Reds Christmas gifts

[Redsfan1507]

Wishing our Reds recieve some needed gifts this Holiday Season...

I hope Joey Votto gets a smile. The dude is pretty grim most of the time for a pre-prime guy that makes a ton if money and won a MVP and a gold glove already.

I hope BP gets some appreciation. I didnt want to shoot for humility...It's tough enough being a non-steroidal middle aged middle infielder without falling into the embarrassing situation where you bitch about money as your performance is declining.

I hope Bryan Price finds a playoff series win. It's the only thing that can chase away Dusty's supporters conjuring his ghost of what could have been, should have been, or the cause of no other MLB team offering him a job.

I hope Homer Bailey finds a home in Cincinnati, and stops eyeballing free agency back to Texas like that Red Rider BB gun that might one day put his eye out.

I wish for Johnny Cueto to get good health again. He already has everything else he needs to be the next Reds gazillionaire.

I hope Billy Hamilton gets a sticking full of infield hits to spread over this season. Maybe if he turns them into the equivilent of 75 triples after stolen bases, the Reds will discover it is possible score without a homer, and it's still more exiting than whiffing 15 times a game.

 

[JohnU]

I'm mostly hoping Thom Brenneman cuts back on some of his 456-word pre-positioned comments that lead to a question.

 

[Redsfan1507]

Lol yes, a little larengitis would be welcome from Thom.

 

[chico ruiz]

now i'm not saying that kahn's is a subpar product. of course, i'd like to be a oscar meyer wiener. that IS what i truly want to be. but, the good people at kahn's make one heck of a bologna. not that oscar meyer's has a bad bologna. there is a lot of sodium in lunch meats generally, but i….now i'm not saying that a good hunk of hard salami is bad for anybody. i'm just saying that i can't see how anybody, in good conscience, could put mayonnaise on corned beef. but, on the other side of that coin is the wiener the world awaited. apparently it's one heck of a wurst-brat. i'm not getting down on veal or beef. i've also heard that buffalo is good. in my opinion -and it's only my opinion- pigmeat is……that could be hoof, snout, etc. very little wastage. you know chris? my butthole itches just thinking about it. now, it doesn't itch all the time. more like a slightly uncomfortable burning sensation. now i'm not saying everyone will experience this type of irritation. that's not to say that less chicken choking wouldn't help. my doctor referenced twisting the head off a rabbit. now you can make any animal analogy you want to here. there's not one animal that's any better than another. i believe that. chris? one thing i do know is that when the weather gets hot the doggie gets cooking. i heard that somewhere. now cats are good pets too. don't get me wrong. hamsters, parakeets, turtles are all good too.

 

[JohnU]

I am also reminded of the great catch that Derek Robinson made last year on this long fly ball. I just hope our outfielders are this good again in 2014.

 

[Redsfan1507]

That's the best Thom impersonation I've EVER heard !

 

[eburg5000]

I always thought that catch by Willie Mays was a little over hyped, except for the wall coming up fast. It was no different than we see every Sunday with a wide receiver running under a ball. But that was NY , and that's what they do. I saw Willie make a catch in candlestick against the Reds that I thought was a much better catch. I think he was even knocked unconscious catching it.

 

[JohnU]

the Mays catch is amplified by it being the World Series. The CF in Polo Grounds was like Yellowstone. I think only 1 guy ever hit one out of there in center -- I think it was Joe Adcock.

I remember an old 40-year-old CF named Ted Beard ... I saw him catch a ball in old Victory Field in Indianapolis like that. Except Ted literally outran the ball to a CF that was 490 feet from the plate.

I think the best defensive outfielder in baseball in the 1950s was Al Kaline with the Tigers. You would get arguments on that. Mays was amazing.

 

[Redsfan1507]

Willie was playing in...and went onto what might be the 2nd deck in the shoebox parks today. They missed the best part of Willies play- he turned and fired a strike to 2b- leaving the runner at 1b. It was a heck of a play.

 

[Redsfan1507]

I don't remember Mantle in his prime, so Willie Mays was the best all-around player I ever saw in person. There was nothing he couldn't do- and he had the best postive attitude I ever saw.

 

[chico ruiz]

correct 1507. in general the outfielders from that era in baseball played much more shallow. here's an excerpt from an interview with jim landis that reflects and magnifies how that part of the game has changed.

ML: In 1960 you won your first Gold Glove, the first of four straight. What makes a good outfielder? How much of it is pure ability and how much of it is knowing the hitters, knowing how your pitchers are going to throw to hitters in certain situations and knowing the parks you play in?

JL: "All of that helps, outside of just working hard. You know one of the best pieces of advice I ever got was from our trainer. He told me to stay relaxed by looking up at the sky between pitches and when our guy was into his motion, to bend, take two steps forward and move to the ball. That advice made me get great jumps on balls that were hit. You also had to stay on your toes."

ML: Defensively Jim a lot of baseball people said you were as good defensively as Mantle or Mays. Pretty high praise isn't it?

JL: "When I actually played I really didn't hear much of that. Later on though I'd read things or hear things along those lines. I know the Yankees and Casey Stengel said some nice things like ‘I know that kid in Chicago would turn triples into doubles and doubles into singles.'"

 

[JohnU]

Paul Blair, who recently died, played very shallow.

Bizarre configuration of Polo Grounds affected play because corner outfielders didn't play the shallow lines and were bunched more toward center. All the same, a ball over the CF head was a sure triple.

I always thought Stubbs should play shallow. He is much better retreating than charging.


Jim Landis was one of the best.

 

[Redsfan1507]

I was a catcher-not bragging(maybe a little) that had 1 PB in 3 years of high school, 1 in a year of college, and 1 in 2 years of minor league ball. I also played some 1b and pitched, but was a terrible OF- I just didnt judge the ball on the run that well- I ran pretty bad, but that wasn't the biggest issue- I got a tip that helped- a bit obvious in retrospect, but sonething I didn't know- to keep your neck stiff while running...duh. Great OF get great jumps and can outrun the ball. I could do neither.

 

[JohnU]

I think I read a few years ago that Bryce Harper had to learn to run with a stiff neck. He was bobbing up and down and losing track of the ball. So, yeah ... even the kids in the bigs get away with bad mechanics if they can hit.

 

[Redsfan1507]

Bryce has 5 tools- I always had a flat tire, and didnt learn to hit the breaking ball until I was so beat up I couldn't drive it after I could hit it . Catchers that can really run usually find another position- Harper and Biggio are good examples. Joey Votto could run but couldn't throw-making him a 1b. Lot of people don't like Harper because of the attention he's gotten so early, but the kid has serious tools. He could be a great one. He's got quick hands and strong forearms. He may not hit .300, but is a 30/30 threat, and he's got a plus arm. He's old school hard nosed, and I like that.

 

[Redsfan1507]

You don't have to be as great an OF in a small park, IMO. Jay Bruce gets a good jump for a RF, and has a great arm, but in a big park, I don't think he might hold up with say, Roberto Clemente or Kaline or Mays. Dave Parker had a cannon arm, too. Ken Griffey, Jr. (early in Seattle) was a Mays-like CF, in a smaller park. I think the small parks hide some gifts- like an OF arm, and prioritize some not so gifted tools like HR power, that wind up costing mere mortals in bigger parks, where they usually only display warning track power. Bruce can hit HR in any park, BP not so much. Mays could beat you with a catch, a throw, a stolen base and a 500 ft. homer...sometimes, all in the same game.

 

[chico ruiz]

very good discussion to be had here. i think we're living in a period of baseball renaissance. anyway, i sure hope so. i love watching good defensive play and execution. we could start a entire new thread on post-steroidal tendencies. if you guys get a chance in 2014, and you have the option, watch the rays play as much as you can. this is an excerpt from may 8, 2012:

According to Baseball Info Solutions' John Dewan, the Rays have already "saved" 28 runs this season; not all of them via the shifting, but generally speaking. Last year they saved 85 runs, tops in the majors. That's a huge number of runs, by the way; remember, for every 10 runs, you win another game. On the other hand, according to Baseball Prospectus's park-adjusted defensive efficience (PADE) -- essentially, how often the defense turns batted balls into outs -- the Rays ranked first (by a million miles) in 2011 and second in 2010.
this is a reds board, so i won't belabor this. but, it is astounding that tampa bay could compete and contend in the american league east every year since 2008. it goes beyond maddon's shifts. it has been, in no small measure due to emphasis on defense, speed, and a very aggressive approach to the game. every single game.

 

[Redsfan1507]

No argument on the Rays D impacting the W-L. I'm not a consistent believer in Maddon's offensive (pun intended) philosophy, but he doesn't have that many offensive tools to work with there. He's done pretty well using what he has though- pitching and defense go a long way. You have yo pitch to that shift, too.

I was taught in building a winner, you first have to prioritize not beating yoursèlf...then all you have to do is out score the other team. The Reds inability to grasp that has been the source of some of my frustration with them- not that they are a bad defensive team, at all...they do beat themselves too much in situational play, baserunning and plate philosophy though.

Im a fan of great defense, stingy pitching, and making the opposition do things they don't want to do as much as possible. Maybe that why I'm hoping Hamilton survives- the opposition sure doesnt want to have to deal with him on the bases with guys like Votto and Bruce at the plate in that small park.

 

[JohnU]

I suppose there's the theory about winning the inning and what doesn't always happen.

A bit of math. If every guy in a regular 8-man lineup (no pitchers) would get 2 more hits per week each ... that's 416 hits more ... and the team batting average from last year would go from .249 to .286. That's 2 hits per week over a season for the lineup (or 2 more times on base, doesn't have to be a hit).


Walking the 8 hitter in the lineup with 2 outs brings up the 9 hitter, who has to bat. The trick is to not turn over the lineup to give the leadoff guy 5 plate appearances. There's a reason he's the leadoff guy. Walking ANY-body helps churn the lineup. The Reds didn't churn enough last year, and didn't score as much as a result.


Even going to full counts on a couple of guys suggests to the umpire that you can't command your pitches ... not likely you'll get the corners in the 6th inning when you are up to 98 pitches.

Doubles that should be singles, runners at the corners instead of 1st and 2nd ... the teams that win 16 games a month take care of those details. That stuff isn't easy for the fans to pinpoint but if you notice every inning, something happens that modifies the next inning.

That's kind of what baseball is about and why we like it. It's also one of the reasons why it's hard to explain to a non-fan ... the parts of baseball that you just notice are not always the parts that are so obvious.