Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe HOF eligible

[eaglesnut]

They are in Because Dutch Leonard was full of shit. Glad he was able to turn his personal vendetta into millions from a vineyard though.

And a fucking bolshevik

 

[eaglesnut]

The guy who's lifetime batting is 179th all time and his on base percentage is 228th all time. Not impressed.

4,256 hits
No one has more

 

[PolarVortex]

4,256 hits
No one has more

Yeah, and he also has nearly 2000 more plate appearances than anyone else. Greatness isn't about how many opportunities you get, it's about what you do with the opportunities you are given. Pete Rose had 15890 plate appearances and amassed 79.6 WAR. By comparison, Lou Whitaker had nearly 6000 plate appearances less than Rose (9967). That is roughly 9-10 full seasons worth of plate appearances LESS than Rose. But Whitaker still amassed 75.1 WAR. Whitaker is not in the HOF.

 

[navamind]

Yeah, and he also has nearly 2000 more plate appearances than anyone else. Greatness isn't about how many opportunities you get, it's about what you do with the opportunities you are given. Pete Rose had 15890 plate appearances and amassed 79.6 WAR. By comparison, Lou Whitaker had nearly 6000 plate appearances less than Rose (9967). That is roughly 9-10 full seasons worth of plate appearances LESS than Rose. But Whitaker still amassed 75.1 WAR. Whitaker is not in the HOF.

As a player-manager, Rose was able to insert himself as he pleased. He had a 92 OPS+ over his final 7 seasons. He was worth -1.2 WAR over that span

 

[PolarVortex]

How about a **steroid era** cheaters wing of Cooperstown?

The sad thing is many of the players, like Bonds & Clemens, were sure-shot HOFers before they cheated the game the way they did.

There is no rock solid proof of when and if they used PEDs. There is only suspicious driven by ridiculous stories of 'cap size' testimonies of drug dealers who would sell their own mother down the river. People want to believe they are guilty so the public perception is that they are guilty even though they never got their day in court and were never suspended by the league office.

 

[PolarVortex]

Your comparison was dumb as hell.

Since you obviously didn't get it yesterday, reading comprehension IS a major issue for you.

Those three pitchers you named have nothing to do with the players I've mentioned that are all guilty of cheating the game during the **steroid era**. And they all have a direct connection to that era.

Okay dummy of those three pitchers you named in a lame attempt to change the subject how many of them had their personal trainer go to prison for them like Bonds did?

You should just stop talking. Because each time you do you just confuse yourself. You can't even stay on topic.

Look at you getting all personal and name calling. You always get set off this easy? Prolly cuz you are from Ohio making Rose one of your heroes? He's a cheater. A fucking cheater. And the umpires that gave Maddux, Glavine, and Smoltz huge strike zones were also cheaters. They cheateed for those and in doing so, effectively changed the outcome of countless games in the Braves favor. There are a wide assortment of ways to cheat in baseball. You don't even have to 'think outside the box' to come up with them. If you can't see the comparison, perhaps the confusion and lack of comprehension is yours. But I won't name call. I prefer the high road. I'll leave the low road to you.

 

[msgkings322]

4,256 hits
No one has more

Ichiro has far more

 

[msgkings322]

Yeah, and he also has nearly 2000 more plate appearances than anyone else. Greatness isn't about how many opportunities you get, it's about what you do with the opportunities you are given. Pete Rose had 15890 plate appearances and amassed 79.6 WAR. By comparison, Lou Whitaker had nearly 6000 plate appearances less than Rose (9967). That is roughly 9-10 full seasons worth of plate appearances LESS than Rose. But Whitaker still amassed 75.1 WAR. Whitaker is not in the HOF.

To be fair Pete won an MVP, was a 17 time all star, played 3 positions well, got 3 batting titles and was ROY. Also was on 3 WS winning teams with a WS MVP

It's a Hall of Fame resume easily even without the 'hit king' number.

 

[Wamu]

There is no rock solid proof of when and if they used PEDs. There is only suspicious driven by ridiculous stories of 'cap size' testimonies of drug dealers who would sell their own mother down the river. People want to believe they are guilty so the public perception is that they are guilty even though they never got their day in court and were never suspended by the league office.

Why did Bonds' personal trainer refuse to testify against him and went to jail instead? I know you don't have a legit answer to that question.

Spare my your complete bullshit that nobody cheated the game during the **steroid era**.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

are people really arguing that Rose is not a HOF caliber player??

 

[Wamu]

Look at you getting all personal and name calling. You always get set off this easy? Prolly cuz you are from Ohio making Rose one of your heroes? He's a cheater. A fucking cheater. And the umpires that gave Maddux, Glavine, and Smoltz huge strike zones were also cheaters. They cheateed for those and in doing so, effectively changed the outcome of countless games in the Braves favor. There are a wide assortment of ways to cheat in baseball. You don't even have to 'think outside the box' to come up with them. If you can't see the comparison, perhaps the confusion and lack of comprehension is yours. But I won't name call. I prefer the high road. I'll leave the low road to you.

Daaaaamn yer brain is broken and it's funny.

Pete Rose is not one of my hero's. Actually I'm from the other side of the state so I'm not a Cincinnati fan. Get a clue.

And you truly don't understand those pitchers you keep talking about have nothing to do with players like Bonds, A-Rod or Palmeiro.

 

[eaglesnut]

Yeah, and he also has nearly 2000 more plate appearances than anyone else. Greatness isn't about how many opportunities you get, it's about what you do with the opportunities you are given. Pete Rose had 15890 plate appearances and amassed 79.6 WAR. By comparison, Lou Whitaker had nearly 6000 plate appearances less than Rose (9967). That is roughly 9-10 full seasons worth of plate appearances LESS than Rose. But Whitaker still amassed 75.1 WAR. Whitaker is not in the HOF.

Opportunities? He played in Major league baseball long as fuck and was great. So great he batted so many times. Good try.

 

[eaglesnut]

Ichiro has far more

Go scream it into the pacific ocean.

 

[Janus]

Numbers aren't everything. Rose was impressionable, so much so that50 years after his prime, people still talk about his play, will they do the same for Whitaker?

 

[msgkings322]

Go scream it into the pacific ocean.

What on Earth for?

 

[PolarVortex]

Why did Bonds' personal trainer refuse to testify against him and went to jail instead? I know you don't have a legit answer to that question.

Yes, I do. Loyalty. He knew he would be trapped into lawyerspeak.

Spare my your complete bullshit that nobody cheated the game during the **steroid era**.

I never said nobody cheated. Where did you get that from? You pulling things out of your ass now?

 

[PolarVortex]

Opportunities? He played in Major league baseball long as fuck and was great. So great he batted so many times. Good try.

Rose: 15890 plate appearances, 79.6 WAR
Whitaker: 9967 plate appearances: 75.1 WAR

Given Whitaker's ratio of WAR-to-plate appearances, If he had had the same number of plate appearances in his carrer as Rose, he would have compiled 119.7 WAR. And is Whitaker in the HOF? No. That fact in itself shows the degree in which Rose is ridiculously overrated. He was a lifetime compiler but never, ever, ever a dominator. His single MVP award was even a fluke. It was more like a lifetime achievement award. Willie Stargell had a better season in 1973. Darrell Evans had a better season. Tom Seaver had a better season. Bobby Bonds had a better season. He wasn't even the best player on his own team for Krissakes - Joe Morgan had a better season.

 

[Wamu]

Yes, I do. Loyalty. He knew he would be trapped into lawyerspeak.

I never said nobody cheated. Where did you get that from? You pulling things out of your ass now?

You can't be this clueless. Okay yes you can. I mentioned some players directly connected to the **steroid era**. And to defend them for some bizarre reason you started talking about pitchers from the Braves.

If you wanna talk about pitchers directly connected to the **steroid era** that's fine. How about Clemens? I hope you say he never cheated.

 

[PolarVortex]

You can't be this clueless. Okay yes you can. I mentioned some players directly connected to the **steroid era**. And to defend them for some bizarre reason you started talking about pitchers from the Braves.

If you wanna talk about pitchers directly connected to the **steroid era** that's fine. How about Clemens? I hope you say he never cheated.

We are talking about violations of baseball protocol in general. If you want to get technical, as you clearly do, steroids and gambling have nothing in common either other than being in violation of baseball rules of fair play. In rules of fair play, steroids, gambling, AND, dumbass, deliberate umpire favoritism, all have the same thing in common: violation of baseball rules of fair play. The fact that you can not see the correlation only exposes your horrifically challenged IQ driven by your lack of reasoning and ignorance. I'm out. I'll give you the last word. You clearly need it more than I do.

 

[Wamu]

(1)We are talking about violations of baseball protocol in general. If you want to get technical, as you clearly do, steroids and gambling have nothing in common either other than being in violation of baseball rules of fair play. In rules of fair play, steroids, gambling, AND, dumbass, deliberate umpire favoritism, all have the same thing in common: violation of baseball rules of fair play. The fact that you can not see the correlation only exposes your horrifically challenged IQ driven by your lack of reasoning and ignorance. I'm out. I'll give you the last word. You clearly need it more than I do.

1. No we're not. You wanna talk about that. I was only talking about players directly connected to the **steroid era**. I mentioned Bonds' personal trainer going to jail for him. You had nothing to say about that. Wonder why?

I'm talking about something specific and you don't want to do that. You're a complete moron.