per report Griffin #2 behind Cousins in 2015.

[skinsdad62]

I've already answered your question, but just for kicks, the answer again.........Here's what Washington knew (or should have) when they drafted him.
1. He never used a playbook
2. Never was taught pro style footwork.
3. He could not read defenses
4. Never operated as a pocket passer
5. Film study habits were absent or extremely poor
6. Was not a pro style system QB.
7. Drafted, sold as, and solely dependant upon becoming the savior of the franchice (see ego boost)

Considering all of that, how was he to develop, not knowing what he did not know about his game in relation to the pro game? The organization failed him, when they played him too quickly and totally unprepared for the pro game.
Specifically to your question.........KC's pro style training began very early in his career, progressed as he advanced in his educational pursuits and was an asset when he entered the NFL. Griffin never had any of that and the differences in sacks as you've pointed out are the results of that training or lack thereof.

# 5 is one that falls on 3 . his ego falls on 3 3 has had 3 years to get #1 ,2,3 4, and 6 . . number 7 is of no consequence

 

[Stymietee]

no what i am saying is looking good in shorts is very different

Gruden wasn't just making those assessments when they were in shorts (OTA) He said the same type of things during camp and after the first preseason game.

 

[skinsdad62]

Gruden wasn't just making those assessments when they were in shorts (OTA) He said the same type of things during camp and after the first preseason game.

and in camp they are mostly in short and shells by CBA requirements

 

[Sportster 72]

Sty another thing Griffin is missing is the split second decision making. He is far from the only one that does not have it. The things you detailed are correct but you have to make POSITIVE decisions in a moments time. All the good QBs have the ability to process and execute very quickly. Rex had pocket presence and quick decision making skills but he also had bad decision making skills just enough to keep him from being a good QB.

 

[Stymietee]

Wow. I agree to a point, but you have (conviently?) left out quite a bit of history as it pertains to Robert's responsibilties and actions that have led him and the franchise to this point. It is my belief (as I believe it isxyours) that ultimately it is a dysfunctional franchise that continues to cause self inflicted wounds. But Robert is not innocent in his failures. He and his advisors, ownership, coaches, fans, and media all have a hand in it. BuT I've come to believe that he would not have succeeded anywhere else. He lacks in two critical areas. First, he does not have the intuition to be a pocket QB. He doesn't have that sense, or presence, in the pocket. I don't believe this is a learned trait. You sense pressure and move to an opening while keeping focused downfield. When pressured, he naturally reverts to back pedaling, usually right into an outside rusher that is being blocked to the outside. Second, he doesn't have the natural ability to protect himself. Have you ever seen Wilson take a hit? If it's unavoidable, he gets small. Into a ball. Robert gets hit and he looks like a rag doll flying though the air, all elbows and knees flying akimbo. These discrepancies I believe would have led to his failure no matter where he played.

Did you really want me to write the entire history? No? I gave a condensed retelling for the sake of conversation.

Those things that you don't believe that he has are learned. Sensing pressure, intuitiveness, and protecting oneself are the result of being in repetitive situations where they becomes necessary. From everything that I know of Griffin he's only played one way throughout his life, thus he reverts to what he knows. that could have been changed, given time.

Don't get me wrong, and I'll say this flatly.......Griffin is responsible for about 33.3% of his failures, Organization and coaching covers the other 66.7%

 

[Stymietee]

and in camp they are mostly in short and shells by CBA requirements

Really?? seriously?? you want to argue shorts and shells vs. making assessments no matter the environment? When every other team must do the same thing why can't this team?

 

[Stymietee]

Sty another thing Griffin is missing is the split second decision making. He is far from the only one that does not have it. The things you detailed are correct but you have to make POSITIVE decisions in a moments time. All the good QBs have the ability to process and execute very quickly. Rex had pocket presence and quick decision making skills but he also had bad decision making skills just enough to keep him from being a good QB.

I completely agree!! While watching an ESPN show that had Jeff Saturday on it he outlined what Griffin had to unlearn and then replaced his weaknesses with. Among them was on 3 step ball is out, 5 step ball is out, one step ball is out. It is a learning process. Having been the starter from day one gave Griffin plenty of time to painfully experience, very little if any time to rid himself of bad habits and relearn productive ones..

 

[j_y19]

Did you really want me to write the entire history? No? I gave a condensed retelling for the sake of conversation.

Those things that you don't believe that he has are learned. Sensing pressure, intuitiveness, and protecting oneself are the result of being in repetitive situations where they becomes necessary. From everything that I know of Griffin he's only played one way throughout his life, thus he reverts to what he knows. that could have been changed, given time.

Don't get me wrong, and I'll say this flatly.......Griffin is responsible for about 33.3% of his failures, Organization and coaching covers the other 66.7%

No, It just seems you always argue that it's everyone else's fault for Griffins predicament. While I disagree with your split, it is refreshing to see you do hold the player somewhat responsible.

Sorry, but I disagree. sense/intuition is not learned. Now mechanics can be learned which can go along way toward over coming those discrepancies.

 

[skinsdad62]

Really?? seriously?? you want to argue shorts and shells vs. making assessments no matter the environment? When every other team must do the same thing why can't this team?

well they did sty and they found 3 wanting

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I am so done discussing Griffin. He is in year 4 and still can't do the basics yet people still insist the team failed him by playing him before he was prepared. Unbelievable. So were they expected to allow him more time to develop while paying him $16 million in hopes that by year five he will finally be prepared to take the field? That does not happen. Every young QB is thrown out there in his fisrt year or two. Hell the QB we are facing came out the same year and he wasn't even a quarterback until halfuway through his Jr year in college.

Saying it's the team's fault that Griffin STILL can' t call basic protection in year 5 is an excuse. Maybe he just can't play at this level, happens all the time that high pick bust.

 

[skinsdad62]

3 is responsible for 80% of his fate here . the only thing management did wrong was not managing the injury correctly . they knew all the things about the playbook etc . but in the end robert has to get off his dead ass and study film and the playbook . he has to work on mechanics and what to do with the ball and have the sack to trust his reads . . all is on him all of it

 

[Stymietee]

well they did sty and they found 3 wanting

Geeez, Gruden was hired specifically to fix Griffin he gave up very very early on, that is after he got the job.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

According to Gruden, no decision on QB 2 or 3 will be made until after Griffin is cleared. Guess we will see how 'accurate' this latest info is soon.

 

[Stymietee]

3 is responsible for 80% of his fate here . the only thing management did wrong was not managing the injury correctly . they knew all the things about the playbook etc . but in the end robert has to get off his dead ass and study film and the playbook . he has to work on mechanics and what to do with the ball and have the sack to trust his reads . . all is on him all of it

I truly admire your willingness to stick to what is clearly a skewed POV. Coming in he NEVER had to study film or a playbook, work on any mechanics or reads, what makes you believe that he would know different simply because he was drafted? Sadly, a professional organization should have known and insisted upon it before handing the keys to the franchise to novice.

 

[Mitziman]

Stymie you seem to be completely blind by the lack of development of RG3. Hell dude, Tim Tebow has shown more improvement in becoming an NFL QB.

 

[Stymietee]

No, It just seems you always argue that it's everyone else's fault for Griffins predicament. While I disagree with your split, it is refreshing to see you do hold the player somewhat responsible.

Sorry, but I disagree. sense/intuition is not learned. Now mechanics can be learned which can go along way toward over coming those discrepancies.

Won't argue with you but I often blast Griffin for an entirely different reason, namely that when he refused to not play in the 2012 style, he should have also refused to play until such time that there was a mechanism in place for him to learn the pro style. Hell if h had that much authority in refusing to play, bench himself too.

 

[kbso83432]

According to Gruden, no decision on QB 2 or 3 will be made until after Griffin is cleared. Guess we will see how 'accurate' this latest info is soon.

The only report I have seen is McCoy #2 for Dolphins game and Griffin #2 after that. Like I stated earlier, I won't believe RG is #2 until I see him dressed on GameDay with McCoy inactive.

Time to rally around Kirk for the time being anyway. We have a very important game on Sunday. 0-3 is very possible, but imo, if we get the Jaguars and Eagles Kirk, 3-0 is possible as well.

 

[skinsdad62]

Geeez, Gruden was hired specifically to fix Griffin he gave up very very early on, that is after he got the job.

no gruden was hired to coach the washington redskins not some lame idea put forth by the press. 2nd you can lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink . i am sorry but 3 years is plenty of time to learn those skills . hell you think KC came out of chicago knowing pocket passing , pro style offense out of HS ? no it took him 3 yrs or about the same time 3 had . and MSU played him

now 2 things are a possible reason why 3 didnt take to the lessons 1) he is stupid and cant learn basic concepts (which i doubt highly or 2) he didnt accept the coaching given to him which falls squarely on his soldiers . if he cant process information fast enough during a game time situation then he will never be anything

I truly admire your willingness to stick to what is clearly a skewed POV. Coming in he NEVER had to study film or a playbook, work on any mechanics or reads, what makes you believe that he would know different simply because he was drafted? Sadly, a professional organization should have known and insisted upon it before handing the keys to the franchise to novice.

my POV is no where near "skewed" i am holding the guy accountable for his actions and his alone . the organization knew exactly what they were getting and devised some plays to assist him . then he gets hurt and doesnt want to run plays that were designed to make him successful let me say that again DOESNT WANT TO RUN PLAYS THAT WERE SUCCESSFUL

when i joined the army i knew nothing of shooting a weapon , leading troops in combat , small squad tactics or larger ones . what did i do ? i identified my short comings and studied to make them strengths . eventually i developed into one of the best shooters in the world ( at least top 10 % ) and i became an expert in squad level , platoon level , company level , battalion level brigade level , division level and army group tactics

i did it by not making excuses and that is the issue with 3 supporters . they dont get the maximum effective range of an excuse is 0.0

there was no obstacle put in front of 3 that he couldnt overcome with some humble pie , hard work and some dedication .

instead he focused on his "brand " he didnt understand he isnt entitled to anything . he didnt understand he needs his men as much as they need him

he became a selfish entitled prick and it bit him in his royal highness ass . no one put a gun to his head and told him to act like that , no one he did it himself and hence lost the confidence of his superiors and teammates

the guy cant function as a pro qb until he pulls his head out of his 4 points of contact and does what it takes to succeed as a pro qb. he was paid a lot of money to do this and he did very little to justify the investment . i hope he does have that come to jesus moment .

 

[Stymietee]

no gruden was hired to coach the washington redskins not some lame idea put forth by the press. 2nd you can lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink . i am sorry but 3 years is plenty of time to learn those skills . hell you think KC came out of chicago knowing pocket passing , pro style offense out of HS ? no it took him 3 yrs or about the same time 3 had . and MSU played him

now 2 things are a possible reason why 3 didnt take to the lessons 1) he is stupid and cant learn basic concepts (which i doubt highly or 2) he didnt accept the coaching given to him which falls squarely on his soldiers . if he cant process information fast enough during a game time situation then he will never be anything



my POV is no where near "skewed" i am holding the guy accountable for his actions and his alone . the organization knew exactly what they were getting and devised some plays to assist him . then he gets hurt and doesnt want to run plays that were designed to make him successful let me say that again DOESNT WANT TO RUN PLAYS THAT WERE SUCCESSFUL

when i joined the army i knew nothing of shooting a weapon , leading troops in combat , small squad tactics or larger ones . what did i do ? i identified my short comings and studied to make them strengths . eventually i developed into one of the best shooters in the world ( at least top 10 % ) and i became an expert in squad level , platoon level , company level , battalion level brigade level , division level and army group tactics

i did it by not making excuses and that is the issue with 3 supporters . they dont get the maximum effective range of an excuse is 0.0

there was no obstacle put in front of 3 that he couldnt overcome with some humble pie , hard work and some dedication .

instead he focused on his "brand " he didnt understand he isnt entitled to anything . he didnt understand he needs his men as much as they need him

he became a selfish entitled prick and it bit him in his royal highness ass . no one put a gun to his head and told him to act like that , no one he did it himself and hence lost the confidence of his superiors and teammates

the guy cant function as a pro qb until he pulls his head out of his 4 points of contact and does what it takes to succeed as a pro qb. he was paid a lot of money to do this and he did very little to justify the investment . i hope he does have that come to jesus moment .

OK, let's get this over with once and for all. You wrote in all caps (about Griffin)" DOESN'T WANT TO RUN PLAYS THAT WERE SUCCESSFUL" yet refuse to hold the team or organization accountable for anything except their handling of his injuries. Taking your own statement (above) as truth ask yourself this, what did they do in response to his refusal? What would you have done? And further since you're not the only one here who has served the country what would the military have done to a soldier who refused to do his duty? We both know the answers to these questions, why you refuse to believe that the same standard shouldn't apply to Griffin and this organization is frankly a puzzle.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

ITs a slap in the face to McCoy. The risk is too large if RG3 actually plays this year. Hopefully they are trying to get some trade value for him like kbso said. I don't see KC losing his job unless he gets hurt.

Are you serious? So - if say Cousins has numerous games like the Giants & Cards turnover fests last season you truly believe that Gruden & others won't consider a switch (to either Mccoy or RG3)? If nothing else the fanbase will go nuts.

I only want what is best for this team & certainly don't want Cousins to fail. However - you have to consider all possibilities which certainly could include Cousins still having the turnover bug & lacking the ability to perform in the clutch. If the team fails miserably then certainly just about any coach will want to make a switch when you have an unproven QB like Cousins.

As for the statement about McCoy - laughable. Reality check - McCoy is a career backup who may have his moments (e.g. Cowboys game last season) but realistically will never go that far. I am 100% confident that McCoy did not view that move as a slap in the face.