NBA Dynasty Game 14

[da55bums]

They made it his last year too...

wtf, lol...does that matter if they go in his last year or 2nd to last year...now I know your drinking too and that proved it, lol

 

[Nosferatu]

well since I said Brown was the only back better than Peyton...lets use the Browns teams instead...my argument was Brown vs Peyton as the best RB ever. Lets start with the 14 to 16 games talk first, then move into the Milt Plum/Frank Ryan qb situation against McMahon/avellini

all I said was Barry was on shitty teams and no matter how you slice it, he was...since you think the 90's lions teams were so good your going to have me thinking they won a championship that I missed in another drink.

I do love how you just showed Peyton actually played with less games a season for 3 seasons so it should have been easier to loose less games a season other than 2..1 a strike shortened year 9 games and the other in a 14 game season...barry's 3 5 win seasons came in 16 game season

Fact the Browns never had a losing season during Brown's career, the team around him must have been pretty good no?

Fact Walter played with some of the worst offensive skill position players in history during his prime. Even Jim McMahon sucked!

Fact the Lions were in a division with much stronger offenses which would put the shitty Lions in more garbage time situations which could add to their offensive players gaining more garbage time yards.

I never said the Lions were a Championship team but Barry was surrounded by much better offensive players than Walter was.

 

[Nosferatu]

wtf, lol...does that matter if they go in his last year or 2nd to last year...now I know your drinking too and that proved it, lol

Point being the Lions didn't make the playoffs Barry's last year but the following year without him they did. The Bears weren't Walter's team anymore at the end of his career, it was about defense.

When did I say I wasn't drinking?

 

[da55bums]

Fact the Browns never had a losing season during Brown's career, the team around him must have been pretty good no? or he was THAT dominate against his peers in even 12 games a season instead of 16...spin how you want, Russell, Heiny, Sharman and Havlicek were that dominate in the nba also with their peers , Jordan, pippen did it too....not lebron

Fact Walter played with some of the worst offensive skill position players in history during his prime. Even Jim McMahon sucked! agree on McMahon, Browns QBs and WR were just as bad, the nice thing is defenses focused on Brown way more than teams did on Peyton, that they could dump easier TD passes with 8 or 9 in the box.

Fact the Lions were in a division with much stronger offenses which would put the shitty Lions in more garbage time situations which could add to their offensive players gaining more garbage time yards.
actually agree because they did have shitty teams that were loosing alot for more garbage time, lol

I never said the Lions were a Championship team but Barry was surrounded by much better offensive players than Walter was. How so much "garbage time" then? The way you were spinning it and my drinking could have come up with you saying they were world champs in another drink, lighten up, I didn't say you said they were world champs

 

[da55bums]

Point being the Lions didn't make the playoffs Barry's last year but the following year without him they did. The Bears weren't Walter's team anymore at the end of his career, it was about defense.

When did I say I wasn't drinking?

That could be the only explanation to go with this answer also...it must have been Barry's team after he left that made the playoffs, lol, but not Walter's...holy shit balls...you spin well...player x is great because of this, player y is bad because of the same damn thing...

 

[tlance]

Reggie averaged 18.2 PPG Clyde 20.4 PPG how is that crushing?

If I had to go just by starters in this one i'd go.

Payton > Jackson
Drexler > Miller
LeBron > Havlicek
McHale even Issel : i'd give a slight edge to McHale.
Parish < Wilt and it's not close.

For a neutral opinion, I have to say that I don't think Bum's team is all that great.

Two things:

Miller is not a better scorer than Drexler, he has more career points because he played 3 more seasons. Drexler was an MVP candidate when he was in Portland. As good as Reggie was, he never sniffed that level of achievement.

One more big hole in daBum's arguments:

He is counting all those titles for the sixties Celtics as if they mean as much as each of LeBron's two. Championships for role players cannot be counted in the same way that they are for superstars.

If championships were all that mattered, then my starting 5 of:

Derek Fisher
Sam Jones
Robert Horry
Tom Heinsohn
Bill Cartwright

would blow most of these teams out of the water, but we all know that a group like that would struggle to make the playoffs in today's NBA.

So when comparing these teams, titles won should not be the main resume highlight unless that player has won at least 1 MVP award to go with the rings.

In case you could not tell, I think the oldheads would get smacked by LeBron and company.

 

[Ritzarmy]

Bump. Please everyone vote. Voting ends at 5pm today.

 

[Nosferatu]

That could be the only explanation to go with this answer also...it must have been Barry's team after he left that made the playoffs, lol, but not Walter's...holy shit balls...you spin well...player x is great because of this, player y is bad because of the same damn thing...

Let me see if I can dumb this down for ya bums.

Barry was still in his prime when he QUIT on his teammates, coaches and fans. Yet the same team who didn't make the playoffs with him did make the playoffs the following season without him. Which helps to show the team around him wasn't all bad as you claim.

Walter was clearly passed his prime when he retired, he ran for like 500 yards in 1987 it simply wasn't his team anymore, huge difference.

 

[da55bums]

Let me see if I can dumb this down for ya bums.

Barry was still in his prime when he QUIT on his teammates, coaches and fans. Yet the same team who didn't make the playoffs with him did make the playoffs the following season without him. Which helps to show the team around him wasn't all bad as you claim.

Walter was clearly passed his prime when he retired, he ran for like 500 yards in 1987 it simply wasn't his team anymore, huge difference.

they both weren't there and their team went to the playoffs? the reason for them leaving didn't matter squat to the following years, nice sentament, but the teams were focused on what they had not didn't have.

with your logic and arguements, the Bears teamates quit on Walter while he WAS there and let him get his yards.

 

[da55bums]

For a neutral opinion, I have to say that I don't think Bum's team is all that great.

Two things:

Miller is not a better scorer than Drexler, he has more career points because he played 3 more seasons. Drexler was an MVP candidate when he was in Portland. As good as Reggie was, he never sniffed that level of achievement.

One more big hole in daBum's arguments:

He is counting all those titles for the sixties Celtics as if they mean as much as each of LeBron's two. Championships for role players cannot be counted in the same way that they are for superstars.

If championships were all that mattered, then my starting 5 of:

Derek Fisher
Sam Jones
Robert Horry
Tom Heinsohn
Bill Cartwright

would blow most of these teams out of the water, but we all know that a group like that would struggle to make the playoffs in today's NBA.

So when comparing these teams, titles won should not be the main resume highlight unless that player has won at least 1 MVP award to go with the rings.

In case you could not tell, I think the oldheads would get smacked by LeBron and company.

Havlicek had 8 rings and HE doesn't make your Rings team....how does everyone not realize Havlicek was one of the greatest players to play the game and has the stats too.

and every sports recent decades would kill the players 40 plus years ago, even golf, lol

 

[Nosferatu]

they both weren't there and their team went to the playoffs? the reason for them leaving didn't matter squat to the following years, nice sentament, but the teams were focused on what they had not didn't have.

with your logic and arguements, the Bears teamates quit on Walter while he WAS there and let him get his yards.

Not one part of your post makes sense. But how about we just let it go...

 

[tlance]

Havlicek had 8 rings and HE doesn't make your Rings team....how does everyone not realize Havlicek was one of the greatest players to play the game and has the stats too.

and every sports recent decades would kill the players 40 plus years ago, even golf, lol

Havlicek was a superstar player. I am talking about the role players you are touting as multiple champions.

Notice my team is filled with role players?

However, the years with Hondo won rings, his stats were not all that great. His "LeBron like" statistical seasons came in years where the Celts were not quite as good.

 

[da55bums]

Havlicek was a superstar player. I am talking about the role players you are touting as multiple champions.

Notice my team is filled with role players?

However, the years with Hondo won rings, his stats were not all that great. His "LeBron like" statistical seasons came in years where the Celts were not quite as good.

absolutely a GREAT point...players who put up higher numbers, don't make their team better. Jordan had to learn it, he didn't win til he did..Lebron, Durant are still learning it, Issel, English never quite figured it out...and why Rings have an impact just as much as PPG numbers.

Havlicek, Russell, Heinsohn, Sharman all could have had higher personal numbers and achievments if they were "the guy" on other teams.

 

[tlance]

absolutely a GREAT point...players who put up higher numbers, don't make their team better. Jordan had to learn it, he didn't win til he did..Lebron, Durant are still learning it, Issel, English never quite figured it out...and why Rings have an impact just as much as PPG numbers.

Havlicek, Russell, Heinsohn, Sharman all could have had higher personal numbers and achievments if they were "the guy" on other teams.

That is ridiculous.

LeBron has won twice and been to the Finals 5 times. He absolutely makes players around him better. The problem the Heat have are that He and Wade don't complement each other at all and Wade is no longer very good, let alone great. Jordan is the greatest ever, IMO, but he did not do as much to make others around him better as LeBron does now. Oh, and by the way, he still averaged 30 per game in his championship seasons.

Durant's problem is more about the point guard and the coach.

Issel and English in the same conversation as Jordan and LeBron? Are you freaking serious?

As for your old Celtics, while it is true that they all could have posted better numbers on separate teams, none, including Russel were capable of putting a team on their back and making them an instant contender the way that Jordan and Lebron are/were. Wilt actually was on that level even though he was beaten by Russel and co. more often than not.

 

[wlk3]

Tlance, if you have a chance could you look at game #6 and give me your thoughts on that matchup...? I enjoy your break downs...

 

[da55bums]

That is ridiculous.

LeBron has won twice and been to the Finals 5 times. He absolutely makes players around him better. The problem the Heat have are that He and Wade don't complement each other at all and Wade is no longer very good, let alone great. Jordan is the greatest ever, IMO, but he did not do as much to make others around him better as LeBron does now. Oh, and by the way, he still averaged 30 per game in his championship seasons.

Durant's problem is more about the point guard and the coach.

Issel and English in the same conversation as Jordan and LeBron? Are you freaking serious?

As for your old Celtics, while it is true that they all could have posted better numbers on separate teams, none, including Russel were capable of putting a team on their back and making them an instant contender the way that Jordan and Lebron are/were. Wilt actually was on that level even though he was beaten by Russel and co. more often than not.

Jordan didn't win til he gave up some "control" and trusted the players around him more, sure he scored, he is the best player to play the game but he even realized he couldn't take every shot and win. Jordan made Scottie Pippen a star, steve kerr a star, Scottie plays for other teams he is questionably a HOFer. I could see Wade and Pippen as close players but Wade still won without Lebron, don't know if Pippen could without Jordan (and actually he didn't when Jordan played baseball)

I said Issel/English same as Durant and thats true, no way Jordan and LeBron nor did I say that..

Fair enough, I disagree, Halvicek could have gone to any team and made them instant contenders, to say a HOFer with his complete skills across the board wouldn't is crazy, Sharmon and Heinsohn couldn't...if Lebron played in the same time Jordan did...Lebron would just end up like Wilt...beat by Jordan and co. routinely.

 

[tlance]

Jordan didn't win til he gave up some "control" and trusted the players around him more, sure he scored, he is the best player to play the game but he even realized he couldn't take every shot and win. Jordan made Scottie Pippen a star, steve kerr a star, Scottie plays for other teams he is questionably a HOFer. I could see Wade and Pippen as close players but Wade still won without Lebron, don't know if Pippen could without Jordan (and actually he didn't when Jordan played baseball)

I said Issel/English same as Durant and thats true, no way Jordan and LeBron nor did I say that..

Fair enough, I disagree, Halvicek could have gone to any team and made them instant contenders, to say a HOFer with his complete skills across the board wouldn't is crazy, Sharmon and Heinsohn couldn't...if Lebron played in the same time Jordan did...Lebron would just end up like Wilt...beat by Jordan and co. routinely.

Steve Kerr was nothing close to a star. He played 20 minutes a game and did his job, which was to make shots. One happened to be a title clincher.

As for Pippen, how exactly did Jordan make him better? I am sure the competition in practice helped during Pip's early years, but Scottie actually resented MJ before he retired the first time. Jordan was very hard on him. On the court, the game was easier for Scottie because of all the attention that Jordan drew from the defense, but that is not Jordan making Pippen "better" LeBron routinely creates shots for teammates where Jordan would have looked to finish himself.

Also, don't forget that Pippen was the All-Star MVP and a leading MVP candidate the year MJ was playing baseball. Jordan's impact on Pippen's game is very overblown.

For the record though, I still say Jordan is GOAT.

 

[Ritzarmy]

Thread is closed