Offensive Adjustment without Hurst?

[CrashDavisSports]

With the way Perine is playing, what if we went three wide, with dual backs?

Perine is a great blocker, can help with that blocking on who is jail breaking. Gives Bengals two option in backfield.

 

[Cincyfan78]

With the way Perine is playing, what if we went three wide, with dual backs?

Perine is a great blocker, can help with that blocking on who is jail breaking. Gives Bengals two option in backfield.

Doubtful. You're going to see WIlcox out there, IMO.

That being said...I would say you could see more 4 wide. The experience the WR got without Chase could pay dividends here with Irwin lining up as the 4th WR....Not only does that give you more Burrow with the ball in his hands, but also likely more room for the RB's to pickup some good yardage before first contact.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Doubtful. You're going to see WIlcox out there, IMO.

That being said...I would say you could see more 4 wide. The experience the WR got without Chase could pay dividends here with Irwin lining up as the 4th WR....Not only does that give you more Burrow with the ball in his hands, but also likely more room for the RB's to pickup some good yardage before first contact.

I am not saying every play. I am saying, what if you have that personnel in there for 30-35% of the plays? Keep the Browns defense having to focus on two over stacked areas. You want to load the box for two stout runners, or you want to get burnt by our big three on the outside? Lots of chances for screens, run either direction, outside or inside, two different backs, two more blocking bodies for Burrow when it comes down to a pass play out of the shotgun. It just changes the dynamic of the offense for a game in which the opposing defense has feasted on us the last 5 meetings. Give them something completely new to think about while Hurst is out for at least a game.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I am not saying every play. I am saying, what if you have that personnel in there for 30-35% of the plays? Keep the Browns defense having to focus on two over stacked areas. You want to load the box for two stout runners, or you want to get burnt by our big three on the outside? Lots of chances for screens, run either direction, outside or inside, two different backs, two more blocking bodies for Burrow when it comes down to a pass play out of the shotgun. It just changes the dynamic of the offense for a game in which the opposing defense has feasted on us the last 5 meetings. Give them something completely new to think about while Hurst is out for at least a game.

I get it...

I think I'd rather just go 4 wide - rotate in Mixon and Perine and just go-go-go.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

I get it...

I think I'd rather just go 4 wide - rotate in Mixon and Perine and just go-go-go.

I don't think that is smart with Garrett and Clowney coming for Burrow. I know the line has been playing better, but no way I don't still protect Burrow more with those two.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I don't think that is smart with Garrett and Clowney coming for Burrow. I know the line has been playing better, but no way I don't still protect Burrow more with those two.

Best way is to spread them out and get the ball out of Burrow's hand. That has been one of the things Highlighted over the past 5-6 games, Burrow is getting the ball out at an elite level. Can't get sacked when you don't have the ball.

But, thing is, as a whole, how much do you really see this offense change just because Hurst is out? Not much, if at all. So, I don't think we'll see anything crazy. However, with Wilcox the only experienced TE - I'd bet you'll see more 4-wide sets before you see multiple 2 RB sets....

 

[cincygrad]

I think the point is moot with Zac as coach. The Bengals play more 11 personnel than anyone in the league. Sometimes they'll show two tight ends, but that has generally only been in goal-line or late-game packages. One of the cooler things Taylor did on Sunday was to bring in a second back (Evans) and then line him up as the outside receiver on one side with Wilcox as the outside receiver on the other. They were basically in a standard 11 personnel formation, but they had an extra running back lined up as a wideout which confused the KC defense and led to an easy touchdown.

My take is that at this point in the season, they feel really confident about their ability to protect Burrow in their standard sets.... So Wilcox will just fill in for Hurst.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

I think the point is moot with Zac as coach. The Bengals play more 11 personnel than anyone in the league. Sometimes they'll show two tight ends, but that has generally only been in goal-line or late-game packages. One of the cooler things Taylor did on Sunday was to bring in a second back (Evans) and then line him up as the outside receiver on one side with Wilcox as the outside receiver on the other. They were basically in a standard 11 personnel formation, but they had an extra running back lined up as a wideout which confused the KC defense and led to an easy touchdown.

My take is that at this point in the season, they feel really confident about their ability to protect Burrow in their standard sets.... So Wilcox will just fill in for Hurst.

And, I am not saying that is our base package. I am just saying seeing a complete game changer like this for 25-30% of the snaps to utilize your best players to make plays, protect and to misdirect would show another level of coaching creativity. I get you don't want to go reinvent the wheel right in the middle of this thing against an opponent that has your number, but I can't imagine a formation like this doesn't benefit the offense more if they are able to execute the plays.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Best way is to spread them out and get the ball out of Burrow's hand. That has been one of the things Highlighted over the past 5-6 games, Burrow is getting the ball out at an elite level. Can't get sacked when you don't have the ball.

But, thing is, as a whole, how much do you really see this offense change just because Hurst is out? Not much, if at all. So, I don't think we'll see anything crazy. However, with Wilcox the only experienced TE - I'd bet you'll see more 4-wide sets before you see multiple 2 RB sets....

Myles Garrett can beat any of these offensive lineman so quick that Joe may not have time to step into a throw before Garrett gets there. No help on Garrett means disaster.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Myles Garrett can beat any of these offensive lineman so quick that Joe may not have time to step into a throw before Garrett gets there. No help on Garrett means disaster.

Still gonna have a TE and still gonna have a RB...

Your solution was to run 2 RB's, which I am simply pointing out - isn't likely to happen. You'd see 4 wide (which already occurs) in some variation before you see 2 RB's in multiple sets.

I get the concern - but the less you put guys out into routes, the easier this offense becomes to defend with doubling more than 1 spot. The real solution in the 4 wide set is to run more, which slows up the rush.

But all of this is just really looking at a very small chance that anything changes because they are still going to run mostly a trip personnel with 1 TE, 1 RB, and 3 WR.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Still gonna have a TE and still gonna have a RB...

Your solution was to run 2 RB's, which I am simply pointing out - isn't likely to happen. You'd see 4 wide (which already occurs) in some variation before you see 2 RB's in multiple sets.

I get the concern - but the less you put guys out into routes, the easier this offense becomes to defend with doubling more than 1 spot. The real solution in the 4 wide set is to run more, which slows up the rush.

But all of this is just really looking at a very small chance that anything changes because they are still going to run mostly a trip personnel with 1 TE, 1 RB, and 3 WR.

I didn't say it was likely. I said it would be a good idea. Maximize stars, keep Cleveland guessing.

 

[cincygrad]

I have a simpler idea.... Run the damn football. Cleveland has been absolutely awful agains the run. On some podcasts I've listened to they've pointed out that they basically can't defend the run the way that they are built. I still have no idea what our plan was against them on Halloween, but we were the one team this year that decided we wouldn't attack that weakness. If there only hope is to load up the box, Burrow will kill them.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I have a simpler idea.... Run the damn football. Cleveland has been absolutely awful agains the run. On some podcasts I've listened to they've pointed out that they basically can't defend the run the way that they are built. I still have no idea what our plan was against them on Halloween, but we were the one team this year that decided we wouldn't attack that weakness. If there only hope is to load up the box, Burrow will kill them.

Yeah - going back through a few other past games with Cleve, and Garrett's only tackles are sacks. Run right at him. Once he realizes that he'll have to adjust to that part of the game, it will impact his ability to get to the QB.

Even in past games with Garret - it's not like he's going all JJ Watt - multiple sacks, and other impact plays. He gets like a sack a game, which is nice, but hardly game changing. If they are not going to use Wilcox like Hurst (and I understand why if they don't) I still say the best way is to run at Garrett as much as possible and then spread them out with 4 and 5 wide. Burrow is at his best with options, and you can still double Garrett with the OT/OG, and have 1-1 with the rest of the OL. If the Browns bring more than 4 guys, Burrow is going to bury them in the passing game.

 

[DanBengalfan]

we do these looks with the TE acting as FB sometimes. I don't know that we really want Perine to be our Lorenzo Neal though, that's not really his strength. our offense simply just doesn't depend on a FB or second running back. Evans in the backfield, with some experience might be interesting, he could flank out and be the short dump.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

we do these looks with the TE acting as FB sometimes. I don't know that we really want Perine to be our Lorenzo Neal though, that's not really his strength. our offense simply just doesn't depend on a FB or second running back. Evans in the backfield, with some experience might be interesting, he could flank out and be the short dump.

Never asked for Neal to be a lead blocker. Never asked for Mixon to lead block. I think both RB's need to stay out of each others way. I do think having a RB flanking Burrow on both sides during a pass play could protect him better.

I think both RB's are capable of getting short passes, swing passes, blocking, both running up the middle, running outside, either way. RB never has to cross in front of Burrow for that to happen. Burrow can use a lot of QB options with backs flanking either side of him.

Use the backs as a skill player, not a battering ram like Neal was.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Mixon ran for nearly 7 YPC - looks like he did just fine.

Perine was 5.5.

Burrow struggled a bit, but no surprise considering he lost Higgins in warmups and then Boyd to a dislocated finger. All things considered - thought they had a good game plan in general.

Still baffled how Burrow has so many balls batted. Usually it's a QB thing where they are short, or have a low release. Burrow is affected by neither of these issues. Either the OL needs to stay engaged with their blockers a bit better, or teams are starting to just scheme where if they don't beat their guy right from the go, they simply float at the line and try to time their jumps since Burrow is currently getting the ball out of his hands at a pretty elite level, which means a lot of timing plays.

 

[DanBengalfan]

Think it’s just his risk taker personality. He knows he’s going to complete some passes if he focuses on the target so it’s worth it to him. If he gets comfortable he can throw arching passes, but our style seems to include quick routes.

 

[cincygrad]

Mixon ran for nearly 7 YPC - looks like he did just fine.

Perine was 5.5.

Burrow struggled a bit, but no surprise considering he lost Higgins in warmups and then Boyd to a dislocated finger. All things considered - thought they had a good game plan in general.

Still baffled how Burrow has so many balls batted. Usually it's a QB thing where they are short, or have a low release. Burrow is affected by neither of these issues. Either the OL needs to stay engaged with their blockers a bit better, or teams are starting to just scheme where if they don't beat their guy right from the go, they simply float at the line and try to time their jumps since Burrow is currently getting the ball out of his hands at a pretty elite level, which means a lot of timing plays.

I've noticed that we have a lot of tipped balls on screen passes. I've also noticed that we are terrible at screens. I'm really not sure why but it's always a struggle. It's funny because that was one thing that prior coaches/coordinators were really good at doing.... Especially with Gio.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I've noticed that we have a lot of tipped balls on screen passes. I've also noticed that we are terrible at screens. I'm really not sure why but it's always a struggle. It's funny because that was one thing that prior coaches/coordinators were really good at doing.... Especially with Gio.

Maybe it's the formation for screens is setting up a tell of sorts? Wouldn't be surprising as there are many formations where only 1 play is run from that formation, for what seems like, a 90% clip. If you see that as a defense, you are going to lean into that formation at the 90% and take the risk that the other 10% won't burn you too badly.