Raiders Fans Going "Full Retard."

[iknowftbll]

Never go full retard.

This is a Super Bowl team.

Best comment:

You're Possibly Right
If we continue to build confidence and grow throughout the season then there is no reason we can’t compete with anyone in the NFL this year. I would give us a 50/50 chance of making it to the Super Bowl. If we are peaking in the 17th week who in the hell would want to play us. Yikes! What I am sure of is that we will be in a position to win 2-3 Super Bowls over the next 7 years. No doubt. If we can do that we will tie the Steelers with 6 Super Bowl wins. Right where we should be…At the top! Rock RaiderNation!!!

Bleeding Silver & Black for more than 40 years!!

by JJ4S&B on Jun 16, 2016 | 9:32 AM reply

 

[Broncosr0k]

Nothing he said is raiders exclusive and zero evidence to back up his argument. If you are peaking in week 17 and are playoff bound of course no one would want to play you. But that goes for anyone.

2-3 SBs in 7 years would be an impressive clip and I am not sure they have the talent. He is not taling into account picking at the end of rounds instead of the beginning in drafts. Nor is he considering that they will have to move on to the cap juggle great teams succeed at. It is one thing to have a shit-ton of cap space going into FA. It is another when all your drafted studs are demanding to get paid.

 

[cdumler7]

Nothing he said is raiders exclusive and zero evidence to back up his argument. If you are peaking in week 17 and are playoff bound of course no one would want to play you. But that goes for anyone.

2-3 SBs in 7 years would be an impressive clip and I am not sure they have the talent. He is not taling into account picking at the end of rounds instead of the beginning in drafts. Nor is he considering that they will have to move on to the cap juggle great teams succeed at. It is one thing to have a shit-ton of cap space going into FA. It is another when all your drafted studs are demanding to get paid.

Exactly! In the next few years they are going to have Carr if he continues to play well demanding top-10 QB money and Mack most likely at some point being the highest paid defensive player in the NFL. WE have seen when teams commit that much money to just 2 players that it becomes extremely difficult to build a deep enough team around those 2 contracts to compete year in and year out.

And like you said much easier when you are picking top-10 every single season in the draft. You get to the end of the rounds and you have to start being much more creative in working to find talent and keep your team competitive.

The other thing is that we have only seen 1 team in a very long time actually be able to put such a run together. They had a HOF QB in Tom Brady, a HOF coach and possibly best ever in Bill Belichick, and one of the richest owners that made contracts a little easier to figure out. Right now the Raiders have none of those. Now given before the Patriots went on their run like they did we didn't know they had any of that other than the owner part but do any of us really think Del Rio is going to become the next Bill Belichick? And while Carr looks like a promising QB do we really think he is the next Brady?

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

What do you need to win a SB?? QB, RB, WRs, OL , Defense right?? What do the RAIDERS need?? Now I'm not saying we will win the SB!! But the NFL is a crazy league, so expect crazy things..

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

What do you need to win a SB?? QB, RB, WRs, OL , Defense right?? What do the RAIDERS need?? Now I'm not saying we will win the SB!! But the NFL is a crazy league, so expect crazy things..

I mean, people that break down football for a living are saying the RAIDERS have one of the best D fronts in football, along with an OL that rivals that of the Cowboys, as well as saying we have a young franchise QB, WR, etc, etc,etc!! So what more do we need according to the experts?? What we need to do is prove it on the field.. So I can see why some fans have that kind of hope.. You would too

 

[iknowftbll]

Nothing he said is raiders exclusive and zero evidence to back up his argument. If you are peaking in week 17 and are playoff bound of course no one would want to play you. But that goes for anyone.

2-3 SBs in 7 years would be an impressive clip and I am not sure they have the talent. He is not taling into account picking at the end of rounds instead of the beginning in drafts. Nor is he considering that they will have to move on to the cap juggle great teams succeed at. It is one thing to have a shit-ton of cap space going into FA. It is another when all your drafted studs are demanding to get paid.

To predict a SB win on the heels of a 7-9 season is asinine enough. The Raiders haven't even shown us they can top .500 in over a decade, forget winning a Super Bowl! To predict 2-3 Super Bowls over the next 7 seasons? That's what you call "full retard."

Now of course, this time of year is the season of hope. And the Raiders DID show some serious improvement from 2014 to 2015. And it IS reasonable to assume the team will progress in JDR's second year with the team. But progress to the degree they win the Super Bowl? Probably not. I can understand any fan's HOPE. But to make it an expectation? Full retard!

Exactly! In the next few years they are going to have Carr if he continues to play well demanding top-10 QB money and Mack most likely at some point being the highest paid defensive player in the NFL. WE have seen when teams commit that much money to just 2 players that it becomes extremely difficult to build a deep enough team around those 2 contracts to compete year in and year out.

And like you said much easier when you are picking top-10 every single season in the draft. You get to the end of the rounds and you have to start being much more creative in working to find talent and keep your team competitive.

The other thing is that we have only seen 1 team in a very long time actually be able to put such a run together. They had a HOF QB in Tom Brady, a HOF coach and possibly best ever in Bill Belichick, and one of the richest owners that made contracts a little easier to figure out. Right now the Raiders have none of those. Now given before the Patriots went on their run like they did we didn't know they had any of that other than the owner part but do any of us really think Del Rio is going to become the next Bill Belichick? And while Carr looks like a promising QB do we really think he is the next Brady?

I've said it a few times and I'll say it again. The Raiders will break their playoff drought in 2016: they'll go 10-6 and I think they'll even win a playoff game. But I think we'll see that 2016 will be the high water mark with Del Rio. His record as a head coach is not good enough to give him the benefit of the doubt. I believe the Raiders will reach the playoffs on the talent of the players alone, but the coaching situation is going to limit them. I could see them going into 2017 with expectations even higher than this year: having won a playoff game and all. Then finishing 7-9 again. Then maybe 9-7 and a WC playoff loss in 2018. Then a could 8-8/7-9 seasons and JDR will be sacked.

What makes my prediction sensible as opposed to the Raiders fan I quoted in the initial post is what I've described is a far more common tale in the NFL than is what he described. A talented roster undermined by mediocre coaches. Hell, the San Diego Chargers experienced this from 2004-2009 when they enjoyed a(n uncommonly by Chargers standards) good run, including finishes of 12-4 (2004), 14-2 (2006), and 13-3 (2009) only to go a collective 0-3 in the playoffs those seasons. Those rosters were all loaded, but coached by mediocre staffs.

And what I've described makes more sense anyway. 31 out of 32 teams will end every season in disappointment. To predict the Raiders revived their franchise over the next couple seasons but still fall short of a deep playoff run is a safe prediction. But 2-3 SBs in 7 years? The Raiders have been playing since 1960 and have scattered 5 over that span. To expect 2-3 in the next 7 years?

That, my friend, is what we call "full retard."

What do you need to win a SB?? QB, RB, WRs, OL , Defense right?? What do the RAIDERS need?? Now I'm not saying we will win the SB!! But the NFL is a crazy league, so expect crazy things..

I mean, people that break down football for a living are saying the RAIDERS have one of the best D fronts in football, along with an OL that rivals that of the Cowboys, as well as saying we have a young franchise QB, WR, etc, etc,etc!! So what more do we need according to the experts?? What we need to do is prove it on the field.. So I can see why some fans have that kind of hope.. You would too

See above. The history of the league is littered with good teams that never go all the way. Right now the Raiders haven't proven a thing. They do have some good pieces but coaching is limited. If I'm right about them the next couple seasons will be little more than a footnote in NFL history: another solid roster but unable to get over the hump. They'll be significant within the Raiders franchise history: The team that broke the playoff drought. But then again, we're talking about a team that has been at best marginally relevant for over 30 years and a worse franchise than the Cleveland Browns for the last 13 years so being significant within Raiders folklore is sort of a "big fish in a small pond." I know a lot of Raiders fans may not see it this way, but around the league so many other teams (including the Broncos) have done so much more since the Raiders were last truly relevant. And as long as JDR is their coach I suspect they'll remain largely irrelevant for the foreseeable future.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Historically similar teams to the projected 2016 Raiders don't typically fare all that much better as opposed to their previous year. Irvin is not a star, Smith is good, not great, etc. Osmele is again good, not a star; and quite frankly I don't think the Raiders needed much help on the O-line to begin with as is. Must not trust Penn I guess. Screams boom/bust type of team to me, imo. It wouldn't take too many injuries to get a scab at one of their outside CB spots and they're in trouble again with their secondary most likely.

With that being said, stranger and more unlikely teams have won the SB before, so I always keep an open mind. The Raiders have proven jack squat in the McKenzie era. Show me- then I'll believe you have a top 10 or 5 QB, a great defense, etc. I have them around 8-8/9-7 with a 2-4 mark in the division cratering them. OOD schedule is favorable, but the division is anything but and it's questionable if they are better than the Broncos or Chiefs.

 

[randymon]

Del Rio will prob be fired by wk 6 after a 1-5 start. Once they can his worthless butt, Raiders under new guidance, will make a good run and might even earn playoff berth. They have a lot of talent on this team but Rio will handcuff them till he's out. Think they have a good future with the right staff. Still, as long as Denver has Elway, the Raiders will have to accept futility in overtaking Denver. That goes for KC and SD as well. Just enjoy a plus .500 " W-L " record for next decade or so , and you guys will be ok.

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

The hate is strong on this board, or maybe it's just FEAR!!

 

[Fountain City Blues]

The hate is strong on this board, or maybe it's just FEAR!!

Well, it's a Broncos board, lol. If I talked about the Chiefs on here, I wouldn't expect a positive response either.

 

[iknowftbll]

The hate is strong on this board, or maybe it's just FEAR!!

Or it could just be practical and fair analysis.

 

[WalkerBoh]

The hate is strong on this board, or maybe it's just FEAR!!

More laughter than fear. After all, it's still Jack Del Rio leading the team. He's definitely a HC that knows how to get the least production out of the most talent......

 

[cdumler7]

More laughter than fear. After all, it's still Jack Del Rio leading the team. He's definitely a HC that knows how to get the least production out of the most talent......

Anybody else like me celebrate when they saw the Raiders hired Del Rio?! Yeah that move alone is why I don't fear the Raiders.

Now the Chiefs and Andy Reid I have a lot more fear for them taking the division from us than the Raiders. Have to prove you can actually have a winning season before you can be taken too seriously in this league.

 

[cdumler7]

Historically similar teams to the projected 2016 Raiders don't typically fare all that much better as opposed to their previous year. Irvin is not a star, Smith is good, not great, etc. Osmele is again good, not a star; and quite frankly I don't think the Raiders needed much help on the O-line to begin with as is. Must not trust Penn I guess. Screams boom/bust type of team to me, imo. It wouldn't take too many injuries to get a scab at one of their outside CB spots and they're in trouble again with their secondary most likely.

With that being said, stranger and more unlikely teams have won the SB before, so I always keep an open mind. The Raiders have proven jack squat in the McKenzie era. Show me- then I'll believe you have a top 10 or 5 QB, a great defense, etc. I have them around 8-8/9-7 with a 2-4 mark in the division cratering them. OOD schedule is favorable, but the division is anything but and it's questionable if they are better than the Broncos or Chiefs.

I still have yet to have a Raiders fan explain to me how Smith, Irvin, and Osmele are for sure great investments when they are coming from very different schemes. I mean this is the very definition when it comes to FA of why we see so many players not play as well with their new team compared to the old. And for the most part FA's are allowed to leave becauase they are not viewed as must sign players by their current team. Seems like more times than not we see a FA really struggle with a new team. It is why we rarely see the teams with the most cap space shine after spending big on other team's players. Winning in FA means very little these days.

 

[randymon]

I just want to say although I'm obviously not a Raider fan but I still don't want to be a jerk and say Rio is going to be good for you guys. It goes against my conscience as a somewhat decent human being. If I was you guys, I would start a petition to have JDR removed before season starts. That way you can at least salvage this season and maybe find a coach like Kubiak that can lead your team in right direction and bring back the team the struck fear into the hearts of those that had television in those days!

 

[Broncosr0k]

Well, it's a Broncos board, lol. If I talked about the Chiefs on here, I wouldn't expect a positive response either.

Well, if you came in respectfully and used good reasoning you would probably find good back and forth sprinkled with a few jabs.

It is just unrealistic to think Del Rio can take a decade long loser and turn them into 2-3 SBs in 7 years. McKenzie might be a great GM that you need for that type of run but Del Rio is not the coach you would need. I also think it will be very tough to keep a great team together. That is why you can see a team do great one season and fade the next.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

I still have yet to have a Raiders fan explain to me how Smith, Irvin, and Osmele are for sure great investments when they are coming from very different schemes.

Some of that is just going to be because quite a bit of that is a crapshoot. Are there some similar principles you can identify with Chiefs DB's and Raiders DB's? Sure, but it's disingenuous to point to where they are the same and ignore where they are not such as in off-man or straight up zone situations. Some of this is complicated by the hybridization of JDR's defense with Ken Norton's defense which draws more from Seattle's cover 3/2 system that has been popular lately. I would bet Smith starts off pretty slow but eventually settles in as decent.

But this is just a roundabout way of saying that teams that add talent from other teams probably aren't perfect fits, and don't usually perform quite like how you expect usually; but they usually trend downwards. Sometimes it's age related decline, sometimes it's injury, or a bad fit. Or a bad scheme altogether.

I mean this is the very definition when it comes to FA of why we see so many players not play as well with their new team compared to the old

I've seen instances where the Raiders run plays on defense (and I think there are a few Raider articles out there that cherry pick these snaps) that'll work perfect for Smith, but yeah, in his case, it'd be pretty dishonest not to bring up the off-man/zone scheme the Raiders run as compared to what the Chiefs have been running which is supposed to be more dime heavy press-man. I've seen Raiders fans claim all the players they got were perfect fits, and that's a bit questionable. I can see Irvin fitting into their LEO-backer just fine, but he wasn't some stud exactly in Seattle either.

And for the most part FA's are allowed to leave becauase they are not viewed as must sign players by their current team.

Usually, sometimes it's more cap related. With the Chiefs being so damn dime happy (them and the Cardinals practically have a fetish for FDR) I am not too convinced they want to have huge money in more than 2 DB's at a time, and they would be looking at 3 or more when Peters, et al, come due. I just don't think they felt that Smith was more than a niche CB, which makes Berry in reality the more valuable player even if he has a less valuable "position" per se. Osmel~ seems more like cap malpractice (cough Joe Flacco being paid to be elite cough) than anything else though. The other additions seem to fit more into what you're saying, however.

Seems like more times than not we see a FA really struggle with a new team

En masse? Sure, I could buy this- it's congruent with the historical profile of teams adding FA's but underperforming/flopping. Hence the pessimistic projections on the Raiders win total. Football Outsiders still has the Raiders as the worst team in the division for Pete's sake. Plenty of individual and small scale examples of success, however. Takes some imagination and smarts to work out FA to the net benefit of the team. A lot of small scale deals for DB's seem to work very well in niche/expanded roles every year for instance.

It is why we rarely see the teams with the most cap space shine after spending big on other team's players. Winning in FA means very little these days.

Keep in mind that two things are usually true if a team has a lot of cap space

1) The FO isn't very good- hence the lack of talent to suck up cap space
2) Lack of talent to suck up space- because the FO isn't very good

Usually ends up winding itself into a cycle of suckage.

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

Well, it's a Broncos board, lol. If I talked about the Chiefs on here, I wouldn't expect a positive response either.

I hear that dude.. But ya know, a little class is ok at times..

 

[Fountain City Blues]

I hear that dude.. But ya know, a little class is ok at times..

Fair enough.

 

[idahoraiderfan33]

More laughter than fear. After all, it's still Jack Del Rio leading the team. He's definitely a HC that knows how to get the least production out of the most talent......

Fair enough.

Perhaps some other time I will reply to ever post on here..