Possible coaching changes

[tzill]

I can’t imagine Rags is in any danger. Neither is Wotus.

I think Nevis is gone (he will get a manager position), which is OK since he was a piss poor 3B coach.

I think Bam Bam will either be let go or get reassigned. No matter the tools, when you build a lemon like the 2017 Giants offense, you gotta pay the piper.

Aguacil may stick around. He has been with the org for a while. Maybe he moves to 3rd?

Eli definitely sticks around. He earned his spot when he lost his shit in the dugout.

I bet they keep him in the org, but they will shake up hitting instructors at all levels.

 

[calsnowskier]

Looks like we won't be getting rid of Nevin . . . yet - Source: Gardenhire to be Tigers' new manager

Still got Boston. And aren’t there a couple other spots as well?

 

[SFGRTB]

This is interesting. Baggs mentions that BamBam would potentially be reassigned to bench coach, but doesn't bring up Wotus. Not sure what that's about. Maybe there's strain there? Who knows.

Despite the criticism he gets, I do think Bam Bam is a good guy to keep around. I agree with Baggs sentiment here that there does need to be a change with the hitting philosophy. It's unfair to pin the team's poor performance on one guy though. Sure, Landsford was the scapegoat in 2009, but he didn't seem to really fit in with the Giants' staff. That's not the case with Meulens, IMO.

 

[LHG]

This is interesting. Baggs mentions that BamBam would potentially be reassigned to bench coach, but doesn't bring up Wotus. Not sure what that's about. Maybe there's strain there? Who knows.

Despite the criticism he gets, I do think Bam Bam is a good guy to keep around. I agree with Baggs sentiment here that there does need to be a change with the hitting philosophy. It's unfair to pin the team's poor performance on one guy though. Sure, Landsford was the scapegoat in 2009, but he didn't seem to really fit in with the Giants' staff. That's not the case with Meulens, IMO.

Here's what I don't understand about the Giants right now. They feel that there needs to be a change because of the lack of good hitting (at least, that is the perception out there) but they want to focus this offseason on improving their pitching and defense. Am I missing something here?

 

[SFGRTB]

Here's what I don't understand about the Giants right now. They feel that there needs to be a change because of the lack of good hitting (at least, that is the perception out there) but they want to focus this offseason on improving their pitching and defense. Am I missing something here?

It's probably just them being realistic. There's a bigger market out there for CFers and other ways to shore up the defense. They probably aren't going to fix the power/hitting situation off the free agent market so it's going to require a big shake up from the existing roster, and they don't want to outright say that.

Though, FWIW, they've addressed many times that they need to fix the hitting. Not sure where this defense only talk is coming from.

 

[VASFfan]

It's probably just them being realistic. There's a bigger market out there for CFers and other ways to shore up the defense. They probably aren't going to fix the power/hitting situation off the free agent market so it's going to require a big shake up from the existing roster, and they don't want to outright say that.

Though, FWIW, they've addressed many times that they need to fix the hitting. Not sure where this defense only talk is coming from.

It's also a little odd in light of Sabean's earlier talk that seemed to suggest he was contemplating a bigger shake-up than a 'improve the defense and pitching' emphasis would seem to suggest. But as you say, maybe that's where the 'realism' comes in. Shaking up the offense is sort of hamstrung by some of the contracts (most notably Pence and Span), and making a Matt Williamsesque trade could potentially open as many holes as it plugs.

 

[VASFfan]

Still got Boston. And aren’t there a couple other spots as well?

I'm actually surprised Gardenhire opted for the Tigers over the Red Sox. I would have thought the latter would have been a more high profile job, and they're certainly in a much better position to win now. Maybe he didn't want the pressure of having to manage in Boston?

 

[SFGRTB]

This is a pretty major shake-up. It's unlcear what this means for Shane Turner. David Bell's (yes, the same David Bell) title of VP of Player Development doesn't currently exist in the Giants' org. Shane Turner is currently the Director of Player development (usually just called Farm Director), so it's unclear if this position is over or under Shane, or just a new title to replace Turner.

In any case, this is a big shake up. If Shane Turner was leg go or re-assigned, the last time something like this happened was in the 90s. Former Giants' Farm Directors have retired or left on their own.

This would definitely signify a change of direction up and down the organization that Evans and Sabean have alluded to.

 

[LHG]

It's probably just them being realistic. There's a bigger market out there for CFers and other ways to shore up the defense. They probably aren't going to fix the power/hitting situation off the free agent market so it's going to require a big shake up from the existing roster, and they don't want to outright say that.

Though, FWIW, they've addressed many times that they need to fix the hitting. Not sure where this defense only talk is coming from.

The idea of emphasis on pitching and defense are coming from articles like these:
Giants plan to continue pitching, defense emphasis over acquiring power

Where they offer these quotes:
“We don’t want to get too far away from our game,” Evans said. “We’re a pitching-and-defense team. If we compromise too much in the area of power and give up too much defensively, that can hurt us as much as the benefit of adding the power.”

Sabean echoed the thought:

“Lord knows, everybody wants power, and I know Bobby and his staff are desperate to figure out how to add that, but there’s a huge emphasis, past and present, on timely hitting. That’s how we’ve done things here.”

Defense will be the keyword this offseason.

 

[LHG]

It's also a little odd in light of Sabean's earlier talk that seemed to suggest he was contemplating a bigger shake-up than a 'improve the defense and pitching' emphasis would seem to suggest. But as you say, maybe that's where the 'realism' comes in. Shaking up the offense is sort of hamstrung by some of the contracts (most notably Pence and Span), and making a Matt Williamsesque trade could potentially open as many holes as it plugs.

I know this is very subjective, but, to me, the FO recognizes that what this team does not need is a bunch of patches but, rather, an entire rebuild. However, they also recognize that they don't have the time and flexibility to do that so they are falling back on the tried and true, which wouldn't seem to work in the current state of baseball but, as you pointed out elsewhere, worked in the past and could yet work again.

 

[LHG]

Just read that Dusty Baker got dismissed by Washington. I know that some of you all disliked his managing style but it sure seems that teams are getting a little too itchy with the trigger finger these days. Two teams make playoffs and decide to fire their managers because they cannot make it past the DS. Really? Only 8 teams make it that far. Maybe every team that doesn't win the World Series should fire their managers every year. Only the guy who wins it all should be allowed to manage the same team again the next year. That will give them incentive!

 

[calsnowskier]

This is a pretty major shake-up. It's unlcear what this means for Shane Turner. David Bell's (yes, the same David Bell) title of VP of Player Development doesn't currently exist in the Giants' org. Shane Turner is currently the Director of Player development (usually just called Farm Director), so it's unclear if this position is over or under Shane, or just a new title to replace Turner.

In any case, this is a big shake up. If Shane Turner was leg go or re-assigned, the last time something like this happened was in the 90s. Former Giants' Farm Directors have retired or left on their own.

This would definitely signify a change of direction up and down the organization that Evans and Sabean have alluded to.

Wow.

I am still not convinced that the farm has been a problem. Bumgarner, Lincecum, Posey, Belt, Panik, Crawford, Sandoval, Duffy, Duvall have all graduated in the last 10 years with Arroyo, Slater, Beede and Duggar on the cusp. That is almost a starter a year with more to come, and not counting guys like Brown, Tomlinson, Williamson, Ishikawa, Parker, Law, Osich, Otero, Okert, Romo, etc who have been great/good bench guys.

 

[calsnowskier]

4 jobs are currently open...

Mets
Red Sox
Nationals
Phillies

And the Giants have 3 guys who are legit candidates (Wotus, Sir BamBam, Nevin). I think it is likely that we lose at least one of them.

 

[SFGRTB]

Wow.

I am still not convinced that the farm has been a problem. Bumgarner, Lincecum, Posey, Belt, Panik, Crawford, Sandoval, Duffy, Duvall have all graduated in the last 10 years with Arroyo, Slater, Beede and Duggar on the cusp. That is almost a starter a year with more to come, and not counting guys like Brown, Tomlinson, Williamson, Ishikawa, Parker, Law, Osich, Otero, Okert, Romo, etc who have been great/good bench guys.

It's more of the philosophies of the way the players are brought on. The players themselves are still mainly selected by John Barr. I think the performance of the minor leaguers in recent years is what brought this change.

 

[Stokes1931]

It's more of the philosophies of the way the players are brought on. The players themselves are still mainly selected by John Barr. I think the performance of the minor leaguers in recent years is what brought this change.

It does not help that all the Giants' farm teams all finished at or near dead last in their respective leagues except for the Arizona Rookies and the DSL.

 

[SFGRTB]

Holy cow, the Giants are making some serious changes. It seems to me the Hensley Meulens is being groomed as Bruch Bochy's successor, potentially by 2019?

Meulens to the bench coach.

Ron Wotus reassigned.

Dave Righetti reassigned to front office role.

Mark Gardner reassigned.

 

[SFGRTB]

Giants seem to be undergoing a philosophical change throughout the organization. Out with the old, in with the new. Haven't seen a huge overhaul like this since the 90s.

I personally think it's the right move. It seems like the Giants have fallen behind the pack in recent years, especially in relation to the Dodgers. Sure we have the titles and won't trade those away for anything. But this goes beyond that. The Giants have as many resources as the Dodgers, yet feel light years behind them as an organization top to bottom.

This is probably as good of a year than any to make these types of moves. Wonder if this has been planned for awhile, but couldn't justify it when they were winning.

 

[calsnowskier]

Per Pavs, the Giants are about to make official announcements...

 

[calsnowskier]

Giants seem to be undergoing a philosophical change throughout the organization. Out with the old, in with the new. Haven't seen a huge overhaul like this since the 90s.

I personally think it's the right move. It seems like the Giants have fallen behind the pack in recent years, especially in relation to the Dodgers. Sure we have the titles and won't trade those away for anything. But this goes beyond that. The Giants have as many resources as the Dodgers, yet feel light years behind them as an organization top to bottom.

This is probably as good of a year than any to make these types of moves. Wonder if this has been planned for awhile, but couldn't justify it when they were winning.

I just hope they decide to actually do something with the international market. Their ignoring that entire side of the game (until Fox, of course) has been aggravating. And the Fox situation kinda ends up feeling a bit like Michael Tucker, the way they ended up shipping him off the next day (essentially).

 

[SFGRTB]

I just hope they decide to actually do something with the international market. Their ignoring that entire side of the game (until Fox, of course) has been aggravating. And the Fox situation kinda ends up feeling a bit like Michael Tucker, the way they ended up shipping him off the next day (essentially).

I think that has something to do with it as well. At least that's part of what I'm referring to resource wise. I believe there has been changes in that department as well in recent years, but they go more unnoticed. I know they have a brand new facility in the Dominican Republic.