Nate Silver weighs in on the over reliance on WAR for the Hall of Fame (and perhaps our current voting process)

[msgkings322]

The Hall of Fame is about more than WAR

A call for a pluralistic approach to Cooperstown.

www.natesilver.net

He notes, for example, that Sandy Koufax has less WAR than Jamie Moyer. Also notes that the HoF actual rules state that 'character' is part of the considerations.

Interesting deep dive into what WAR does and doesn't capture

 

[Fountain City Blues]

WAR being a counting stat that doesn't easily account for nuance shouldn't be something people forget in these HOF comparisons, but unfortunately is very common. Nolan Ryan has utterly insane counting stats, I am not sure how many people would say he is the GOAT pitcher though is the thing. That is a more complicated answer and people have real and valid preferences.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

The Hall of Fame is about more than WAR

A call for a pluralistic approach to Cooperstown.

www.natesilver.net

He notes, for example, that Sandy Koufax has less WAR than Jamie Moyer. Also notes that the HoF actual rules state that 'character' is part of the considerations.

Interesting deep dive into what WAR does and doesn't capture

this is silly... the writers association has always been awful at voting... now we are saying they are awful because they use WAR too much??

we are doing the top 10 list right now... yes we have brought up WAR, but we have also brought up WAR7 and JAWS... point is bad voters are going to remain bad, but its not because of a stat... and their overuse of it... as any smart fan can tell the difference between longevity and peak....

 

[msgkings322]

WAR being a counting stat that doesn't easily account for nuance shouldn't be something people forget in these HOF comparisons, but unfortunately is very common. Nolan Ryan has utterly insane counting stats, I am not sure how many people would say he is the GOAT pitcher though is the thing. That is a more complicated answer and people have real and valid preferences.

Interestingly Ryan’s insane counting stats are really just no hitters and strikeouts. He has negative ones too like walks.

 

[msgkings322]

this is silly... the writers association has always been awful at voting... now we are saying they are awful because they use WAR too much??

we are doing the top 10 list right now... yes we have brought up WAR, but we have also brought up WAR7 and JAWS... point is bad voters are going to remain bad, but its not because of a stat... and their overuse of it... as any smart fan can tell the difference between longevity and peak....

Did you read the link though?

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Interestingly Ryan’s insane counting stats are really just no hitters and strikeouts. He has negative ones too like walks.

"Aaron Rodgers is the most sacked QB ever" energy. Still an all time great, but this is kind of exactly what I am saying with the lack of nuance with counting stats, WAR included.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Did you read the link though?

i cant read...

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Did you read the link though?

we all know the flaws of WAR... in the other threads... i have brought up black ink, i have brought up face of the franchise... i have brought up how some players are just likeable and some are not, and how some eras have different reputations...

if i brought those things up, and i am a basic moron... i am sure anyone who knows anything about baseball knows these stuff too... and does not just look at one stat for anything...

problem again, is the voters are known to be stupider than the average fan....

 

[msgkings322]

"Aaron Rodgers is the most sacked QB ever" energy. Still an all time great, but this is kind of exactly what I am saying with the lack of nuance with counting stats, WAR included.

What did you think of Silver’s post?

 

[Fountain City Blues]

What did you think of Silver’s post?

Haven't seen it yet in detail as I've been dealing with shit weather, but on the surface "the HOF being more than WAR" is a basically correct thing to say, imo.

 

[Cedrique]

Nothing against Ichiro, but what does this even mean? "This first category gives more credit to players (say, Suzuki) who played the game unlike anyone else"

I know he bunted a lot, but what else was unlike anyone else? Is it like a Pete Rose thing?

 

[msgkings322]

Haven't seen it yet in detail as I've been dealing with shit weather, but on the surface "the HOF being more than WAR" is a basically correct thing to say, imo.

Check it out, he’s a smart dude and used to work at Baseball Prospectus

 

[msgkings322]

Nothing against Ichiro, but what does this even mean? "This first category gives more credit to players (say, Suzuki) who played the game unlike anyone else"

I know he bunted a lot, but what else was unlike anyone else? Is it like a Pete Rose thing?

Ichiro had mystical swag too, treated his bats like samurai swords, etc. he was definitely a unique kind of player

 

[Cedrique]

Ichiro had mystical swag too, treated his bats like samurai swords, etc. he was definitely a unique kind of player

that's racist

 

[msgkings322]

that's racist

Not this time lol

 

[steveringo]

Dude is smart.

Let's ask him for his all time ranking, so we can just skip the polls threads...

 

[wazzu31]

Nothing against Ichiro, but what does this even mean? "This first category gives more credit to players (say, Suzuki) who played the game unlike anyone else"

I know he bunted a lot, but what else was unlike anyone else? Is it like a Pete Rose thing?

He didn’t bunt a lot.

 

[Cedrique]

He didn’t bunt a lot.

Well, then I know even less about Ichiro. I just figured since he hit a lot of singles that he was a good bunter. I guess he was just so fast he got a lot of infield hits.

 

[navamind]

Well, then I know even less about Ichiro. I just figured since he hit a lot of singles that he was a good bunter. I guess he was just so fast he got a lot of infield hits.

I think he just hit a lot of grounders he could run out. I'd be curious to see what his stats on ground balls were versus the league average during his career, but if I had to guess it's probably significantly above that average?

 

[Cedrique]

I think he just hit a lot of grounders he could run out. I'd be curious to see what his stats on ground balls were versus the league average during his career, but if I had to guess it's probably significantly above that average?

They had to be ridiculous. He had 392 career infield hits and the guy in second place was at about 240. And he didn't start playing in MLB until he was about 28, which makes it even more amazing.