually think it measures value, but merely measures fielding independent pitching. It relies heavily on strikeouts, walks, and HRs; and subsequently BABIP. Verlander's 2009 season, he struck out 27.4% of batters (career high until last year) and had a .319 BABIP (so he was considered unlucky).

I don't actually think that makes a player more valuable, although it can show that his surface stats may have been worse than how he actually pitched.

 

[soxfan1468927]

Seriously, @soxfan1468927, how can you see this and take anything that fWAR indicates seriously?

I think fWAR can be used as a good predictive model but not as a good measure for how valuable a performance of a pitcher actually was.

 

[navamind]

JV had a 6.4 WAR

Ellsbury had a 9.4 WAR

to put in context just how good Ellsbury was that year, that's better than any of Trout's last 4 seasons. And 2016 is the only one that is even remotely close.

And if you go by BB-Ref...
Verlander: 8.4
Ellsbury: 8.1
Bautista: 8.1
Pedroia: 7.9
Longoria: 7.4
Miggy: 7.5
Zobrist: 8.7

I would have voted Ellsbury myself, but I don't think it was a bad MVP choice by any means. I think it was an unusally strong field.

 

[navamind]

I think fWAR can be used as a good predictive model but not as a good measure for how valuable a performance of a pitcher actually was.

Agreed.

 

[obxyankeefan]

And if you go by BB-Ref...
Verlander: 8.4
Ellsbury: 8.1
Bautista: 8.1
Pedroia: 7.9
Longoria: 7.4
Miggy: 7.5
Zobrist: 8.7

I would have voted Ellsbury myself, but I don't think it was a bad MVP choice by any means. I think it was an unusally strong field.

I thought it was a crock that year for Verlander to win it when you had 6 or 7 everyday players that put up MVP type numbers, then turn around in the NL and say that Braun wins it over Kershaw because he plays every day.

 

[navamind]

I thought it was a crock that year for Verlander to win it when you had 6 or 7 everyday players that put up MVP type numbers, then turn around in the NL and say that Braun wins it over Kershaw because he plays every day.

the double standards involving MVP voting are dumb, but I'm not sure Kershaw was the best pitcher in the NL. His stats are awfully comparable to Lee/Halladay.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

the double standards involving MVP voting are dumb, but I'm not sure Kershaw was the best pitcher in the NL. His stats are awfully comparable to Lee/Halladay.

Plus, Braun is the biggest shitneck of baseball's steroid era. Fuck that guy.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

Plus, Braun is the biggest shitneck of baseball's steroid era. Fuck that guy.

He makes Bonds look like Lou Gehrig on steroids.

 

[soxfan1468927]

I thought it was a crock that year for Verlander to win it when you had 6 or 7 everyday players that put up MVP type numbers, then turn around in the NL and say that Braun wins it over Kershaw because he plays every day.

Well it's two different sets of voters for the AL and NL. I don't think Kershaw was even the best pitcher in the NL that year as I thought Halladay, with only a slightly higher ERA (same amount of innings), and playing in a hitter's park, was better.

 

[packerzrule]

Both deserve it but thought for sure Kershaw would have gotten the nod.

 

[navamind]

Both deserve it but thought for sure Kershaw would have gotten the nod.

I think Scherzer was the obvious choice. Strasburg and Kershaw were fantastic, but they only pitched around 175 innings. I don't think there was anything to really make up for the inning gap.

 

[tducey]

Congrats to both pitchers on their award, all well deserved.

 

[dougplayer]

Plus, Braun is the biggest shitneck of baseball's steroid era. Fuck that guy.

D ont ever question verlander greatness you fool!!

 

[navamind]

D ont ever question verlander greatness you fool!!

What the fuck are you babbling about?

 

[dougplayer]

Trying to teach you fool

 

[dougplayer]

Scherzer sorry he left tigers...

 

[navamind]

Trying to teach you fool

About the dangers of sniffing glue? Because you're doing a pretty good job of that.