Obviously, This Weekend Isn't What We Hoped For

[Heathbar012]

So what do you guys think needs to be done? Is it simply that Lincecum and Zito need to pitch better? If they don't, is there any chance the Giants make the playoffs? I'm assuming no. Can anyone change my mind?

Bochy feels that Timmy isn't taking his conditioning seriously enough, and the results in August seem to support that conclusion. Should he skip him once in the rotation? I'm assuming Pucetas or Sosa will be called up on Wednesday. Should Wheeler get a shot? Too soon? Is that the worst thing you can do to Lincecum's confidence in the middle of a pennant race?

Is it more the defense than the pitching? I like the suggestions of Cody Ross taking some time from Guillen in right. I think having an above average defensive outfield would certainly help Zito's confidence, if not everyone on the pitching staff. Despite Guillen's success at the plate recently, I think his offensive productivity doesn't quite outweigh his defensive liability. What is he nursing in his leg? Is it a hamstring? If so, he likely won't be right even with some extended rest.

My sister got married in Virginia this weekend (I swear it wasn't me that hit that poor pitcher in the minor league game), so I missed all of the games this weekend (gladly so with the first two). I caught the highlights (read: lowlights), but as I'm sure you all agree, that tells me nothing about how the games actually played out. What is your assessment of the weekend and what the Giants will/should do moving forward? Is there much they can do at this point in the season? I definitely think the moves made by Sabean have given the Giants the best chance to win, and the roster is much improved from the one they had in spring training. It's a shame he is hand-cuffed by the bad contracts of players that don't even see time, but that is his own doing. What say you?

 

[gp956]

Looking at the big picture... we knew August was going to be a tough month. I thought we'd lose at least a couple of the games in the standings, and so far we've actually lost 3.5 games. That's not a disaster.

San Diego has yet to have a bad month, but everything is setting up for them to have a sub .500 September, and the Giants will have a lot to say in that. But I'd sure have a lot more confidence in the Giants if Timmy and Zito were pitching better. Without those two, I think the Giants are going to end up a game or two short.

 

[filosofy29]

So what do you guys think needs to be done? Is it simply that Lincecum and Zito need to pitch better? If they don't, is there any chance the Giants make the playoffs? I'm assuming no. Can anyone change my mind?

Bochy feels that Timmy isn't taking his conditioning seriously enough, and the results in August seem to support that conclusion. Should he skip him once in the rotation? I'm assuming Pucetas or Sosa will be called up on Wednesday. Should Wheeler get a shot? Too soon? Is that the worst thing you can do to Lincecum's confidence in the middle of a pennant race?

Is it more the defense than the pitching? I like the suggestions of Cody Ross taking some time from Guillen in right. I think having an above average defensive outfield would certainly help Zito's confidence, if not everyone on the pitching staff. Despite Guillen's success at the plate recently, I think his offensive productivity doesn't quite outweigh his defensive liability. What is he nursing in his leg? Is it a hamstring? If so, he likely won't be right even with some extended rest.

My sister got married in Virginia this weekend (I swear it wasn't me that hit that poor pitcher in the minor league game), so I missed all of the games this weekend (gladly so with the first two). I caught the highlights (read: lowlights), but as I'm sure you all agree, that tells me nothing about how the games actually played out. What is your assessment of the weekend and what the Giants will/should do moving forward? Is there much they can do at this point in the season? I definitely think the moves made by Sabean have given the Giants the best chance to win, and the roster is much improved from the one they had in spring training. It's a shame he is hand-cuffed by the bad contracts of players that don't even see time, but that is his own doing. What say you?

To answer this as succinctly and as accurately (in my humble opinion) as possible, bottom line: the Giants NEED Timmy and Zito to come around. They are pitching horribly which has hampered our once relatively reliable bullpen into overworked and useless status. They also put more pressure on the following guys in the rotation in Cain and Sanchez especially to come through when their are already two losses on the board from the #'s 1 and 2 starters. Let's face it, although Sabean has put together a respectable offense, this team was built on pitching. When your two top starters are getting hammered, it does have a mental effect on the entire team. The bats are now respectable, but this isn't a murderers row type scenario, this is a team that is capable when needed.

The only other change I'd make to the lineup is adding Ross in for Guillen (especially when they play at home). You instantly make a HUGE upgrade to the outfield and on the basepaths as well with forfeiting little if any with the bat.

Congrats to the sister though man.

EDIT: I also agree with gp on the big picture, this was going to be a tough month regardless; we didn't do so hot, but we still have a fighting chance.....let's see how the Padres respond now that the ball is in their court with a very tough month.

 

[Heathbar012]

This is what I was hoping to read. So we all agree to stay the course, but with Cody Ross getting more starts (funny how what seemed like simply a block of the Padres has turned into a good player to have for the present and the future). Is there anything specific that anyone noticed in Zito's or Timmy's mechanics? Is coach crusher signed up on here yet? I'm still optimistic because it seems the young Padres pitchers are starting to break down, as expected. I couldn't imagine throwing even 175 innings of major league ball as the first time ever throwing that many innings (in the middle of a pennant race, no less). It doesn't seem likely, but hopefully, the Rockies will lay down for the Giants and experience a resurgence against the Padres.

 

[gp956]

BTW, as the Predict August's Record thread on ESPN pointed out, had we gone 17-11 we'd either be tied or one game out going into September.

 

[gp956]

This is what I was hoping to read. So we all agree to stay the course, but with Cody Ross getting more starts (funny how what seemed like simply a block of the Padres has turned into a good player to have for the present and the future). Is there anything specific that anyone noticed in Zito's or Timmy's mechanics? Is coach crusher signed up on here yet? I'm still optimistic because it seems the young Padres pitchers are starting to break down, as expected. I couldn't imagine throwing even 175 innings of major league ball as the first time ever throwing that many innings (in the middle of a pennant race, no less). It doesn't seem likely, but hopefully, the Rockies will lay down for the Giants and experience a resurgence against the Padres.

I've heard that Zito's back is bothering him, which effects his ability to get the bite on the curve. As for Timmy, the story is that his arm slot has dropped a bit, which produces more movement on his pithes. The old Timmy came right over the top, thus his fastball had very little horizontal movement, which when you can throw it 95, painted, isn't a problem. What I don't know is whether the arm slot change was motivated by lost velocity, or is a consequence of some other issue (i.e. conditioning).

 

[tzill]

I think what we will need from the starters over their last half dozen starts is this:

Timmy 4.00 ERA
Zeets 4.25 ERA
Cainer 3.00 ERA
Chez 4.25 ERA
Bum 3.50 ERA
If we get this, I think we win the division.

EOY stats for the hitters that would mean a playoff berth:

Towers 280/370/500
Freddy 300/350/380
Buster 330/370/500
Huff 300/380/520
Bat 270/360/500 (Giants numbers only)
Panda 290/340/450
UUU 260/320/440
Jose 320/370/450 (Giants numbers only)
Ross 280/330/400 (ditto)
Font 290/340/400 (ditto)
Rent 280/340/370
Ishi, Nate, Eli, and Row's contributions should be minimal.

 

[Heathbar012]

I think what we will need from the starters over their last half dozen starts is this:

Timmy 4.00 ERA
Zeets 4.25 ERA
Cainer 3.00 ERA
Chez 4.25 ERA
Bum 3.50 ERA
If we get this, I think we win the division.

EOY stats for the hitters that would mean a playoff berth:

Towers 280/370/500
Freddy 300/350/380
Buster 330/370/500
Huff 300/380/520
Bat 270/360/500 (Giants numbers only)
Panda 290/340/450
UUU 260/320/440
Jose 320/370/450 (Giants numbers only)
Ross 280/330/400 (ditto)
Font 290/340/400 (ditto)
Rent 280/340/370
Ishi, Nate, Eli, and Row's contributions should be minimal.

It'll be interesting to see how close they get to these numbers. Without question, every player is capable of achieving these goals. Strangely, I feel better seeing it mapped out so simply. Thanks, tzill.