opinions on this article?

[sfsportsfan]

Josh Hamilton suffers another very public relapse - MLB - Yahoo! Sports

 

[calsnowskier]

Sad

 

[tzill]

The article kind of hits on some truth, but mostly it misses the mark. 90% of all addicts die without knowing they have a disease. Of the other 10%, most die of the disease anyway. All in all, about 1 in 25 ever recover. Josh Hamilton has a progressive and fatal disease...similar to cancer or diabetes. There is no cure, but there is treatment that will allow him (or any other addict) to remain in remission.

The problem is that society at large doesn't view it as a disease, but rather as a weakness and a choice. The very definition of the disease precludes the ability to choose NOT to get high. So when an unrecovered addict looks around, talks to friends, reads articles, etc, he gets one message: you have to choose better, you have to modify your behavoir, you have to avoid slippery places, shady people, etc, etc, etc.

Nobody is telling him the truth: that the power of choice, at certain times, will make absolutely NO difference...he'll get loaded. He'll get loaded if he wants to; he'll get loaded if he doesn't. It's a foregone conclusion for the addict that he'll get high. The only solution is a complete and total psychic change that has nothing to do with therapy, or rehab centers, or babysitters, or behavior modification.

Josh Hamilton isn't recovered. He's not a bad guy making poor choices. Blaming him is like blaming the pancreatic cancer patient for getting ill in the first place. Or the diabetic for not making enough insulin. The disease of addiction doesn't respond to reason, that's why 95% plus die of it. If it did respond to reason, people would simply choose not to get loaded, or moderate, or they'd remember the awful consequences of getting high, or they'd exercise their willpower.

But, as always, the vast majority of folks will have one of two responses to Hamilton. The majority (I call these the Nolanites) will say "fuck him, he had everything and is pissing it away. Serves him right, the fucking idiot." The remainder will say "poor bastard, I hope he's learned his lesson."

Neither camp understands the disease -- in fact the Nolanites will claim that it isn't even a disease, that this is a bullshit PC term invented by people who want to escape consequences of their actions.

Same as it ever was...rise, lather, repeat. My hope is that a recovered addict reaches out to Hamilton and shows him how to solve the problem.

Current odds are 25-1 against.

 

[SF11704]

tzill .... interesting perspective .... I do happen to agree with most of what you have stated. Addiction is a disease and as it is with most addictions the ability to make a 'choice' might be almost impossible. IMHO most addictions have both a psychological as well as a physical component. It is the psychological aspect of an addiction that is the most difficult to change/mend/correct/whatever. We can put a drug user in rehab and make it impossible for them to physically obtain the drug but in many cases they will revert to their prior behaviors once they are released. Changing/modifying the pyscholocial dependence on the drug is another matter all together. The psychological impact of an event may be as strong if not stronger than the actual physical impact of the event. I wish Hamilton the best but I agree with you that the odds are not in his favor

 

[filosofy29]

The article kind of hits on some truth, but mostly it misses the mark. 90% of all addicts die without knowing they have a disease. Of the other 10%, most die of the disease anyway. All in all, about 1 in 25 ever recover. Josh Hamilton has a progressive and fatal disease...similar to cancer or diabetes. There is no cure, but there is treatment that will allow him (or any other addict) to remain in remission.

The problem is that society at large doesn't view it as a disease, but rather as a weakness and a choice. The very definition of the disease precludes the ability to choose NOT to get high. So when an unrecovered addict looks around, talks to friends, reads articles, etc, he gets one message: you have to choose better, you have to modify your behavoir, you have to avoid slippery places, shady people, etc, etc, etc.

Nobody is telling him the truth: that the power of choice, at certain times, will make absolutely NO difference...he'll get loaded. He'll get loaded if he wants to; he'll get loaded if he doesn't. It's a foregone conclusion for the addict that he'll get high. The only solution is a complete and total psychic change that has nothing to do with therapy, or rehab centers, or babysitters, or behavior modification.

Josh Hamilton isn't recovered. He's not a bad guy making poor choices. Blaming him is like blaming the pancreatic cancer patient for getting ill in the first place. Or the diabetic for not making enough insulin. The disease of addiction doesn't respond to reason, that's why 95% plus die of it. If it did respond to reason, people would simply choose not to get loaded, or moderate, or they'd remember the awful consequences of getting high, or they'd exercise their willpower.

But, as always, the vast majority of folks will have one of two responses to Hamilton. The majority (I call these the Nolanites) will say "fuck him, he had everything and is pissing it away. Serves him right, the fucking idiot." The remainder will say "poor bastard, I hope he's learned his lesson."

Neither camp understands the disease -- in fact the Nolanites will claim that it isn't even a disease, that this is a bullshit PC term invented by people who want to escape consequences of their actions.

Same as it ever was...rise, lather, repeat. My hope is that a recovered addict reaches out to Hamilton and shows him how to solve the problem.

Current odds are 25-1 against.

Shut up tzill. Nobody's interested in what you think.

 

[calsnowskier]

Shut up tzill. Nobody's interested in what you think.

Rep, sir!!!

(if I could)

 

[CameronFrye]

Rep, sir!!!

(if I could)

I got ya covered.

 

[notmyfault]

I hope he's able to curb his addictions, he's a great player.

I come from a family of of drug addicts and alcoholics. Growing up, I always feared I'd have the same issues as my mother and her brothers and sisters, because a lot of my cousins did. However, I definitely do not have alcoholism, as I seldom drink and I never have urges to drink. Also, I've never used any type of drug. Nor have any of my siblings (minus experimentation with drugs).

I do believe it's a disease. It's just very preventable...unlike some other diseases.

 

[mistgl]

I hope he's able to curb his addictions, he's a great player.

I come from a family of of drug addicts and alcoholics. Growing up, I always feared I'd have the same issues as my mother and her brothers and sisters, because a lot of my cousins did. However, I definitely do not have alcoholism, as I seldom drink and I never have urges to drink. Also, I've never used any type of drug. Nor have any of my siblings (minus experimentation with drugs).

I do believe it's a disease. It's just very preventable...unlike some other diseases.

He hasn't tested positive for drugs since he was kicked out back in 05-06. He gets tested three times a week, and sometimes more.

The man isn't an alcoholic, he's a drug addict. What makes the Rangers freak out when he does this is his past struggles always started with being tipsy and the drug use escalated from there. His whole 'I can't drink thing' is an attempt to avoid the flawed stated of mind that is being hammered so he doesn't "accidentally" use again.

 

[tzill]

tzill .... interesting perspective .... I do happen to agree with most of what you have stated. Addiction is a disease and as it is with most addictions the ability to make a 'choice' might be almost impossible. IMHO most addictions have both a psychological as well as a physical component. It is the psychological aspect of an addiction that is the most difficult to change/mend/correct/whatever. We can put a drug user in rehab and make it impossible for them to physically obtain the drug but in many cases they will revert to their prior behaviors once they are released. Changing/modifying the pyscholocial dependence on the drug is another matter all together. The psychological impact of an event may be as strong if not stronger than the actual physical impact of the event. I wish Hamilton the best but I agree with you that the odds are not in his favor

The problem centers in the brain. Once the brain has convinced the addict that "this time it'll be different" or "I'll moderate this time" or "fuck it, it doesn't matter anyway" and he uses, the body takes over and the phenomenon of craving kicks in. At that point, there is nothing the brain even needs to do; the addict is going to go on his spree, emerge remorseful, swear off.....and eventually use again. There is no effective way to "therapize" the addict into changing his brain, but the good news is that after a detox period (the only real good use of rehab centers) the addict can be seperated from his physical craving. But the main problem (the addictive brain) remains. It's been proven over time that there is no medical or therapeutic approach that works with real addicts for any substantial period of time. It's got to be a recovered addict who helps the unrecovered guy. There are literally millions of such recovered cases over the last 75 years or so. The medical establishment can't claim any of them.

 

[tzill]

Shut up tzill. Nobody's interested in what you think.

Repped for Nolanisitude...

well played sir.

 

[tzill]

He hasn't tested positive for drugs since he was kicked out back in 05-06. He gets tested three times a week, and sometimes more.

The man isn't an alcoholic, he's a drug addict. What makes the Rangers freak out when he does this is his past struggles always started with being tipsy and the drug use escalated from there. His whole 'I can't drink thing' is an attempt to avoid the flawed stated of mind that is being hammered so he doesn't "accidentally" use again.

Well, mist, there's a little bit of ignorance here. Well intentioned, but incorrect. Strictly speaking, all alcoholics are addicts -- they are addicted to alcohol. There are crack addicts, cocaine addicts, weed addicts, etc. Turns out that it's the exact same disease that alcoholics have. And the same solution.

So Hamilton can't drink alcohol for the same reason alcoholics can't snort coke -- because it will kill him. For the real addict there is no middle of the road solution.

 

[msgkings322]

Well, mist, there's a little bit of ignorance here. Well intentioned, but incorrect. Strictly speaking, all alcoholics are addicts -- they are addicted to alcohol. There are crack addicts, cocaine addicts, weed addicts, etc. Turns out that it's the exact same disease that alcoholics have. And the same solution.

So Hamilton can't drink alcohol for the same reason alcoholics can't snort coke -- because it will kill him. For the real addict there is no middle of the road solution.

Too black and white here, tzill. Respectfully disagree. Many addicts are 'functioning'. They might ruin their lives, or they might not. And they don't all die.

 

[mistgl]

Well, mist, there's a little bit of ignorance here. Well intentioned, but incorrect. Strictly speaking, all alcoholics are addicts -- they are addicted to alcohol. There are crack addicts, cocaine addicts, weed addicts, etc. Turns out that it's the exact same disease that alcoholics have. And the same solution.

So Hamilton can't drink alcohol for the same reason alcoholics can't snort coke -- because it will kill him. For the real addict there is no middle of the road solution.

I get that both are addictions, I just don't think they're mutually exclusive. Just cause someone is a drug addict doesn't mean they're an alcoholic too. My point, granted not well articulated, was that people are making a way bigger deal of this than it is. Now when he starts pissing blow again, that's when everyone can sound the alarms.

When this happened three years ago he even said that the drinking isn't something he craves, but that when he gets drunk it's all to easy to slip back into being a user. I get what you're saying though, shit is a slippery slope no matter how it's painted.

 

[tzill]

Too black and white here, tzill. Respectfully disagree. Many addicts are 'functioning'. They might ruin their lives, or they might not. And they don't all die.

Respectfully, mist -- you're dead wrong on this. I've volunteered in the area for over a decade. I know what I'm talking about and moreso I know the stats. Some can maintain for a while, but all die eventually from complications of the disease (DUI, suicide, OD, liver failure, etc.).

You're probably thinking of drug abusers or heavy drinkers -- they're not addicts.

 

[tzill]

I get that both are addictions, I just don't think they're mutually exclusive. Just cause someone is a drug addict doesn't mean they're an alcoholic too. My point, granted not well articulated, was that people are making a way bigger deal of this than it is. Now when he starts pissing blow again, that's when everyone can sound the alarms.

When this happened three years ago he even said that the drinking isn't something he craves, but that when he gets drunk it's all to easy to slip back into being a user. I get what you're saying though, shit is a slippery slope no matter how it's painted.

I don't think I said or implied that all alcoholics are heroin addicts or vice/versa. I said that the disease is the same. And the only solution is ABSOLUTE abstinence. Anything else is playing with fire. Hamilton may get another chance to recover or he may not. But he can never safely drink...ever. It IS black and white man. It's life and death.

Hamilton saying (or worse, THINKING) that "it's only beer, it's not crack" is merely the disease operating in his brain, which is where the main problem is.

 

[msgkings322]

Respectfully, mist -- you're dead wrong on this. I've volunteered in the area for over a decade. I know what I'm talking about and moreso I know the stats. Some can maintain for a while, but all die eventually from complications of the disease (DUI, suicide, OD, liver failure, etc.).

You're probably thinking of drug abusers or heavy drinkers -- they're not addicts.

If there's a real difference like that, then you're correct, I was thinking of heavy drinkers. A lot of heavy drinkers get called alcoholics but I guess there's a big difference.

 

[tzill]

If there's a real difference like that, then you're correct, I was thinking of heavy drinkers. A lot of heavy drinkers get called alcoholics but I guess there's a big difference.

Exactly....and it's a common mistake. The essential difference is ability to choose. Abusers have it; addicts do not.

 

[msgkings322]

Exactly....and it's a common mistake. The essential difference is ability to choose. Abusers have it; addicts do not.

Back to Hamilton then, he doesn't seem like an addict. He seems like an abuser who sometimes makes bad choices.

He doesn't seem like he will die from any of it.

 

[tzill]

Back to Hamilton then, he doesn't seem like an addict. He seems like an abuser who sometimes makes bad choices.

He doesn't seem like he will die from any of it.

I'm curious, how could you know? He says he's an addict.