Salary Cap Experts

[DunceKaep]

It is clear that total understanding of the CAP, and how to move money around, including what situation you are currently in and structuring future values and lengths are just as important as great coaching.

Now that I have made my "Captain Obvious" statement, I still think it is overlooked by some GM's. Now, no GM ignores it, that's not what I'm saying, I'm saying not all GM's are even close to equal in the CAP knowledge. Each organization has a GM and a few guys that I'm sure work on CAP numbers constantly.

I just think some organizations took it more serious than others and that's about to change a bit now.
I believe the superior CAP knowledge of a few have gotten the attention of the others.


^^^^******* past Seahawk GM Tim Ruskell, the way he operated, I'm sure he took the advice of mock drafts everywhere, especially Kiper and McShay. ie Aaron Curry. Thank you to the new Seahawk Leaders.

Go Hawks.

 

[WizardHawk]

The misnomer about the cap is it makes everything exactly equal. Teams willing to take more risks can front load contracts and reduce the margins on cap space per season at the risk of giving a guy a lot of money up front and having him get injured or otherwise not able to play and being out all that money.

Because of that, teams with owners who have deep pockets and are willing to take risks can keep more high end players than teams that don't.

Also there are players who will take a little less money to play with a winner. I mean you have to pay a shit load to get people to go to the Browns or even the Raiders right now.

And yes, every team has cap experts on them.

 

[DunceKaep]

The misnomer about the cap is it makes everything exactly equal.
And yes, every team has cap experts on them.

I agree, some experts are just better than others, and it has been shown.
If Carroll had come in and Ruskell was still the GM, (yes I know this would not have happened), but if it did, we would not be in the situation we are in now.

One GM made it happen, the other had NO Clue how to do it.

 

[WizardHawk]

It helps that we have an owner willing to spend more as well. That will become evident with the contracts for both Sherman and Thomas. Expect both to get a fair amount of up front money.

Hard to say what the long term efficiency of the cap team is when we were the youngest team to ever win the SB (I believe) and only the second youngest to get there. Seattle had more depth than most teams because of all of the players on rookie contracts. The real proof will be when they have to start dumping players they like to keep the cap space and see if JS can keep on bringing in playable talent to keep us having more rookie contract players.

I mean when your two normally highest paid positions are both on a rookie contract it can make any team look good. As long as they are performing of course.

 

[leomaz]

no understanding of the cap, aye?

It helps that we have an owner willing to spend more as well. That will become evident with the contracts for both Sherman and Thomas. Expect both to get a fair amount of up front money.

Hard to say what the long term efficiency of the cap team is when we were the youngest team to ever win the SB (I believe) and only the second youngest to get there. Seattle had more depth than most teams because of all of the players on rookie contracts. The real proof will be when they have to start dumping players they like to keep the cap space and see if JS can keep on bringing in playable talent to keep us having more rookie contract players.

I mean when your two normally highest paid positions are both on a rookie contract it can make any team look good. As long as they are performing of course.

What do you mean " we have an owner willing to spend more"? Is your owner allowed to spend more than any other team? I had always thought the NFL salary cap helped all teams spend basically the same amount of which each player had varing amounts

 

[WizardHawk]

What do you mean " we have an owner willing to spend more"? Is your owner allowed to spend more than any other team? I had always thought the NFL salary cap helped all teams spend basically the same amount of which each player had varing amounts

I don't claim to be an expert on it, but if you are willing to give more guaranteed up front cash on a contract you can be more creative at spreading out the costs over several seasons but at the risk of giving up front cash to someone that ends up not playing later and just losing that money.

How many times have you heard about a team eating the money after a player leaves? A lot of that is in those deferred payments to spread out the cap hit on big time contracts. Some owners are willing to risk spending that dead money and others are not.

 

[Jakology]

Well its plain to see that the Dolphins' experts were not thinking straight when we went on that shopping spree last season. I knew it was all false hope. I always is Virtually our entire O line minus Pouncey are free agents. Our 2 cornerstones on the interior of our D line Starks and Soliai are both free agents as well. As well as 4 CBs. 4... And we don't have even close to enough money to retain all of them. So we're really strapped and we're going to have to make a lot of smart cheap decisions and fill the roster with cheap filler players and hope that Tannehill and Wake can carry the team.

 

[DunceKaep]

JS and his crew have done an exceptional job. Yes they have.
It appears that people that don't understand the CAP believe the Seahawks will be in trouble next year.
With all the "how are they going to keep all those players" talk. Us Hawk fans KNOW it won't be a problem NEXT season.

Now, the year after, let's see what magic JS and his crew can work. I expect it to work out fine.
Go Hawks.

 

[Pattersonca65]

What do you mean " we have an owner willing to spend more"? Is your owner allowed to spend more than any other team? I had always thought the NFL salary cap helped all teams spend basically the same amount of which each player had varing amounts

The word spend is alittle misleading. Each team is governed by the same salary cap amount but the actual amount of cash spent each year varies depending on how much is deferred. By using signing bonuses or incentives, teams are really just borrowing against the future and if not careful, a team can get in real trouble by continually deferring salary cap costs into the future. This is especially true if a team piles up alot dead money, salary cap costs for players no longer on the team.

 

[DunceKaep]

The point of the thread was......

Do some GM's manage the CAP way better than others?

I truly believe that JS, with his CAP knowledge, saved the Seahawks.
Look up the stats, before his arrival, one of NFL's oldest teams, now, SB Champs and one of the youngest rosters in the league, and NOT in CAP jeopardy NEXT season.

After NEXT season, we shall see.

 

[seahawksfan234]

It is clear that total understanding of the CAP, and how to move money around, including what situation you are currently in and structuring future values and lengths are just as important as great coaching.

Now that I have made my "Captain Obvious" statement, I still think it is overlooked by some GM's. Now, no GM ignores it, that's not what I'm saying, I'm saying not all GM's are even close to equal in the CAP knowledge. Each organization has a GM and a few guys that I'm sure work on CAP numbers constantly.

I just think some organizations took it more serious than others and that's about to change a bit now.
I believe the superior CAP knowledge of a few have gotten the attention of the others.


^^^^******* past Seahawk GM Tim Ruskell, the way he operated, I'm sure he took the advice of mock drafts everywhere, especially Kiper and McShay. ie Aaron Curry. Thank you to the new Seahawk Leaders.

Go Hawks.

Hate to change the subject, defend Ruskell and be Captain Contradiction, but I don't think there is one person who saw the Aaron Curry thing happening. I watched a ton of his college film and there was nothing to indicate he would ever be below average in the NFL. That was simply a case of bad luck.

 

[DunceKaep]

I think AC made have been a product of too many people praising him.
AC was a 2-Star athlete as a HS recruit. I know that might mean little, but maybe they were correct?
It appears they were. It is obvious that Curry was not able to GRASP the concept of NFL D, plus he had no desire.

Those aspects should have been detected.

 

[seahawksfan234]

The point of the thread was......

Do some GM's manage the CAP way better than others?

I truly believe that JS, with his CAP knowledge, saved the Seahawks.
Look up the stats, before his arrival, one of NFL's oldest teams, now, SB Champs and one of the youngest rosters in the league, and NOT in CAP jeopardy NEXT season.

After NEXT season, we shall see.

I think that what the Seahawks FO has excelled at most is their late round draft picks. Guys like Chancellor, Sherman and Wilson were not pure luck but guys that the Seahawks clearly had picked out that they liked. They pick out guys they like and take them regardless of what the consensus is on them. Take one of their failed picks for example, James Carpenter. Sure he has been terrible at the NFL level but what you've got to admire is that the Seahawks were not afraid to select him in the 1st round, he fit their mold of what they wanted and took him despite being graded as a mid to late 2nd round pick.

As far as cap management goes, I've liked how they have spent their money. There is a strong case to be made that Zach Miller, Sidney Rice and Percy Harvin are all overpaid but what did each of those guys have in common when they signed their contract? They were all in their mid to early 20s. The Seahawks have not made any gambles as far as giving older players large contracts (See Mario Williams, a guy a lot of CBSers wanted).

The Seahawks have built a model that is highly sustainable. They build their team through the draft and extend the players that work out and spend the excess on young free agents who can be part of a short term improvement and a long term investment.

 

[seahawksfan234]

I think AC made have been a product of too many people praising him.
AC was a 2-Star athlete as a HS recruit. I know that might mean little, but maybe they were correct?
It appears they were. It is obvious that Curry was not able to GRASP the concept of NFL D, plus he had no desire.

Those aspects should have been detected.

It went undetected probably due to the fact that in college he displayed excellent athleticism and football instincts in a system that just let him go out there and play. IMO Curry's three biggest struggles were his inability to get off of blocks in the NFL level (perhaps he relaxed on his conditioning after getting an NFL contract), his inability to grasp NFL defense (as you mentioned) and the fact that he relied too much on his athleticism (he overran plays and took horrible angles frequently).

Things like that are difficult to detect since he didn't display any of that in college. The only real concern about Curry coming out of college was if he could rush the passer, it turns out that was the least of the real concerns.

A lot of people saw him as a Keith Bulluck type, not necessarily a superstar pass rusher like DeMarcus Ware, but a guy who (it was believed) had a minuscule chance of busting and a high probability of being an outstanding sideline to sideline strongside linebacker.

 

[DunceKaep]

234, I agree,
JS has way more talent evaluation skills and CAP management personal that TR ever had,
THAT. Is what made us get better each year,

and who would have thunk it would have only taken 4 years.

We went from bottom feeders to SB Champs.

AND, it took PC, JS and PA to make it happen. The perfect storm.

 

[WizardHawk]

Seattle Seahawks have savvy to sustain in NFL's salary-cap era - NFL.com

Show me a franchise whose leaders perpetually whine about cap concerns, and I'll show you a franchise that is pretty far from elite. Such a state of affairs usually means that the owner isn't as financially committed to the cause as some of his/her gung-ho peers (such as Allen, who speaks sparingly but carries a big overhead), or that the GM and coach are making excuses for the team's subpar performance -- or both.

Here's the dirty little secret about the salary cap and the modern NFL: Good organizations figure out a way to manage the cap, even when the numbers present significant challenges. Creativity, flexibility and an ability to make tough decisions go a long way toward alleviating cap issues, and engendering a positive, winning environment can persuade players to take less than market value.

HowStuffWorks "How does the NFL's salary cap work?"

Because salaries have continued to grow at a rate outpacing the salary cap, teams have found ways to circumvent the cap. Signing bonuses don't count toward a team's cap for a given year. A player who receives a signing bonus gets more money for that year than his recorded "salary," leaving more room in the cap for the other players.

Those who believe all money is equal fail to understand how signing bonuses work.

Say, for example, a player wants a seven-year, $60-million contract. Let's say that the owner decides to give that player an $11-million signing bonus, which is all paid out in the first year but gets factored into the cap as prorated over the course of the seven-year contract ($11-million / 7 years = $1.57-million per year). Most NFL contracts are "back-ended" -- most of the base salary is located in the last two or three years of the contract. If we suppose that our player's contract is structured so that he has a base salary of $2-million the first year, with higher base salaries in the final two years of the contract, the $13-million (base salary + signing bonus) paid out in the first year appears as $3.57-million to the cap! The advantage of signing bonuses for the owner is that he now has more money to spend under the cap. This is how the Washington Redskins ran up a total payroll of $92.41-million in the 2000 season when the cap was $67-million. The advantage for the player is that all signing-bonus money is guaranteed to be paid, whereas an NFL contract is not guaranteed.
There are drawbacks to signing bonuses for the owner, however. Because the bonus is guaranteed to the player, if the player is released, traded or waived, all of the bonus money that was being prorated throughout the length of the contract is accelerated to the present year. So, if our team released its star player after the third year of his contract (before June 1) for whatever reason, the entire remainder of the bonus, almost $6.3-million, will have to count toward the cap the next year (if the team releases the player after June 1, only the yearly $1.57-million will count the next year, and the remainder will count the subsequent year).

And I don't know if it is in the current CBA or not, but it used to be if you could get a veteran to take the league minimum that you would get a bonus discount against your cap meaning you only counted half of their actual salary toward your cap limit. It was meant to help stop teams from dumping otherwise decent veteran players in favor of younger ones that had more long term upside and less hit against the cap.

The CBA changes rules on the cap all the time. Not all money in it is created equal and smart teams work around it with the signing bonus and deferrals.

 

[WizardHawk]

Again, for those that want to give Seattle's front office credit for their work under the salary cap, it's too soon to say if this team can do so after all these rookie contracts are up. What they have done well so far is in player acquisition and development. They basically turned over the entire team in 3 years and stocked it with a lot of rookie contract players and won the SB with it. That's not a recipe most teams can follow.

The test of their ability to field a winning team and face cap concerns comes as more of those rookie contracts turn to veteran contracts. What they have going for them now is they are a proven winner and just like NE, and a handful of other teams players consider able to reach the SB, they are more able to get FA's to come here for lessor contracts and possibly able to get our own FA's to stay home cheaper. Still, this current team hasn't had to worry about the cap and in fact probably had to worry more about the floor as there is a minimum they can spend too.

 

[cdumler7]

Again, for those that want to give Seattle's front office credit for their work under the salary cap, it's too soon to say if this team can do so after all these rookie contracts are up. What they have done well so far is in player acquisition and development. They basically turned over the entire team in 3 years and stocked it with a lot of rookie contract players and won the SB with it. That's not a recipe most teams can follow.

The test of their ability to field a winning team and face cap concerns comes as more of those rookie contracts turn to veteran contracts. What they have going for them now is they are a proven winner and just like NE, and a handful of other teams players consider able to reach the SB, they are more able to get FA's to come here for lessor contracts and possibly able to get our own FA's to stay home cheaper. Still, this current team hasn't had to worry about the cap and in fact probably had to worry more about the floor as there is a minimum they can spend too.

2015 is definitely going to be an interesting year for Seattle. Pretty much what they do in that season will be a huge indicator in my opinion of whether they can be a team that stays at the top for years to come or slowly fades back to the pack like most teams do. Like you said rookie contracts right now have made life pretty easy to be able to bring in some more expensive Free Agents to help put the team over the top like all the pass rushers this past year plus signing Percy Harvin. Once Wilson, Sherman, Thomas, and others start getting veteran contracts those extra players that not only bring in starters but add great depth become a little harder to accomplish. Very much looking forward to see how the Seattle Front Office handles everything. Especially if they say win the Super Bowl or at least get back to it next year and all those players pretty much drive up their cost that much more.

 

[WizardHawk]

2015 is definitely going to be an interesting year for Seattle. Pretty much what they do in that season will be a huge indicator in my opinion of whether they can be a team that stays at the top for years to come or slowly fades back to the pack like most teams do. Like you said rookie contracts right now have made life pretty easy to be able to bring in some more expensive Free Agents to help put the team over the top like all the pass rushers this past year plus signing Percy Harvin. Once Wilson, Sherman, Thomas, and others start getting veteran contracts those extra players that not only bring in starters but add great depth become a little harder to accomplish. Very much looking forward to see how the Seattle Front Office handles everything. Especially if they say win the Super Bowl or at least get back to it next year and all those players pretty much drive up their cost that much more.

If they make it back (long shot) some individuals might be worth more, but again they can also attract more willing to take cuts to play for a winner. The key is they have also proven the ability to find gems in the lower rounds and turn them into stars. I think this is a much more difficult thing to do than juggle cap space. Combine both of those over a long run and you build a force to be reckoned with.

 

[Pattersonca65]

If they make it back (long shot) some individuals might be worth more, but again they can also attract more willing to take cuts to play for a winner. The key is they have also proven the ability to find gems in the lower rounds and turn them into stars. I think this is a much more difficult thing to do than juggle cap space. Combine both of those over a long run and you build a force to be reckoned with.

I think that is the key to staying competitive in the NFL. No susccessful team in the NFL can keep its entire team intact. The Seahawks aren't any different. When WIlson gets his new contract and the others, decisions will be made about who goes and who stays. That is how it goes and that is how the NFL wants it. New England is probably the best example of a team that has managed its cap well over the years and has remained competitive for a long time.