Rangers/Angels - All-Star Break Edition

[WilltheThrill]

I honestly think this team has undergone a culture change within the locker room that has certainly not helped matters any. Time after time during the 2 WS seasons, we heard about what an incredible clubhouse they had... what great camaraderie was present... what leadership and a sense of playing for one another they had. I honestly think there was something to that. They had a great core of leadership in MY, Napoli, Murphy combined with the jokesters in Andrus and Kinsler. It seemed like they had a good balance on those teams that never allowed major lulls like this to happen.

Now I realize that this current mess is mostly due to injuries. But, it does seem like (at least to this outsider), that this team doesn't have much in the way of heart or locker room leadership. And I think that's why we've witnessed such comedic and putrid baseball lately. I could be 100% wrong, but they just don't seem like a very united team. What leaders are there on the whole roster? Andrus and Beltre? Not how I see them. Choo? Darvish? Moreland (pre-injury)?

Some people say clubhouse chemistry and leadership aren't important. But every team that has won the WS over the past several years has had both. Red Sox had the beard thing and vocal leaders in Pedroia and Napoli. STL and SF both had those qualities. Even the hated A's now have a bunch of get dirty hustle rah-rah guys who play for one another. Our team just doesn't feel like a close-knit bunch with a lot of heart, even before most of the injuries.

 

[RevSader]

I honestly think this team has undergone a culture change within the locker room that has certainly not helped matters any. Time after time during the 2 WS seasons, we heard about what an incredible clubhouse they had... what great camaraderie was present... what leadership and a sense of playing for one another they had. I honestly think there was something to that. They had a great core of leadership in MY, Napoli, Murphy combined with the jokesters in Andrus and Kinsler. It seemed like they had a good balance on those teams that never allowed major lulls like this to happen.

Now I realize that this current mess is mostly due to injuries. But, it does seem like (at least to this outsider), that this team doesn't have much in the way of heart or locker room leadership. And I think that's why we've witnessed such comedic and putrid baseball lately. I could be 100% wrong, but they just don't seem like a very united team. What leaders are there on the whole roster? Andrus and Beltre? Not how I see them. Choo? Darvish? Moreland (pre-injury)?

Some people say clubhouse chemistry and leadership aren't important. But every team that has won the WS over the past several years has had both. Red Sox had the beard thing and vocal leaders in Pedroia and Napoli. STL and SF both had those qualities. Even the hated A's now have a bunch of get dirty hustle rah-rah guys who play for one another. Our team just doesn't feel like a close-knit bunch with a lot of heart, even before most of the injuries.

If you don't think Beltre is a leader in the clubhouse, then nothing I will say to you matters. That camaraderie shit is nothing but that. People get a long great when they win, and not so much when they lose. You watch the Heat sidelines and see those guys acting a fool and celebrating constantly. You gonna sit there and tell me LeBron is a leader? Yeah right....You are projecting on to athletes and it's silly.

 

[WilltheThrill]

If you don't think Beltre is a leader in the clubhouse, then nothing I will say to you matters. That camaraderie shit is nothing but that. People get a long great when they win, and not so much when they lose. You watch the Heat sidelines and see those guys acting a fool and celebrating constantly. You gonna sit there and tell me LeBron is a leader? Yeah right....You are projecting on to athletes and it's silly.

Umm, what? I never said anything about LeBron being a leader. I never said winner=leader. But have you ever considered that playing for one another and team chemistry begets winning and not the other way around?

 

[RevSader]

Umm, what? I never said anything about LeBron being a leader. I never said winner=leader. But have you ever considered that playing for one another and team chemistry begets winning and not the other way around?

I just inferred it from your post that the rah rah guys must be seen as leaders to you.

In high school sports maybe. These are professional players. If they need some cartoon character manager to light a fire under them, they don't belong in the majors.

I don't give a rats ass if they like each other. They suck, because they can't stay healthy and the pitching staff is the worst in the league. Even when they get a lead they cannot hold it. Them liking each other won't affect that in any way shape or form. A guy isn't gonna have better command because he loves his road roommate more on this team than he did on the last.

 

[WilltheThrill]

I just inferred it from your post that the rah rah guys must be seen as leaders to you.

In high school sports maybe. These are professional players. If they need some cartoon character manager to light a fire under them, they don't belong in the majors.

I don't give a rats ass if they like each other. They suck, because they can't stay healthy and the pitching staff is the worst in the league. Even when they get a lead they cannot hold it. Them liking each other won't affect that in any way shape or form. A guy isn't gonna have better command because he loves his road roommate more on this team than he did on the last.

All valid points and I agree with them. But unfortunately there are quite a few guys in the majors who need coddling, who need a fire lit under them, and who need a cohesive locker room to keep them 100% focused and motivated. Those are the same guys who, when things go sour due to injuries, tune out. When there's not a Mike Young or Mark Messier around to motivate them, they regress. I know that sounds pathetic, but it's true. Just look at the way the Rangers are playing now. Yeah they should have a bad record with this makeshift roster. But Yu Darvish is still a top talent. Nick Tepesch is still a decent pitcher. Frasor, Cotts, and Soria are competent relievers. And we've still got 3-4 quality hitters. No way any team with as much talent as we still have should lose 19 of 22, many in blowout fashion with numerous errors. And that's where having a really tight clubhouse with some leadership would put up a fight to this nonsense. To lose would be acceptable given the circumstances. To lose like this though... there is very little focus or effort right now.

 

[RevSader]

All valid points and I agree with them. But unfortunately there are quite a few guys in the majors who need coddling, who need a fire lit under them, and who need a cohesive locker room to keep them 100% focused and motivated. Those are the same guys who, when things go sour due to injuries, tune out. When there's not a Mike Young or Mark Messier around to motivate them, they regress. I know that sounds pathetic, but it's true. Just look at the way the Rangers are playing now. Yeah they should have a bad record with this makeshift roster. But Yu Darvish is still a top talent. Nick Tepesch is still a decent pitcher. Frasor, Cotts, and Soria are competent relievers. And we've still got 3-4 quality hitters. No way any team with as much talent as we still have should lose 19 of 22, many in blowout fashion with numerous errors. And that's where having a really tight clubhouse with some leadership would put up a fight to this nonsense. To lose would be acceptable given the circumstances. To lose like this though... there is very little focus or effort right now.

Since Beltre said publicly he was at fault for the team's poor play he's hit .396/.433/.631 and the team has gone 18-31. It's like that homer to Seager in that Seattle series off Ogando just set this team in a downward spiral.

I think the ERA of the starters the last 11 games is like 10.52. How on earth can you win with numbers like that? Just horrific.

 

[TheRangerDude]

I honestly think this team has undergone a culture change within the locker room that has certainly not helped matters any. Time after time during the 2 WS seasons, we heard about what an incredible clubhouse they had... what great camaraderie was present... what leadership and a sense of playing for one another they had. I honestly think there was something to that. They had a great core of leadership in MY, Napoli, Murphy combined with the jokesters in Andrus and Kinsler. It seemed like they had a good balance on those teams that never allowed major lulls like this to happen.

Now I realize that this current mess is mostly due to injuries. But, it does seem like (at least to this outsider), that this team doesn't have much in the way of heart or locker room leadership. And I think that's why we've witnessed such comedic and putrid baseball lately. I could be 100% wrong, but they just don't seem like a very united team. What leaders are there on the whole roster? Andrus and Beltre? Not how I see them. Choo? Darvish? Moreland (pre-injury)?

Some people say clubhouse chemistry and leadership aren't important. But every team that has won the WS over the past several years has had both. Red Sox had the beard thing and vocal leaders in Pedroia and Napoli. STL and SF both had those qualities. Even the hated A's now have a bunch of get dirty hustle rah-rah guys who play for one another. Our team just doesn't feel like a close-knit bunch with a lot of heart, even before most of the injuries.

I see Beltre as a leader myself but I do agree that the chemistry doesn't seem to be there as much and hasn't for sometime. I also viewed Cruz as a sort of jokester type leader like Andrus and Kins. I agree with Rev that when you are paying these guys this much, chemistry shouldn't matter... I do however, think it does. Guys just play better when they are having fun. Just like people work better when they enjoy their place of employment and their co-workers. I sort of started to worry when we started letting so many of our FA go that we might have been losing one of our more undervalued assets in chemistry.

Also, I worried that it might make some question there own team loyalty. You don't want your guys worried about it they will be traded or re-signed or anything like that- you want there heads in on baseball and winning game. Anyway, that's just my 2 cents for what it is worth.

Crazy that this is record payroll season and we are playing like its one of our worst. Of course much of this is due to injury which you have to admit isn't helping us win or have chemistry either.

 

[WilltheThrill]

Since Beltre said publicly he was at fault for the team's poor play he's hit .396/.433/.631 and the team has gone 18-31. It's like that homer to Seager in that Seattle series off Ogando just set this team in a downward spiral.

I think the ERA of the starters the last 11 games is like 10.52. How on earth can you win with numbers like that? Just horrific.

Agree. I love Beltre and he probably is the lone guy on the whole roster with a set of stones to stand up, be held accountable, and take some action. He's definitely done everything he possibly can. I've just never seen any team quit this badly this soon in the season. Sure, any team which has endured the amount of injuries and bad luck this team has would have every right to be down. But damn, it's like they have no pride. They are booting plays that high school kids could make and not even coming close to competing on most nights. Even the lowly Cubs at least appear as though they belong on the same field as their opponents. The Rangers sure don't. I want to see some personal pride and professionalism at the very least. A sound beating and sweep at the hands of the Astros followed by a 16-5 beating is embarrassing for any ML team, no matter who they have active.

 

[terpsfball09]

i cant freakin wait til the draft next year thatll be so kewl

 

[TheRangerDude]

I'm pulling for the Tigers this year, especially to knock off the hated A's... I hate to say this,it seemed unthinkable at the start of the season, but I would consider keyword is "consider" blowing the team up and starting over. Beltre's talents will continue to diminish and I think Darvish is gone the first chance he gets. I'm saying this because of the long term nature of our teams injuries and the fact that most of the injured players will be a shell of their former selves....( already has happened to Colby). In addition, the team has made lots of bad decisions lately ( not resigning Cruz, passing on Morales at start of FA and a month ago, relying on walking wounded pitchers such as Harrison and Lewis, giving Moreland an everyday position ). To make matters worse, most of our farm talent is in the bottom levels and still a few years away.

The bottom line is very little if anything has panned out for this team lately and I'd be willing to get all the young prospects we can and start over. I don't see this group of guys with casts, gimpy backs, bum knees, and horrible hamstrings winning it all next year. We might be out of luck anyways.... Just look at our division and the A's continue to get stronger.

I think a fire sale could be a mistake. I think with everything we have invested in the team, we have to at least see what we have next year and see what kind of moves we can make in the off season. We really need to build around Yu, Beltre, and Soria IMO but I would be the least objective to trading Soria. Also, if its possible to extend Yu this off season, I think now is the time to go ahead and try and get that done. I'm not too sure how we will rebound but I definitely don;t want to see things blown up just yet. Now, if Fielder can't return from his injury, Holland can't rebound from his injury, and depending on Perez's recovery late next season... I can understand considering it a little more.

 

[TheRangerDude]

Calm down on hitting the reset button. That would not be very prudent. I hardly see how passing on Morales was a mistake given the situation the team was in at the time. Also he's been dog shit in the short time he's been playing, so why even bring him up? And I won't even begin to go through the Cruz stuff again. If he wanted to be a Ranger he would still be one, but he turned down the QO. That's his fault for thinking he would get a multi year deal after his suspension.

And Beltre isn't in some steep MY like decline. He still has a few years of decent production left in him. Also I have no clue what you based the bit about Darvish on at all.

I agree with most of your points but honestly, you have to hand it to Cruz after the season he has put together. He has shown a lot of teams that it was a mistake to not give him multi-year deal. Not only is he on his way to a career season, he is showing flashes of an MVP type one if he keeps this up in the 2nd half. I am sure lots of GMs are dispointed they didn't pursue him harder. They could have gotten a much better deal than they will when he hits the market again next season presuming he stays healthy.

 

[Nightcrawler]

I agree with most of your points but honestly, you have to hand it to Cruz after the season he has put together. He has shown a lot of teams that it was a mistake to not give him multi-year deal. Not only is he on his way to a career season, he is showing flashes of an MVP type one if he keeps this up in the 2nd half. I am sure lots of GMs are dispointed they didn't pursue him harder. They could have gotten a much better deal than they will when he hits the market again next season presuming he stays healthy.

I've heard that when Cruz was making his decision it was between two teams : the Rangers and the Orioles. Nelly wanted to be around guys he knew and was comfortable with. JD disrespected Cruz by low balling him with a 6M a year offer. Cruz quickly joined the O's after that. I'm not saying we would be world beaters this year with Nelly, but the mistake was made because JD greatly overestimated Morelands ability. We quit pursuing a DH because of Mitch, I knew this was a mistake before the season even started. I've noticed that Everytime JD has relied on a player to " step up" to an important role, that player has failed lately ( Moreland, Murphy, Berkman, Profar, Fielder, Harrison, Lewis.) Exceptions are Odor and Soria. Fielder gets a pass because he's been iron man the last few years.

 

[terpsfball09]

why am i the only person who seems excited that, as of now, we have the number one pick next year?? fuck ya man. If you're not gonna make the playoffs, at least give us that. Then, next year, when everyone is back and we're possibly competing, we'll have the first overall pick AND be in contention for a playoff spot..which doesnt happen very often.

 

[WilltheThrill]

why am i the only person who seems excited that, as of now, we have the number one pick next year?? fuck ya man. If you're not gonna make the playoffs, at least give us that. Then, next year, when everyone is back and we're possibly competing, we'll have the first overall pick AND be in contention for a playoff spot..which doesnt happen very often.

I'm liking the prospect of picking #1 overall.

However, I think most people are like me and don't see a contending team next season. First of all, pitching is a HUGE question mark. There's Yu and then a bunch of question marks. Maybe Holland returns and performs, maybe he doesn't. Maybe Perez returns healthy by Spring, maybe not. Maybe they sign a top guy like Scherzer, maybe not. And then there's the bullpen. Who will close games? Will Feliz, Ogando, Ross, and/or Scheppers ever return to being solid bullpen guys? Maybe.

Also, will Profar return healthy and be the great player everyone had such high hopes for? Maybe. Will Fielder return 100% and find his power stroke again? Maybe.

I'm not saying those things can't or won't happen. But that's betting on a LOT of maybe turning into a LOT of yes to label them contenders.

 

[TheRangerDude]

I've heard that when Cruz was making his decision it was between two teams : the Rangers and the Orioles. Nelly wanted to be around guys he knew and was comfortable with. JD disrespected Cruz by low balling him with a 6M a year offer. Cruz quickly joined the O's after that. I'm not saying we would be world beaters this year with Nelly, but the mistake was made because JD greatly overestimated Morelands ability. We quit pursuing a DH because of Mitch, I knew this was a mistake before the season even started. I've noticed that Everytime JD has relied on a player to " step up" to an important role, that player has failed lately ( Moreland, Murphy, Berkman, Profar, Fielder, Harrison, Lewis.) Exceptions are Odor and Soria. Fielder gets a pass because he's been iron man the last few years.

Yeah, I read that Galloway article too, never too sure about his sources either though. If its true, that's we lost him for just $2M, that's a huge shame. I know we were around about capped out when he signed though but if they willing to go up by $6M, why not $8M? It's no secret around here that I'm biased towards the guy. But someone else on here with a source (Terps I believe) had said that we had matched the offer and Cruz went to the O's bc he could play the field. I suppose we may never really know for certain. Either way, I suppose its a dead horse at this point.

I agree, I don't think it would have made a difference in our season because he can't pitch but he would have at least made it a little funner to watch.

 

[TheRangerDude]

why am i the only person who seems excited that, as of now, we have the number one pick next year?? fuck ya man. If you're not gonna make the playoffs, at least give us that. Then, next year, when everyone is back and we're possibly competing, we'll have the first overall pick AND be in contention for a playoff spot..which doesnt happen very often.

Honestly, the first overall pick in the draft is a crapshoot IMO. These guys are so young when you draft them, its really tough to project where they will end up. Not to mention they can get injured. Just never have gotten as excited about the MLB draft, its typically a long time before you see anything out of any of them, if you ever do.

Also, I read an article the other day that mentioned JD hasn't had all that much success with first round picks, or at least that it had been sometime since he had. Although, I will say that even though Smoak hasn't amounted to much, he did get us Cliff Lee which you could argue got us our first WS appearance.

 

[darrylgann]

why am i the only person who seems excited that, as of now, we have the number one pick next year?? fuck ya man. If you're not gonna make the playoffs, at least give us that. Then, next year, when everyone is back and we're possibly competing, we'll have the first overall pick AND be in contention for a playoff spot..which doesnt happen very often.

There better be a David Price out there that we can pin point and draft. Hopefully he won't be some 14 year old with high potential we won't see till 5 or 6 years from now but a 18 year old close to being MLB ready.

 

[terpsfball09]

There better be a David Price out there that we can pin point and draft. Hopefully he won't be some 14 year old with high potential we won't see till 5 or 6 years from now but a 18 year old close to being MLB ready.

I would love a guy that we can develop. We are very good at developing guys, and have shown time and time again that it is one of our strongpoints. However, something we've lacked for a while (besides the last two years) are good draft players. Our good players have been through trade or international sign. So, in saying that, this will be our chance to get a guy who has the potential to be an ace. I would rather not draft a guy, for example, like carlos rodon who looks like a bullpen guy. With the first or second overall pick, you get a future star. tomorrow when i have time ill look at potential guys that'll be there. But with that pick, i dont think you get a guy who will be ready quickly. I think you simply get the best player...period. Whether you think itll take him 2 years, 1 year, or 5 years, i think that should be the strategy. The guy the astros got first this year is going to be a stud, but its gonna take him 3+ years to develop. I'd love a guy like that.

 

[terpsfball09]

Honestly, the first overall pick in the draft is a crapshoot IMO. These guys are so young when you draft them, its really tough to project where they will end up. Not to mention they can get injured. Just never have gotten as excited about the MLB draft, its typically a long time before you see anything out of any of them, if you ever do.

Also, I read an article the other day that mentioned JD hasn't had all that much success with first round picks, or at least that it had been sometime since he had. Although, I will say that even though Smoak hasn't amounted to much, he did get us Cliff Lee which you could argue got us our first WS appearance.

Well, if you look at first round picks in past years, you have more good ones then bad ones. Price, upton, strasburg, harper, cole, mauer, arod, adrian gonz... and then you got guys that the VAST majority of experts and fans are fairly certain will be successful, like appel, correa, and aiken. Scouting has gotten so much better that by the time that the first overall pick comes, they manage to narrow it down to about 2, maybe 3 players IN THE ENTIRE WORLD, that are the best option. No matter who it is, it will be a good player. It will be a guy that the baseball world says "this is a franchise changing player. A multiple all star. A future star." The rest comes to development and the prospect themself.

 

[terpsfball09]

I'm liking the prospect of picking #1 overall.

However, I think most people are like me and don't see a contending team next season. First of all, pitching is a HUGE question mark. There's Yu and then a bunch of question marks. Maybe Holland returns and performs, maybe he doesn't. Maybe Perez returns healthy by Spring, maybe not. Maybe they sign a top guy like Scherzer, maybe not. And then there's the bullpen. Who will close games? Will Feliz, Ogando, Ross, and/or Scheppers ever return to being solid bullpen guys? Maybe.

Also, will Profar return healthy and be the great player everyone had such high hopes for? Maybe. Will Fielder return 100% and find his power stroke again? Maybe.

I'm not saying those things can't or won't happen. But that's betting on a LOT of maybe turning into a LOT of yes to label them contenders.

Ya. Basically, youre depending on like 7 or 8 guys to come back and make you competitive. JD says Perez probably wont be ready until June or July. Prince may be back, maybe not. Derek, ya never know. Profars out INDEFINITELY, so we dont know wtf is going on. Colby sucks. Our bullpen is either traded, or sucks. You're depending on profar, prince, moreland, Holland, Perez, and then some bullpen guys to come back and make you competitive, which is almost unrealistic. We're trying to catch lighting in a bottle for about 8 players... but thats what we do as fans lol. Remember, we also got guys like Odor, Sardinas, Chirinos, Chi Chi, LJ, GALLO, and friends who are getting closer and closer. Plus, we're adding to our amazing farm system with one of the best prospects in the world next year. Nevermind who we'll add this year when we trade 2 or 3 guys. So, as horrific as this season has been, there is a small glimmer of light t the end of the tunnel.