ehb5
HTTR
Nos
On the other hand.....everyone knows that MJ is the greatest player ever....and MJ will tell you, Magic and Bird were the same caliber players. Magic played with KAJ towards the end of KAJ's career, and will tell you that even as an older player, he was the best. KAJ is old enough to have played against Wilt, West and Oscar, and will tell you those guys were better than anything going today. So yes, older stars were as good as stars from today.Just a general comment:
While discussion on current players has certainly sparked quite the debate, I did want to bring up players from the 50s and 60s.
NBA salaries really started to rise quickly in the early 70s. In fact, in 1958, the average NBA salary was $12,000, and it was around $20,000 in 1968. That figure rose to $200,000 by the mid 70s as the sport became more popular. while these figures were still significant before 1970, they were not the life changing amounts of $ that they are today.
This is significant because for 2 reasons:
1) many high quality athletes chose other professions over pro basketball. The money was seen as a short term paycheck and not enough to set them up for life, as it is today.
2) today, talented players train from young ages because being a pro ball player is among the most coveted professions in the world. That simply was not the case back then. Basketball was viewed as a game or a hobby, where today many see it as a way out.
Because the game was not as popular then, there was not nearly as much talent to draw from. There were very few international players in the league, and also few black players. The level of competition was not nearly the same. Therefor, it is fair to conclude that players from those eras are overrated in the grand scheme of things.
Lastly, I am 37, so my only real exposure to this era of basketball is through stats and short film clips. From what I have seen from the 50s, I truly believe that Any average D3 player with a time machine could compete with NBA players from that era. The game was much slower, the athletes were not the same and the players lacked the knowledge and skills that today's players have. So when people say that 50's stars would dominate current players, I have to laugh. Bob Petit was awesome for his era, but he never saw anything like Anthony Davis or even Draymond Green.
Like any industry, coaching in the game of basketball has evolved tremendously. Today's stars could play in any era. I am not sure the same can be said for most players before 1960. Those guys were big fish in a relatively small pond. These guys are big fish in a large ocean.
End of rant.
On the other hand.....everyone knows that MJ is the greatest player ever....and MJ will tell you, Magic and Bird were the same caliber players. Magic played with KAJ towards the end of KAJ's career, and will tell you that even as an older player, he was the best. KAJ is old enough to have played against Wilt, West and Oscar, and will tell you those guys were better than anything going today. So yes, older stars were as good as stars from today.
I heard Hubie Brown, talking about this yesterday. I respect Hubie's opinion more than about anyone on the planet. He was saying that while you can't take away from today's player, the current game's rules are as watered down and as offense friendly as the NFL's passing game rules. With no hand check, no forearm, and no risk of a hard foul(which he said is a disgrace), the top players from those era's could have scored 7-8 points per game more than they did. As he was saying, the reason there is no structured passing game in today's NBA is that there is no reason too, the rules make it to where you can just go to the rim. If great players from that era played with these lax rules....you want to talk about LOL, try stopping Magic or Oscar without a hand check or KAJ or Wily without a forearm in his back. Now that's LOL
As to your laugh at Bob Petit...you wouldn't be laughing if he were in his prime and playing today. He would take Draymond Green to school. Ever hear of a guy named Kevin McHale? I can assure you, if they didn't have help, he would take AD or DG to school. He would score on them at will
Defensive schemes have become more advanced, but it doesn't matter, the rules have tilted the game so far in the offenses favor, it doesn't matter. It's like the NFL, having 5 guys a year throw for 5000 yards doesn't make any of them Dan MarinoAlso keep in mind, while rules have changed, defensive schemes have become much more advanced. While it may be true that ISO ball can work in the current NBA, the team's that are most successful move the ball pretty darn well.
Defensive schemes have become more advanced, but it doesn't matter, the rules have tilted the game so far in the offenses favor, it doesn't matter. It's like the NFL, having 5 guys a year throw for 5000 yards doesn't make any of them Dan Marino
Players then were more fundamentally sound, they went through 4 years of college to hone their craft. Kids today are very athletic, but with the majority of them one and done, their skill level, as a whole, is not what it was. Steph Curry is seen as the greatest shooter ever. If you couldn't hand check a guy like Reggie Miller, Larry Bird, Jerry West, it would be absurd. Not better, just as goodOk, then how do you explain the fact that players from the 60s and early 70s in particular posted such gaudy numbers and the current players cannot?
People often make the assumption it is because those players were better. That is not why. Greats like Wilt and Baylor where physically superior to their competition in a way we will never see again. The talent gap is not nearly as wide today. It isn't because the best players are less great, it is because the average player is much, much better. While LeBron is clearly the best athlete in the game now, every team has 2-3 guys capable of mixing it up with him. Nobody can check him 1 on 1 without help, but many can make him work for his shots. That was not true back in the 50s 60s and the early 70s.
Elgin Baylor would be a fine player today, but every team has players capable of competing with him athletically. There were no such players back in his day.
Players then were more fundamentally sound, they went through 4 years of college to hone their craft. Kids today are very athletic, but with the majority of them one and done, their skill level, as a whole, is not what it was. Steph Curry is seen as the greatest shooter ever. If you couldn't hand check a guy like Reggie Miller, Larry Bird, Jerry West, it would be absurd. Not better, just as good