Read Option: Days are numbered?

[SeattleOspreys]

I'd agree that Roman and Harbaugh get some credit for educating Kaepernick on how to audible, as for the split second decisions, I didn't see that weakness so much in the games I saw of him, but even if it were true, I would say that when kaepernick has 1/2 of a season, and when he started he had a different situation than Wilson --- Harbaugh did not keep him on a tight leash at all (unlike the first half of the season where Carroll had a tight reign over Wilson) --- and keep in mind this is not a knock on Wilson or Carroll at all, I'm just saying Kaep was thrust into the starting role in the middle of the season and there was no way they could just slowly let him adjust, he had to master the complex playbook immediately (and Harbaugh/Roman's playbook with all the different formations is very complicated), I would expect a few hiccups along the way -- it doesn't mean he is a poor decision maker, it just means he was a rookie.

Let's not gloss over the fact that Kaep had 2 camps, 2 pre-seasons and we'll say many reps
because he's a Harbaugh draft selection, while Smith was not. Add in the fact, that Kaep
racked up 1000 yds every collegiate season running a r/o / pistol variation that was easy
to implement because Kaep was already familiar with it. Will all of that experience and being
with Harbaugh for 2 years, NOT a rookie, he could do more from jumpstreet.

RWill, on the other hand, had some ota's, initially split reps with 3 QB's and didn't really have
his coming out party until week 3 of the pre-season. Plus, RWill never ran any variation of the
read option at NCST or Wisconsin.

RWill is extremely intelligent to learn a whole Wisconsin playbook over the summer and be so
effective and after borrowing the r/o from the skin's, execute the system in Seattle.

I don't like RWill running from it because of the potential to be blindsided. I don't mind Rwill
scrambling because he has a full view of the field and will look to throw first, then run.

Kaep looks to run first and then throw. You can't say Kaep was a rookie because he'd been
there a good 18 months and knew the variation. It doesn't mean Kaep has poor
decision making but from what I saw, his decision making is below RW's.

i.e. Throwing across his body in attempt to squeeze it into Moss leaving Sherman to
easily jump that route for a pick in the endzone. Rocket arm Qb's and Kaep has a rocket
will make decisions they shouldn't because they believe they can squeeze the ball into
tight windows. (i.e. Brett Favre)

 

[Jikkle]

Let's not gloss over the fact that Kaep had 2 camps, 2 pre-seasons and we'll say many reps
because he's a Harbaugh draft selection, while Smith was not. Add in the fact, that Kaep
racked up 1000 yds every collegiate season running a r/o / pistol variation that was easy
to implement because Kaep was already familiar with it. Will all of that experience and being
with Harbaugh for 2 years, NOT a rookie, he could do more from jumpstreet.

RWill, on the other hand, had some ota's, initially split reps with 3 QB's and didn't really have
his coming out party until week 3 of the pre-season. Plus, RWill never ran any variation of the
read option at NCST or Wisconsin.

RWill is extremely intelligent to learn a whole Wisconsin playbook over the summer and be so
effective and after borrowing the r/o from the skin's, execute the system in Seattle.

I don't like RWill running from it because of the potential to be blindsided. I don't mind Rwill
scrambling because he has a full view of the field and will look to throw first, then run.

Kaep looks to run first and then throw. You can't say Kaep was a rookie because he'd been
there a good 18 months and knew the variation. It doesn't mean Kaep has poor
decision making but from what I saw, his decision making is below RW's.

i.e. Throwing across his body in attempt to squeeze it into Moss leaving Sherman to
easily jump that route for a pick in the endzone. Rocket arm Qb's and Kaep has a rocket
will make decisions they shouldn't because they believe they can squeeze the ball into
tight windows. (i.e. Brett Favre)

Kaepernick to me was still more raw than Luck, RGIII, and RW even in his second season. There was a reason someone with his physical skill set was taken in the 2nd round with 5 (I think) QB taken ahead of him.

My take on Kaepernick is he just needs reps. He's shown a steady progression since he's come into the league and there is nothing to suggest he won't keep progressing but like any young QB he just needs live in game reps to continue to improve.

I think he has the highest upside of the young QBs and whether he hits that ceiling or not is something that remains to be seen as of now.

 

[SeattleOspreys]

Kaepernick to me was still more raw than Luck, RGIII, and RW even in his second season. There was a reason someone with his physical skill set was taken in the 2nd round with 5 (I think) QB taken ahead of him.

My take on Kaepernick is he just needs reps. He's shown a steady progression since he's come into the league and there is nothing to suggest he won't keep progressing but like any young QB he just needs live in game reps to continue to improve.

I think he has the highest upside of the young QBs and whether he hits that ceiling or not is something that remains to be seen as of now.

I liked Kaep coming out of Nevada. It may not have been the best comparison because Randall Cunningham was a flexible gumby but that is who I compared Kaep to in my write up. I saw a few games including the SR home game with his adopted parents.

He's a good football player. You want physical tools but give me intelligence, instincts with solid physical skills and you have a QB I want = Russell Wilson.

Kaep may have the highest upside. That's all in the eye of the beholder and subjective. From all
reads, both squads like their QB's and that's all you want as a fan.

September 15th can't get here soon enough and no, that's not the only game as the SB is the
focus, but it's an early season statement game for both squads.

The other game I'm really looking forward to is our early season trip to Houston to play the Texans.
Early start , road test game against the 2nd most talented squad in the AFC. later

 

[yossarian]

Let's not gloss over the fact that Kaep had 2 camps, 2 pre-seasons and we'll say many reps
because he's a Harbaugh draft selection, while Smith was not. Add in the fact, that Kaep
racked up 1000 yds every collegiate season running a r/o / pistol variation that was easy
to implement because Kaep was already familiar with it. Will all of that experience and being
with Harbaugh for 2 years, NOT a rookie, he could do more from jumpstreet.

RWill, on the other hand, had some ota's, initially split reps with 3 QB's and didn't really have
his coming out party until week 3 of the pre-season. Plus, RWill never ran any variation of the
read option at NCST or Wisconsin.

RWill is extremely intelligent to learn a whole Wisconsin playbook over the summer and be so
effective and after borrowing the r/o from the skin's, execute the system in Seattle.

I don't like RWill running from it because of the potential to be blindsided. I don't mind Rwill
scrambling because he has a full view of the field and will look to throw first, then run.

Kaep looks to run first and then throw. You can't say Kaep was a rookie because he'd been
there a good 18 months and knew the variation. It doesn't mean Kaep has poor
decision making but from what I saw, his decision making is below RW's.

i.e. Throwing across his body in attempt to squeeze it into Moss leaving Sherman to
easily jump that route for a pick in the endzone. Rocket arm Qb's and Kaep has a rocket
will make decisions they shouldn't because they believe they can squeeze the ball into
tight windows. (i.e. Brett Favre)

Ok, the two camps, etc., were with Alex Smith as the entrenched starter, who gets the most reps, I said that this was not a knock on Wilson, and you are just plain wrong about Kaep looking to run first. He ran in the Green Bay game because that was the good play, in Atlanta I think he ran once, most of the games he he won on his arm, not his legs. Both quarterbacks are intelligent, Kaepernick was recruited by Ivy League schools and had a stellar academic record at Nevada. Again, I said the things I said not to knock Wilson, just to point out that Kaepernick does not have a "decision making" problem, and even if he did it was entirely understandable given that he didn't even start until the middle of the season. You can have all the training camps you want, it probably is not the same as being in the game and having to make a decision on the fly with 60,000 fans screaming. This next year Kaepernick will have the benefit of a full training camp as the starter, Roman and Harbaugh will have had an offseason to tool their offense to Kaepernick's strengths, he'll be fine.

 

[SeattleOspreys]

Ok, the two camps, etc., were with Alex Smith as the entrenched starter, who gets the most reps, I said that this was not a knock on Wilson, and you are just plain wrong about Kaep looking to run first. He ran in the Green Bay game because that was the good play, in Atlanta I think he ran once, most of the games he he won on his arm, not his legs. Both quarterbacks are intelligent, Kaepernick was recruited by Ivy League schools and had a stellar academic record at Nevada. Again, I said the things I said not to knock Wilson, just to point out that Kaepernick does not have a "decision making" problem, and even if he did it was entirely understandable given that he didn't even start until the middle of the season. You can have all the training camps you want, it probably is not the same as being in the game and having to make a decision on the fly with 60,000 fans screaming. This next year Kaepernick will have the benefit of a full training camp as the starter, Roman and Harbaugh will have had an offseason to tool their offense to Kaepernick's strengths, he'll be fine.

You act Like being in the system for 2 yrs was inconsequential = incorrect. My view in run 1st is when each Qbgoes through their progressions. This talk isnt to diminish Kaeps skill set but ya'll act like he was green. He wasn't.

 

[yossarian]

You act Like being in the system for 2 yrs was inconsequential = incorrect. My view in run 1st is when each Qbgoes through their progressions. This talk isnt to diminish Kaeps skill set but ya'll act like he was green. He wasn't.

Not inconsequential, but not a substitute for starting for 8 games or so. You haven't watched enough 49er games if you think he looks to run first.

 

[Rvnight18]

Just observation. RG3 has one of the better arms I have seen in the NFL, and whether read option has staying power or not, I will be very upset with Shanahan if they continue to run it. I firmly believe RG3 could be entirely a pocket passer and never once run and be elite. He can make all the throws and make them all fairly well, and as he continues to improve and develop, he will be hard to stop.

I don't think either Wilson or Kaepernick have that kind of arm. Both are solid, and while I might give a slight edge to kaep in strength (this isn't on measurables, though, just the throws I've seen them make), I believe Wilson is more accurate and that matters more.

Did you watch kaep against the patriots? Just wondering.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Did you watch kaep against the patriots? Just wondering.

 

[RoboticDreams]

What worries me most about the Read/Option is the economic aspect of it.... I've brought it up a few times on ESPN, but the fact remains that all of the read/option, pistol QB's that are successful right now... (RGIII, Newton, Kaep and Wilson) are all playing under VERY team friendly contracts right now.. especially in the cases of Kaepernick and Wilson.

These guys, whether it be from running the Read, or out of the Pistol or whatever other spread offense they are running are averaging 7-8 carries a game. That is a pretty big amount for a QB. However, teams can handle that while the players are in their first contracts under the current CBA. They aren't hamstringing their organizations yet....

But, with the progress of each of them.... they are going to command a MINT for their respective teams during their 2nd contract, and at that point, teams might then have to make the decision, do we continue to risk him getting hurt with the extra carries per game at a much higher cost, or do we risk pulling him out of the offense that made him worth the extra money...

But the old adage still holds true... there are a few great young running QB's... there just aren't any great OLD running QB's.

I tend to agree with you on this subject. RGIII has already shown us what could happen, if you make a mistake and don't get down or out of bounds. It's easy to say that he just need's to get down. That won't guarantee that Kaep, Wilson or RG won't ever try to get a little extra and get seriously injured in the process. It's a risk reward scenario and at some point the risk will catch up to them, if they continue run.

 

[Rvnight18]

Looking through all the numbers, these QBs are so dang close in stats it is ridiculous. Niners will give the edge to kaep, Hawks will give edge to Wilson.

 

[Rvnight18]

And I will say I was mad when Wilson went to the Hawks because I wanted to root for the kid. Now I just can't....

 

[RoboticDreams]

And I will say I was mad when Wilson went to the Hawks because I wanted to root for the kid. Now I just can't....

His douchebag "Wilson-ites" make it impossible to root for him, even verse other teams. Not that I could to begin with but wow, some of his supporters are borderline insane.

 

[WizardHawk]

His douchebag "Wilson-ites" make it impossible to root for him, even verse other teams. Not that I could to begin with but wow, some of his supporters are borderline insane.

First of all why make things personal and use insults again? This was a real conversation about the read zone, not a slam thread against SF. This attitude of your base is getting old very fast. We have some great SF posters come over here regularly and contribute to good conversations and the influx of ESPN'ers are just ruining that.

Second, those kaep-tivated by your QB are as rabid as those who favor Wilson. Why is it bad for people to be excited for players making a difference on their own team?

 

[HaroldSeattle]

His douchebag "Wilson-ites" make it impossible to root for him, even verse other teams. Not that I could to begin with but wow, some of his supporters are borderline insane.

You seem pretty hostile. Your a guess here, try being polite.

 

[RoboticDreams]

You seem pretty hostile. Your a guess here, try being polite.

Look guys, I'm not talking about all Seahawk fans. I'm talking about the guys who worship Wilson. He's just a man. I apologize if I offended anyone. I guess the ESPN hasn't totally gone from me. It was brutal over there between Niners and Hawks trolls.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

If you don't mind me asking, what was or is your handle on ESPN?

 

[RoboticDreams]

I used this one for awhile but before that I was JM8CH10 or variations of the same name.

 

[WizardHawk]

It's all good RD. Just try to let that stuff go and have some real football talk with us.

 

[Warpath]

Film break down of how the threat of the read option neutralizes pass rush.

http://fanspeak.com/washingtonredsk...2.3519339561462402343750#.Ud6rqtWdMqM.twitter

For those who want to argue that this offense will get these QBs killed, when used right it actually PROTECTS them.

I agree with those who would say that these running QBs, RG3 in particular... need to do a better job of protecting themselves when they do run. And that they take on far less punishment on Read option plays than they do when they make off schedule scrambles when there is no designed blocking in front of them. Or take big unexpected hits in the pocket. It's those instances when they are most vulnerable. Not on designed read option plays.

 

[gowazzu02]

His douchebag "Wilson-ites" make it impossible to root for him, even verse other teams. Not that I could to begin with but wow, some of his supporters are borderline insane.

Easy there big fella. I know the trolls on espn can get to you. But this type of post is pretty trollish if you ask me.

Ill just say this. Seattle AND SF have very passionate fan bases that produce an awful lot of trolls. The beauty of this board is they're not allowed.