Rob Report Back

[octagondd]

I never played, so pardon my ignorance Ospreys. What is 21, 22 and 11. I assume it has to do with the backs or receivers on the field.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

I wish Bevell took your words of wisdom in the playoffs and I agree.

Sando needs to run a report on sets with MRob in the backfield. Then compare how many rushes vs passes and the effectiveness of each. Most, like 95% of MRobs sets are 21 or 22. Time for 11.

The great thing about our O, is that we don't have to establish the run to set up play action. We've already established the rushing threat the past 2 seasons and D-Co's game plan for that aspect.

Do we have a true FB? How many TE's do we have? 2. ??? What is that telling our fans? I know what it's telling me.

This is an extreme case of alignment 11. It's coming.... Can't wait

Crossing my fingers.

 

[octagondd]

I just saw the A-11 website. Very intriguing. Different looking, but dangerous with the right personnel.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

Man really like Mike Rob... One of my favorite players on the team.. SUCKS that they cut him but hopefully they resign him.... He's got game left in him for sure... I know he's getting up there a little but his play was not showing any signs of that ... Mike Rob don't leave us!!!!

 

[SeattleOspreys]

I just saw the A-11 website. Very intriguing. Different looking, but dangerous with the right personnel.

I'm not sure what the A-11 scheme is all about.

I do know that a Hawk 11 is the Lynch, Miller, Rice, Tate and Baldwin set. I think I explained it above and it's so versatile when we stick RWill in the gun.

From that set, you can:

1. Run Read option w/ 3 variations. ( hand to Lynch, RWill w/ a keeper or fake and run play action)
2. Run a slight delayed handoff to Beast with Zach coming down to line to blast the DE or LB and open the hole.
3. Run a play action from the gun and find Rice, Baldwin or Tate as part of their route tree.
4. Straight pass with above looks to the 3 Wr's, a delayed screen to Beast or the effective play in the playoffs to Zach. MIller holds a minimal block and then sneaks out of the backfield for a 5 yd pass and yac.

Maybe I'm blowing smoke but this 11 set is so versatile and depends on an intelligent QB, which RWill is.

I believe the sets are Running backs and then TE's. The 11 is Lynch and ZMiller which leaves 3 WR's. If the Hawks want to run a 12 with Willson and Zach, it will still have an 11 look if Willson lines up in the slot. The 21 and 22 are 2 back sets with 2 WR's or 1 WR.

If nothing else, while enjoying the game, we all can check the sets as they break the huddle and view what Bevell is calling. Plus we can get an ideal of what sets are most successful and in what down and distance.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Pete Carroll says the door is open for Robinson to return.

Pete Carroll Show: Door open for Robinson's return - 710sports.com

" "Yeah, that was a big deal to us, and unfortunately, we weren't able to keep Mike at this time," Carroll told 710 ESPN Seattle's "Brock and Danny" Tuesday morning. "Maybe we'll get a chance to get him back somewhere down the road, but at this time that was the way that had to go, and it was very difficult because he's a great kid, he's gonna be a football coach someday. He's a guy that has been in my office a lot, talking about ball and schemes."

". Robinson, 30, was scheduled to make $2.5 million this season and is dealing with an unspecified illness that would have threatened his availability for the start of the the regular season should he have remained on Seattle's roster."

Do not have any idea about this illness, but if Robinson recovers I do believe he'll be back with a more team friendly contract. I'm all for it.

 

[SeattleOspreys]

Pete Carroll says the door is open for Robinson to return.

Pete Carroll Show: Door open for Robinson's return - 710sports.com

" "Yeah, that was a big deal to us, and unfortunately, we weren't able to keep Mike at this time," Carroll told 710 ESPN Seattle's "Brock and Danny" Tuesday morning. "Maybe we'll get a chance to get him back somewhere down the road, but at this time that was the way that had to go, and it was very difficult because he's a great kid, he's gonna be a football coach someday. He's a guy that has been in my office a lot, talking about ball and schemes."

". Robinson, 30, was scheduled to make $2.5 million this season and is dealing with an unspecified illness that would have threatened his availability for the start of the the regular season should he have remained on Seattle's roster."

Do not have any idea about this illness, but if Robinson recovers I do believe he'll be back with a more team friendly contract. I'm all for it.

As long as Bevell doesn't trust him to run fullback dives. MRob may have only run around 15 but that was 15 too many.

I don't want to lose Ware for MRob and a fullback would be axed to bring MRob back. Then you don't bring a 31 yo free agent MRob back for 2014 and then what do you do for fullback? Waste money on a free agent? Draft another FB? Both are a waste of resources.

I'm still in favor of going youth. MRob won't be the difference in us going and winning a SB. It's going to be our pass rush. The big unknown, not some FB, that are going the way of the dinosaur in the NFL.

Hey, we all like MRob and it's hard to see our favorite ballers leave the squad but guys age and don't perform to their capabilities. We were spoiled with Mack Truck. They all don't play at that level to that age.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

As long as Bevell doesn't trust him to run fullback dives. MRob may have only run around 15 but that was 15 too many.

I don't want to lose Ware for MRob and a fullback would be axed to bring MRob back. Then you don't bring a 31 yo free agent MRob back for 2014 and then what do you do for fullback? Waste money on a free agent? Draft another FB? Both are a waste of resources.

I'm still in favor of going youth. MRob won't be the difference in us going and winning a SB. It's going to be our pass rush. The big unknown, not some FBs, that are going the way of the dinosaur in the NFL.

Hey, we all like MRob and it's hard to see our favorite ballers leave the squad but guys age and don't perform to their capabilities. We were spoiled with Mack Truck. They all don't play at that level to that age.

Well I disagree with you. Reading your post the points you are making are:

1) Don't want to lose Ware
2)M Robinson will not be back in 2014, to old and to costly
3)M Robinson won't be the difference in us winning the Superbowl

1) Well I would hate to lose Ware also and there is a chance some team would pick him up for depth. If that happens , so be it. Frankly Ware has not lived up to the" always compete" motto Pete believes in. He hasn't earned the job with his performance on the field. He just hasn't.

2) M Robinson will not be back in 2014.....well not at the rate of pay he's making now, but at a much more team friendly contract he could very well be back in 2014. FB that are good blockers can play well beyond 30.

3) M Robinson will not be the difference in winning the Superbowl. How can you say that? If he picks up a pass rusher and allows Russell to throw a winning TD in the Superbowl he could be critical in winning the Superbowl. Every player counts when your trying to win. M Robinson is the better FB for the Seahawks . He gives them what they need from that position. Good run blocker, good pass blocker and can go out and make a catch to keep the chains moving.

 

[octagondd]

I'm not sure what the A-11 scheme is all about.

I do know that a Hawk 11 is the Lynch, Miller, Rice, Tate and Baldwin set. I think I explained it above and it's so versatile when we stick RWill in the gun.

A-11 is much different and it has been banned in multiple states. Southern California High Schools cannot use it. It basically makes everyone an eligible receiver and the defense has no way to figure out who is eligible. Some sets have a Center and two TE's with Two Qbs and 6 WR/RBs. There are also power formations as well.

Official site of the football A-11 Offense

 

[SeattleOspreys]

Well I disagree with you. Reading your post the points you are making are:

1) Don't want to lose Ware
2)M Robinson will not be back in 2014, to old and to costly
3)M Robinson won't be the difference in us winning the Superbowl

Glad you have an opinion but we disagree which is good. Do you corroborate any of your opinions? I'm about to find out.

1) Well I would hate to lose Ware also and there is a chance some team would pick him up for depth. If that happens , so be it. Frankly Ware has not lived up to the" always compete" motto Pete believes in. He hasn't earned the job with his performance on the field. He just hasn't.

You don't see what I see in Ware and that's apparent. He's a hard nosed tough football player with soft hands and versatile. Where do you get the "has not lived up to the always compete motto". How has he not earned the job with his performance on the field. He just hasn't? Ok. That's your opinion, no problem but no factual basis. It reminds me of the movie A Few Good Men. Demi Moore is in the courtroom and pulls the I object, judge says it's over ruled. She comes back with I strenuously object. He just hasn't reminds me of that. Facts?

2) M Robinson will not be back in 2014.....well not at the rate of pay he's making now, but at a much more team friendly contract he could very well be back in 2014. FB that are good blockers can play well beyond 30.

Of course he could be back. "but" at a much more friendly contract. Glad he's a good blocker but how many plays is MRob on the field for? 30% if that? 20 plays

Yes, I already mentioned that FB's can play into their 30's, thus, the mention of Mack Truck but that's no guarantee. Some do, some don't. I'm going youth here and upside, not a free agent with "no" guarantee to return. I'm taking the guarantee with what you believe is a significant drop off in talent and I don't see the drop off you see.

3) M Robinson will not be the difference in winning the Superbowl. How can you say that? If he picks up a pass rusher and allows Russell to throw a winning TD in the Superbowl he could be critical in winning the Superbowl. Every player counts when your trying to win. M Robinson is the better FB for the Seahawks . He gives them what they need from that position. Good run blocker, good pass blocker and can go out and make a catch to keep the chains moving.

Again, it's your "opinion" that MRob is the better FB. You write as if Ware and Coleman are Matadors back there. Pass Rusher, ole, a free shot at RWilson. Like PC/JS draft, it's about the "incremental" difference in the position is typically how they rate and draft, though CM was a bit of an anomoly. This is a known fact and comment by Pete and John. Not opinion.

As in many analysis I perform, a lot hinges on probabilities and stats. With MRob on the field for a high end 20 plays a game, how many times has MRob picked up a pass rusher / blitzer in passing situations when the guy is only on the field during 22 and 23 play alignments? How many? Far fewer than you "think".

Anything is possible, anything but there will be odds of that happening. MRob isn't a "critical" piece of the offense when Ware will give you similar results and can play and grow for the next 4-5 years. Again, we both are making assumtions there. MRob's a good run blocker and I like his catching ability out of the backfield but I also like the soft hands of SWare. yes, I saw him enough at LSU to forecast what I saw.

Yes, every player counts but the FB is minimal. His FB dive and lack of split second vision was a detrimental play in Atlanta. Missing Clemons was a bigger factor than a limited playing Fullback. I can't remember a FB deciding a SB but I know of many that a doomsday defense, a 46 or bucs won with a pass rush. It's vital. FB's aren't vital.

I'm surprised your eye test doesn't tell you that this season is going to come down to our pass rush. If our pass rush is successful in sacks and hurries, our Hawks will steam roll. If our pass rush struggles, we will blow some games in the 4th. It's not coming down to MRob vs Spencer "matador" Ware.

MRob has a shot at returning. I understand that and wouldn't mind at all. LIke I said, I like MRob but I forecasted whenever this thread started that MRob would be cut and he was. I'm just sharing reasons why I thought he would be cut and reasons why PC released him. (sickness too)

 

[blstoker]

1) Michael Robinson's usage.

Michael Robinson was in on 329 offensive snaps last year (32%). That's more than every other running back not named Marshawn Lynch (Turbin, 224; Washington 59). He was also used on 299 ST plays (70%) which was 3rd on the team (Farwell, 350; Maragos 332). In total, he was used 628 times, which was 10th among offensive players in 2012.

2) Ware

Spencer Ware is probably more athletic, and a more gifted runner, than Robinson. That, unfortunately for Ware, is not the reason the Seahawks put the FB on the field. In 2012, Robinson was only given the ball on 25 times (12 runs; 13 receptions) which amounts to 7.5% of his offensive snaps.

Not only was Ware tentative when lead blocking this pre-season, but many times he just didn't seem to know who he was supposed to block. More than once he busted through the line, got confused on who to block and ended up not blocking anyone.

Ware is still learning the position, it's not as easy as just going through the hole before the RB, there is a job to be done. As he learns, I'm sure he'll get better at it, but that doesn't mean that a few weeks playing FB (and splitting his time at HB at that) are gonna make him pro-bowl caliber. To be honest, Owen Scmidt was a better FB coming out of college, and the only thing positive he's known for in Seattle is bashing his own face in with his helmet.

3) FB usage

If the idea of keeping Ware over Robinson was solely based on Ware being the better runner, then it's off the mark. Trading in 93% of the FB's responsibilities for 7% is coming at the issue all wrong. Even beyond that, with the crowded backfield there may not be enough touches for Lynch, Turbin and Michael, so how is the FB gonna really find room to get his running game on.

4) Coleman

In the end, I doubt that Ware sees much offensive playing time this season anyway, as I expect Coleman to get the FB snaps until/if the Seahawks bring Robinson back.

 

[SeattleOspreys]

1) Michael Robinson's usage.

Michael Robinson was in on 329 offensive snaps last year (32%). That's more than every other running back not named Marshawn Lynch (Turbin, 224; Washington 59). He was also used on 299 ST plays (70%) which was 3rd on the team (Farwell, 350; Maragos 332). In total, he was used 628 times, which was 10th among offensive players in 2012.

2) Ware

Spencer Ware is probably more athletic, and a more gifted runner, than Robinson. That, unfortunately for Ware, is not the reason the Seahawks put the FB on the field. In 2012, Robinson was only given the ball on 25 times (12 runs; 13 receptions) which amounts to 7.5% of his offensive snaps.

Not only was Ware tentative when lead blocking this pre-season, but many times he just didn't seem to know who he was supposed to block. More than once he busted through the line, got confused on who to block and ended up not blocking anyone.

Ware is still learning the position, it's not as easy as just going through the hole before the RB, there is a job to be done. As he learns, I'm sure he'll get better at it, but that doesn't mean that a few weeks playing FB (and splitting his time at HB at that) are gonna make him pro-bowl caliber. To be honest, Owen Scmidt was a better FB coming out of college, and the only thing positive he's known for in Seattle is bashing his own face in with his helmet.

3) FB usage

If the idea of keeping Ware over Robinson was solely based on Ware being the better runner, then it's off the mark. Trading in 93% of the FB's responsibilities for 7% is coming at the issue all wrong. Even beyond that, with the crowded backfield there may not be enough touches for Lynch, Turbin and Michael, so how is the FB gonna really find room to get his running game on.

4) Coleman

In the end, I doubt that Ware sees much offensive playing time this season anyway, as I expect Coleman to get the FB snaps until/if the Seahawks bring Robinson back.

Quality post by you! Kudos... I like how you laid everything out and used some corroborating support for all of your opinions. I can also see Coleman getting the starting nod. The reason Ware was used is because he would be our choice of guy to get cut over keeping MRob.

I don't like to be the contrarian here because it appears that I don't like MRob which isn't true. I like MRob.

The purpose of what I was trying to show and not that well, are the reasons I forecasted on August 15th that MRob wouldn't be on this squad. Whether it's 100% injury, we'll find out. For a refresher, see page 1.

Again, a very well done post and one of the better I've read on this forum.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Hey Seattle Osprey,
When it comes to Wares attempt to go from RB to FB. I'll go with a Thomas Jefferson quote
"We hold these truths to be self evident "

 

[SeattleOspreys]

1) Michael Robinson's usage.

Michael Robinson was in on 329 offensive snaps last year (32%). That's more than every other running back not named Marshawn Lynch (Turbin, 224; Washington 59). He was also used on 299 ST plays (70%) which was 3rd on the team (Farwell, 350; Maragos 332). In total, he was used 628 times, which was 10th among offensive players in 2012.

2) Ware

Spencer Ware is probably more athletic, and a more gifted runner, than Robinson. That, unfortunately for Ware, is not the reason the Seahawks put the FB on the field. In 2012, Robinson was only given the ball on 25 times (12 runs; 13 receptions) which amounts to 7.5% of his offensive snaps.

Not only was Ware tentative when lead blocking this pre-season, but many times he just didn't seem to know who he was supposed to block. More than once he busted through the line, got confused on who to block and ended up not blocking anyone.

Ware is still learning the position, it's not as easy as just going through the hole before the RB, there is a job to be done. As he learns, I'm sure he'll get better at it, but that doesn't mean that a few weeks playing FB (and splitting his time at HB at that) are gonna make him pro-bowl caliber. To be honest, Owen Scmidt was a better FB coming out of college, and the only thing positive he's known for in Seattle is bashing his own face in with his helmet.

3) FB usage

If the idea of keeping Ware over Robinson was solely based on Ware being the better runner, then it's off the mark. Trading in 93% of the FB's responsibilities for 7% is coming at the issue all wrong. Even beyond that, with the crowded backfield there may not be enough touches for Lynch, Turbin and Michael, so how is the FB gonna really find room to get his running game on.

4) Coleman

In the end, I doubt that Ware sees much offensive playing time this season anyway, as I expect Coleman to get the FB snaps until/if the Seahawks bring Robinson back.

As mentioned on the previous page, your post is excellent. I had my research assistant do a quick study and this is what he found.

MRob was ranked as the #15 fullback in the NFL and only 16 were rated. It was stated that it's hard to rate MRob as only a fullback because of his overall team contributions which is accurate. Before you laugh at the source, which I have never quoted or linked, it's because they're using an advanced statistical service that I have been educated on, ProFootball Focus.

Here are quotes that you and Harold might find interesting or frankly, surprising because they were to me, especially the pass blocking rating. This is the anti-thesis of Harold's opinion that MRob would be in to pass block for a potential game winning SB td pass by RWill. MRob just isn't in the backfield on enough passing plays that aren't going to him to be valuable or as corroborating support as a RWill protector.

Run Block 16/20

Michael Robinson (6'1", 240 pounds, seven seasons) may not get a lot of credit for the Seattle running game, but consider that Marshawn Lynch regularly leads the NFL in yards after contact. Robinson does a nice job sealing on outside runs, but he’s not strong enough to open consistent holes in the middle of the defense.

Pass Block 11/25

Robinson is rarely kept in to pass protect. That’s because of his ability as a receiver, and because he can be overpowered at the point of impact. Robinson is willing, but he’s not strong enough to stop hard-charging pass-rushers.

Power 14/20

You see much better power from Robinson in the open field as a runner or special teams player than coming from the backfield as a blocker. Being able to generate speed and momentum is key to Robinson’s punch.

The report gave MRob "perfect" scores on fullback speed & hands.

B/R NFL 1000 2013: Top 16 Fullbacks | Bleacher Report

All statistics from Pro Football Focus. Player heights, weights and seasons in the NFL are from NFL.com.

It's been a useful source in corroborating that our receivers are more valued than the 9er's. I had a debate and a guy tried to pull this stat card and buried himself. Good advanced stats @ PFF.


Profootball Focus' grading system has 9 paragraphs. see link below. Here is a snippet of #8.

8 ) How accurate are the Statistics and Grading?

" Our player participation data has been confirmed as being 99 percent accurate, and we firmly believe that we are more than 90 percent accurate in our grading of individual plays. We’ve been commended by NFL players for the accuracy of our grading and told we are “light years” ahead of anything available elsewhere in media circles. "

https://www.profootballfocus.com/about/grading/


Very interesting that MRob was ranked #15 of 16. I think that is low but then, I'm a Hawk fan and get to see his contributions. I'm not sure the data supports some of the up the gut effectiveness that we believe MRob is contributing.

 

[SeattleOspreys]

Btw, I forgot to mention that my research assistant is my kid, who knows as much about football as any forum poster I've read.

He found some interesting data from Field Gulls that supports some Hawk formation alignment in the red zone. ( Field Gulls went 25 instead of 20 yd line). We use alignment 11 quite frequently in the red zone which I love and we went from 50% in 2011 to 70% in 2012 we're in the gun. That's what I want to come out blasting with against Carolina, SF, Rams and Texan.

This data should delineate that MRob isn't in many pass blocking TD pass situations. MRob was on the field for an average of 1 pass play per game when the Hawks were in the red zone, 1 play. Furthermore, 90% of RWill's TD passes were inside the 25 yd line. Let's drop the pass blocking from MRob support, please. 1 advanced service says MRob isn't very good at it and another shows he doesn't even do it when on the field.

In 2012, we ran 8 pass plays from the 21 alignment and 8 pass plays from the 22 alignment of which MRob is often swinging out of the backfield and not blocking a blitzer or DL. That's minimal. Incredibly, RWill had 24 Td's and 0 interceptions from the 25 yd and in. That is flat out amazing.

When you take in all of the contributing statistical data from ProFootball Focus and mix in some Field Gull's offensive alignment numbers with RWill Td's, I think we over estimate MRob's pass blocking opportunities and prowess.

I like MRob and see his contributions as an all around talent and team leader, no doubt, and it wouldn't surprise me to see MRob return if Coleman or Ware "f" it up. If you don't produce, you don't get a roster spot. See Harper moving to SF.

Charting the Seattle Seahawks' 2012 red-zone offense - Field Gulls


Whether you agree or disagree, this information is still educational, especially the field gulls and if you ever peel a layer off of the ProFootball Focus onion, you'll see some value there, too.

Enjoy and Go Hawks!

 

[SeattleOspreys]

Hey Seattle Osprey,
When it comes to Wares attempt to go from RB to FB. I'll go with a Thomas Jefferson quote
"We hold these truths to be self evident "

The kid is a rook and is learning both positions. He may not make it but give him a chance to absorb the playbook while Coleman gets reps and MRob gets well.

I've seen enough of Ware at LSU and in minimal Hawk games that reminded me of an all time Hawk Rb.
The guy could take a screen pass and somehow go 70 yds for a TD, could block and run despite not looking overly fast.

I like Ware's upside and he's just a backup at this point anyway. I see something, you don't. It's all good but a few pre-season games doesn't make anything truth or self - evident... The only truth is that MRob didn't make the 53 man roster.

Ware played some solid football a few years back blocking for Steven Ridley. I'd like to see more and maybe we will and maybe we won't. Again, it's not MRob hate, it's that I thought MRob would NOT make this roster and at this juncture, he didn't. It may change when MRob's leadership and all around skills are missed. PC/JS will re-evaluate in a couple of weeks. May the best man win along with our Hawks on Sunday!!!

Enjoy your weekend.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

I'll plead guilty to getting overly attached to veterans who have been solid contributors over the few years, especially those that do the things that provide very little glory, such as blocking and playing special teams. MR doing the real Rob Report makes it even harder.
I remember being concerned when the Seahawks let the Heater walk. I thought that it would be wiser to at least see if the rookie they drafted could do the job. Well that turned out just fine for the Seahawks.
So at the end of the day I'm sure that JS/PC know what they're doing. So it's all good.

By the way I don't dislike Ware or think he'll be a wash out. I actually thought he had a shot at winning the FB job when he got drafted, but he doesn't look ready for that job yet IMO.

 

[Mr. Tacoma]

Don't get too excited but there's a new Rob Report out.

It's all Moffitt in Denver's locker room. I don't think Mike Rob was even there and I must say, our locker room is a lot more fun. Moffitt keeps mentioning Seattle though. Worth checking out.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7967fNIwG8U&feature=c4-overview&list=UUtblLfYa5QmFUndxGGdp24g]GoPro: RealRobReport (Denver Broncos Edition) w/ John Moffitt - YouTube[/ame]

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

Rob's back!!! BOOM SHAKALAKALAKA