Pursuing Russell Martin

[Illinest]

Well I guess it would at least be an upgrade. I doubt that his power numbers stay where they are - as they seem to have spiked when he moved into that new Yankee stadium. Still - he gets on base a heck of a lot more than Barajas did and he's a solid defender.

Well he was my second favorite choice for Catcher. If we sign him it'll be a step in the right direction but then I'll be especially anxious about signing a Starter to go with him. Based on a few of the things I've read I'm thinking that he's somewhere near a 10 million a year guy. Crazy for a .220 batting average but that's just the way it is for catchers I suppose.

 

[thedddd]

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9-10 million for 4 years. I doubt and would hope the Pirates wouldn't go that far for him. The price I guess is the norm for catchers like you said but that is a long time for him.

 

[thecrow124]

I would't give Russel Martin $10 million for 4 years let alone $10 million per year. Why is Neil even lookingfor a catcher? There are much larger needs for this team, like 3 rotation spots. It just seems like he is dedicating to much time and resources to. things he should't be so concerned with.

 

[Illinest]

We need starting pitchers but that doesn't mean we don't also need a starting catcher. No I don't think Mckenry is starter material and I don't think Sanchez is even close to being ready so we do need a catcher pretty freakin' bad.


The starting rotation could work out pretty differently anyways. Cole - for example - I suspect he's more likely to join us mid-year but it wouldn't surprise me if Neil is counting on him being in the majors for most of the season, and that might encourage him to run Locke or Mcpherson while he bides times.
I guess I should say 'Locke AND Mcpherson' since I suspect he's hoping one of the rotation spots will go to one of that pair anyways.
Wandy and AJ and James McDonald are sure bets so it wouldn't surprise me if he went into the season with just one starter added to the mix, and not necessarily an impact guy either. Maybe another Bedard.
I think they're planning to work Charlie Morton back in as well so that's 8.
Wandy, AJ, McDonald, Cole, Mcpherson, Locke, Morton, Mystery FA = 8 guys.

That's not how I want it done mind you. My plan involves Napoli, Shields or Greinke and the playoffs but nobody is offering me 30+ million dollars and a GM position so...

 

[Illinest]

I love the fact that you can't edit posts after a certain amount of time.

Seriously. I'm not even joshin' Cause I don't like making late additions to a post that might or might not even be read. I prefer to give new info a new post like this one right here. Riiiiight here.

The Pirates are rumored to be the highest bidder for Martin right now. 3 years 25 million.

That's CRAZY!
Just kidding. I don't know if that's actually crazy.
What I do know is - we spent 4 million on Barajas last year and he gave us -1 WAR. Martin provided +1.5 for the Yanks and that was the lowest of his career. His average is 2.7 and it is reasonable to think that we would get 2.0 or so.

The difference between a -1 WAR catcher and a +2 WAR catcher is 3 extra wins. That would've given us a record of 82-80. Awwww......
The real world doesn't work that way but it's still interesting.


Now 3 years sounds about right for us because it gives Sanchez (and to a lesser extent Cabrera) PLENTY of time to work on things in AAA, perform, get promoted, back up Martin for a season and then take over full time when he leaves. (assuming everything goes according to plan of course)
Unfortunately it might be necessary to bridge the gap to Mathisen and Jhang as well - both of whom are at least 3-4 years away in all likelihood.

I have the same opinion about Martin that I had last year when we were talking about Barmes. He's an okay guy to go after but only if we also go after a bigger fish.
Last year's plan was crap because Barmes should've been the little fish. Instead he was the big fish and Barajas was the little fish. That's too much stinky fish.

 

[magnumo]

IMO, Russell Martin is not worth anything close to 4 years at $9-10 mill per year, so good luck to him on that. On the other hand, it demonstrates the sad state of MLB that he could demand that kind of money for his mediocre performance..... and that there may be a GM out there who is dumb enough to bite on such a ridiculous demand.

I don't see Martin as worth $25 mill over 3 years either, so if THAT rumor is true, it only serves to increase my disdain for Huntington.

Fact is, I agree with just about every thought already posted in this thread..... and none of them serve to assuage my pessimism about the future of the Pittsburgh Pirates. As a result, perhaps I'll crawl back under my rock and wait for Huntington to do something promising (although I won't hold my breath while under the rock).

 

[thecrow124]

Funny thing is that for 3 years I have been saying they are going to have to overpay to barring in a real major league baseball player, now that they are trying to do just that I am like "well that sucks."

I really don't care if they overpay for people, as long as it upgrades the team. I just don't see Martin as an upgrade. Maybe they are trying to get the Yankees to overcoming in terms of years to try and trade for Austin Romine.

 

[Burgh Sports Rule]

I love the fact that you can't edit posts after a certain amount of time.

Seriously. I'm not even joshin' Cause I don't like making late additions to a post that might or might not even be read. I prefer to give new info a new post like this one right here. Riiiiight here.

The Pirates are rumored to be the highest bidder for Martin right now. 3 years 25 million.

That's CRAZY!
Just kidding. I don't know if that's actually crazy.
What I do know is - we spent 4 million on Barajas last year and he gave us -1 WAR. Martin provided +1.5 for the Yanks and that was the lowest of his career. His average is 2.7 and it is reasonable to think that we would get 2.0 or so.

The difference between a -1 WAR catcher and a +2 WAR catcher is 3 extra wins. That would've given us a record of 82-80. Awwww......
The real world doesn't work that way but it's still interesting.


Now 3 years sounds about right for us because it gives Sanchez (and to a lesser extent Cabrera) PLENTY of time to work on things in AAA, perform, get promoted, back up Martin for a season and then take over full time when he leaves. (assuming everything goes according to plan of course)
Unfortunately it might be necessary to bridge the gap to Mathisen and Jhang as well - both of whom are at least 3-4 years away in all likelihood.

I have the same opinion about Martin that I had last year when we were talking about Barmes. He's an okay guy to go after but only if we also go after a bigger fish.
Last year's plan was crap because Barmes should've been the little fish. Instead he was the big fish and Barajas was the little fish. That's too much stinky fish.

3yrs & 25M for Martin? As was said, a.220 hitting catcher. I can sum up my feelings in one simple word...

PUKE!

My feeling is, if we are going to spend money on a catcher???

Mike Napoli or bust!

If we can't get him, play the young guys.

Sanches, while he may not be ready to take over every day, can give us better defense then we have had from the position & can hit .220 & we won't have to pay him 8+M per yr.

God, baseball is just getting Ridiculous!

Just my opinion

Burgh

PS

We now have Donald Fehr running the NHLPA too.

Yikes!

 

[thecrow124]

For those thinking Sanchez could hit .220 in the majors, he had to get extremely hot for 2 weeks to hit that in AAA, and I am not sure he hit that well at AA.

 

[thedddd]

Funny thing is that for 3 years I have been saying they are going to have to overpay to barring in a real major league baseball player, now that they are trying to do just that I am like "well that sucks."
I really don't care if they overpay for people, as long as it upgrades the team. I just don't see Martin as an upgrade. Maybe they are trying to get the Yankees to overcoming in terms of years to try and trade for Austin Romine.

Totally agree I feel that this is just another Barmes deal.

 

[thedddd]

Looks to be official at 2 years 17 million.
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Honestly I can live with 2 years but they spent alot with a need for some sort of Starting Pitching.

 

[Illinest]

If we weren't thinking in the context of pirates baseball i think we'd all agree that this was a reasonable move. How reasonable could it be? Well the yankees obviously thought so.

I know that the primary concern facing the team is the starting rotation. We do still need to address that. That doesnt mean we should go into a season with mckenry as our starter. We needed a catcher and in a weak market martin was one of the least terrible choices. The bad news is we had to overpay, but the good news is that its only a two year contract.

Martin is a much smarter choice than barajas was. Last year when we signed barajas we were getting a weak hitting, OK defender who happened to be 35 years old. (Or is it 36?)
Martin is 29. He is by most accounts a better defensive catcher who if nothing else gets on base at an acceptable rate. He's also going from hell division to a place where he'll get challenged less frequently.

THIS DOES NOT EXCUSE NH FROM ADDRESSING THE PITCHING STAFF!

 

[thecrow124]

This move sucks. A waste of money that could have been used to try to lure a good starting pitcher to Pittsburgh. This move gives a dumpster catcher and nothing to look forward to but more dumpster diving by Neil. I try to live in the real world and in my world Martin is no better than McKenry and McKenry is younger and cheaper. Just plain idiotic by Neil.

 

[Illinest]

This move sucks. A waste of money that could have been used to try to lure a good starting pitcher to Pittsburgh. This move gives a dumpster catcher and nothing to look forward to but more dumpster diving by Neil. I try to live in the real world and in my world Martin is no better than McKenry and McKenry is younger and cheaper. Just plain idiotic by Neil.

I think mckenry was sheltered and i think youll eventually come around to the understanding that mckenry is a backup catcher.

 

[Illinest]

But let me reiterate - I view this in a context where you could call it Barmes 2.0.

We signed the minimum player to fill the hole and we paid a little too much for it.

We paid too much, but that's the price of cheaping out in other years. The only way to avoid the cheaping out tax is to stop cheaping out.

There's a slim chance that Martin bounces back and Neil looks like a genius too. I'm not predicting it - call it 15%. Yeah that sounds official. Statistics right? There is a 15% chance that Russell Martin has an OPS+ of 100 or better this year. Bank it (or not).

 

[TheBurgh88]

Another terrible deal but I can't say I'm suprised. His offense is terrible for a player making that much and I think a stopgap defensive catcher could have been had for much less. If that was all Martin could produce in Yankee stadium with that lineup I expect a major regression in PNC. He'll fit right in with his .220 average.

I like to use the phrase "bang for you buck" but Neal seems to be shooting with a capgun.

If Burnett and McDonald regress as they did in the second half they are in a heap of trouble. They have to be pushing their self-imposed salary cap and have done little to address pitching.

It's really sad that in 5 years of heavy spending on draft picks that they have no one other than Alvarez producing at the major league level while other teams have received contributuion from players drafted as recent as 2011. Other than a few picks that my 9 year old could have made what do they really have in the minors.

You don't build a team through FA you do it through the draft and player development and the Pirates are so bad I don't know where to begin. It's really depressing that when they do finally spend money the do so on a player like Russell Martin. What a joke. I didn't think Neal could out-do his last off-season but he's off to a rousing start.

I expect Hanrahan to be dealt next week so they can afford Martin and maybe they can stockpile more rejects like Snider, Clement, Sanchez, Moss, Hanson, Tabata, Iwamara, Church, Crosby, Vazquez, Jaramillo, Barmes, Barajas, etc. I could go on and on.

How this clown keeps his job is beyond me.

 

[Illinest]

Here's some optimism.

Yankees likely to regret letting Russell Martin go to Pirates | Hit and Run - SI.com

 

[evolver115]

It is way too rich of a contract considering what Martin brings to the table.

What choice did they have? Sanchez isn't ready, McKenry isn't an everyday catcher, and Barajas proved to be a detriment both behind the dish, and in the batter's box.

I still laugh and shake my head when I consider the catching woes of the Bucs. Matt Weiters should have been our guy.

BTW, I got to watch Martin often when he joined the Dodgers in 2006 because I lived in the area during that time. He came in like a house on fire, but injuries and contract strife were two areas that I think were a detriment to his progression in the organization.

I wish him luck, though. Hopefully he can represent himself admirably during his time with the Pirates.

 

[thecrow124]

Illinest a couple things first I personally don't value much of what I read in SI. Second I don't think the Yankees really care that Martin left since they did't even offer him a contract. Third until he proves differently McKenry has put up better numbers than Martin for the last 2 years and by the end of the season I can see the same scenario playing out as played out last year. Forth the Yankees can't afford to have 2 black holes in their lineup what would make anyone think the Pirates could afford to?


This is just a waste of resources. McKenry should be the starting catcher, even if he ins't a major league starting catcher.

 

[thecrow124]

I guess my biggest problem with this signing is that I personally believe that free agent signings are made to fill holes. At best this signing only makes one hole slightly smaller. Check it may not even do that and we are invested for 2 years and $17 million.

Therefore better options that probably were not explored. Neil probably did't really explore trades because he has this belief that his prospects are superior to proven major league baseball players. That historically and mathematically is not a correct assessment.

I just think the money would have been better served paying someone like Edwin Jackson, Jason Grilli, Kyle Lohse or any sort of pitching. We need starters that can eat innings, not a catcher that can't hit.