Phillies willing to eat 50 million.

[northeastphillyguy]

That is the sum they will pay toward Howards remaining contract if somebody wants him. So it will only cost
around 5 million per year for any takers. But even as a dh he has little value. Most teams have a 1st baseman who can get on base more and strikeout less. The Phillies are stuck with Howard! So I hope that he gets less playing time with the Phillies and someone younger will get more starts at 1st base.

 

[Retroram52]

Well the FO created this mess. They are going to choke on it!

 

[jvett77]

With that girlish throw to 2nd that landed in left field last week, he can only DH for an AL team. There's a chance of that happening only if he gets off to a great start like a .250 average and a dozen homers by June.

 

[Retroram52]

What a major albatross!!

 

[Davis_Mike]

You would think an AL team would take a chance on Howard. His production alone as a DH would be worth more than $5 mil a season.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

The Howard deal is very possibly the worst deal in recent memory. Why Amaro felt it was necessary to give him an extension while he still had two full years under team control AND pay him more than market value, I'll never know.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

You would think an AL team would take a chance on Howard. His production alone as a DH would be worth more than $5 mil a season.

Over the last three seasons he's averaged playing less than 2/3rds per with a 98 OPS+. Maybe, for a team with deep pockets he'd be worth $5MM in the hopes that last year wasn't a fluke, but even then, I wouldn't give up much more than some fungo bats and big league chew to acquire him.

 

[Mistaken4193]

Howard hasn't been the same since he ruptured his Achilles. Tough Break but HAHAHAHAHA at the Phils.

 

[jvett77]

Howard was closing in on 300 HRs in seven years at the end of 2011 when he signed the big contract. No one could have predicted the big dive to 70-80 games a year and the drop off in power and RBIs mostly due to bad wheels. If he stayed healthy and produced, I don't think the criticism would be half as bad.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

Howard was closing in on 300 HRs in seven years at the end of 2011 when he signed the big contract. No one could have predicted the big dive to 70-80 games a year and the drop off in power and RBIs mostly due to bad wheels. If he stayed healthy and produced, I don't think the criticism would be half as bad.

That seems pretty obvious. However, I do appreciate the fact that you don't imply that there wouldn't be criticism, because there would be. When that deal was inked, I said it was a dumb fucking move by the Phillies.

It was dumb because:

• Howard was still under contract for another two years, so there was no good reason to rush into an extension. They could have waited through '10 and if they had, maybe they would have seen signs of a decline.
• On top of extending him early, they then paid him more than he would have gotten in the FA market. That's just batshit crazy. When teams offer extensions, giving the player "security," the teams usually receive a discount from market value. The Phillies said, "fuck it, we're going to extend Howard, giving him security AND pay him more than any other team would. His $25MM/yr made him the highest paid 1B in the history of the sport, a spot he held for four years until Miguel Cabrera's deal.

 

[jvett77]

That seems pretty obvious. However, I do appreciate the fact that you don't imply that there wouldn't be criticism, because there would be. When that deal was inked, I said it was a dumb fucking move by the Phillies.

It was dumb because:

• Howard was still under contract for another two years, so there was no good reason to rush into an extension. They could have waited through '10 and if they had, maybe they would have seen signs of a decline.
• On top of extending him early, they then paid him more than he would have gotten in the FA market. That's just batshit crazy. When teams offer extensions, giving the player "security," the teams usually receive a discount from market value. The Phillies said, "fuck it, we're going to extend Howard, giving him security AND pay him more than any other team would. His $25MM/yr made him the highest paid 1B in the history of the sport, a spot he held for four years until Miguel Cabrera's deal.

There's always been criticism on huge contracts. It's been ridiculous. But in Howard's case, he was doing 40 HRs/100 RBIs and you gotta sign him because he was eligible for free agency after the 2011 season, when he would be 32. Another motivation was that at the time he was one of four players to hit at least 40 home runs and have 130-plus RBIs in four straight seasons. And who else was going to step in and give the Phillies anything even approaching those numbers?

Yeah, they could have waited, but his numbers in '10 and '11 were still significant +30 HRs/+100 RBIs. How long should they wait? Should they then sign him after his very good 2011 year - 33 HRs, 116 RBIs? They had a decision to make. I thought the $ amount was ridiculous. But there's always the Yankees, Red Sox, Cards, etc., who would have started the bidding war.

(To correct my previous post above, he actually did sign in early 2010).

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

you gotta sign him because he was eligible for free agency after the 2011 season, when he would be 32.

Umm. What?

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

How long should they wait?

Typically another year until there's one season left on the current contract. However, I could see them extending him as early as they did IF they got a discount. Instead, as I pointed out, they extended him early AND paid him over market value. Stupid.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

But there's always the Yankees, Red Sox, Cards, etc., who would have started the bidding war.

I think it is highly unlikely that any team would have given him $25MM per. Pujols didn't get that rate as an unrestricted free agent. Had Howard actually been worth $25MM per, then Pujols would have gotten $40MM on the open market.

 

[Cedrique]

There's always been criticism on huge contracts. It's been ridiculous. But in Howard's case, he was doing 40 HRs/100 RBIs and you gotta sign him because he was eligible for free agency after the 2011 season, when he would be 32. Another motivation was that at the time he was one of four players to hit at least 40 home runs and have 130-plus RBIs in four straight seasons. And who else was going to step in and give the Phillies anything even approaching those numbers?

Yeah, they could have waited, but his numbers in '10 and '11 were still significant +30 HRs/+100 RBIs. How long should they wait? Should they then sign him after his very good 2011 year - 33 HRs, 116 RBIs? They had a decision to make. I thought the $ amount was ridiculous. But there's always the Yankees, Red Sox, Cards, etc., who would have started the bidding war.

(To correct my previous post above, he actually did sign in early 2010).

I don't know how you can look back now and say it was a good idea. At the time I think we all realized it was a mistake but we were just hoping it wouldn't come back and bite us like it did. And at the time they had just won the division 3 times in a row and everyone, including the front office was cocky and it felt good to see a Phillies team finally paying up to keep a good player.

 

[jvett77]

I don't know how you can look back now and say it was a good idea. At the time I think we all realized it was a mistake but we were just hoping it wouldn't come back and bite us like it did. And at the time they had just won the division 3 times in a row and everyone, including the front office was cocky and it felt good to see a Phillies team finally paying up to keep a good player.

Well, I only stated that at that time, it was probably a good move based on his performance. What if his legs held up? I guess 2010 was in fact pretty early. Hindsight is always best. Even if they only paid him $100 mill we'd be belly aching since it didn't pay off.

 

[jvett77]

Umm. What?

That line was from a 2010 article about the signing. The FO wanted him here for life I guess and that was their way of showing it? lol

 

[Retroram52]

Still, Slinky has the core issue nailed. So Howard was having superman like numbers on a consistent basis. That doesn't give a FO the impetus to go completely insane and give him WAY ABOVE market value per year even more than a guy like Pujols. That is where they totally flipped. Pay him market value and maybe slightly above if you want get a big FO stiffy for the guy but then don't saddle the franchise with this long-term mess they finally settled on for crying out loud!

 

[TheSnowdog]

At the time of the deal I didn't mind it
I felt he was underpaid when he was putting up the numbers he was putting up and I also thought guys like Fielder and Pujols were going to get more than Howard in the market

Unfortunate Howard got injured - makes the deal look bad in hindsight

Frankly I don't care how much money is spent on a player or even a team payroll.
$5 million payroll or $500 million payroll makes no difference to me - it doesn't change my life whatsoever
I just care about the Phillies winning and putting a good team on the field and if giving Howard $25 mil a year translated into the Phillies continued success I am all for it

Didn't work out that way though

I'm disappointed Howard is still around not because of the money but because he is just so damn ineffective as a player. He needs to go one way or another so they can get someone else in there so Ruin Tomorrow can overpay him

Anyways, I'm a Phillies fan and will always be a Phillies fan and whatever needs to be done to make the team better I'm all for - trade Hamels, Howard, etc. - if it makes the Phillies better then do it

I have zero faith though that Phillies will make any noise....not even a small pfft of a fart as long as Ruin Tomorrow is still there

 

[DJ Fieri]

You would think an AL team would take a chance on Howard. His production alone as a DH would be worth more than $5 mil a season.

I agree with this.