My worldview just exploded! Skip Bayless with the factual mic drop on the 'play.'

[chf]

About the 2:45 mark

Setup: FS1 asks Cliff Avril about anti Wilson rumours.

They touch on the '14 Superbowl 'play.'

Skip Bayless with the mic drop.

Marshawn (I've been preaching this for YEARS) wasn't as good as people think in short yardage those last couple of seasons. In THAT season, he'd been stuffed 4 out of 5 times from the 1 yd line.

OMFG, stop the world I want to get off. Skip and I agree.

Heh.

 

[chf]

Huh, apparently you don't have to put in [media] anymore. Mod feel free to delete the extra, and this post if you like.

 

[BSUSeahawk]

The idea that handling the ball off to Marshawn in that situation was a guaranteed touchdown was always a little odd to me.

I didn't mind a play call that didn't involve Lynch. I had more of an issue with the play they decided on. I think we could have done a little better than a slant pass to Ricardo Lockette, personally.

 

[chf]

The idea that handling the ball off to Marshawn in that situation was a guaranteed touchdown was always a little odd to me.

I didn't mind a play call that didn't involve Lynch. I had more of an issue with the play they decided on. I think we could have done a little better than a slant pass to Ricardo Lockette, personally.

Sure, I wanted them to bootleg rollout Russ like he did earlier that same year, put him 1 on 1 with most LB's or DB's, and it's lights out. But for the sake of argument, Browner could've blown up a play like that too, strip-sack and game over.

I Keep coming back to the idea that Butler had to guess right AND make an unbelievable play to hold onto the ball. 95 times out of a 100, that ball is at worst incomplete, stops the clock and it's EASY to run 2 plays with the time remaining.

But Lockette tipped Bulter with his lean, and Butler made a play for the ages. Well for the next couple of years until he got under Beli's skin.

 

[chf]

My jaw hit the floor here too. Cowherd with Hawks at #10.

 

[JMR]

The idea that handling the ball off to Marshawn in that situation was a guaranteed touchdown was always a little odd to me.

I didn't mind a play call that didn't involve Lynch. I had more of an issue with the play they decided on. I think we could have done a little better than a slant pass to Ricardo Lockette, personally.

Looking at it from strictly a clock management & game situation angle, running on 2nd down with :30 left and only 1 TO remaining is the wrong move. The result of what we did is of course not what you wanted to have happen, but the only way to make sure you have a chance to use all 4 downs (and it would be stupid to leave even a single down unused) is to pass at least once. If you run on 2nd down and get stuffed, you have to burn your last TO...and then there's absolutely no doubt that you are passing on 3rd down. And as Bayless recalled correctly, Lynch was only 1 of 5 from the 1 that year....and 106 passes had been thrown from the 1 that season (yeah, believe it or not, we weren't the only team that decided to throw there) with 0 INTs. Whether a different pass play would have made more sense there is a much more worthy discussion or argument than how "dumb" it was not to give it Lynch....even though they did give it to him on 1st & goal and probably would have on both 3rd & 4th as well (which we could have done with in incomplete stopping the clock on 2nd down and then a TO if we ran on 3rd and got stopped). This may be the best example in the history of the NFL why doing the hindsight playcalling gripe is a mindless waste of time.

 

[Screamin12th]

i never had a problem with the play call, only people that are removing the whole clock element would have a problem with it. Also Kearse got no push on Browner ( not many WR could ) allowing Butler a straight path to where he needed to be and he jumped that route big time. Had Lockette faked the inside slant then released outside it would have been wide open. Butler sold out on that play and made the play of his life.

 

[chf]

Butler sold out on that play and made the play of his life.

Right and even selling out, you still probably don't PICK the ball more than 5 - 10% of the time.

 

[Anointed One]

The only problem I had w/ the play was I didn't think they had the right personnel in there... I've always stated to others that Marshawn at the GL wasn't a gimme since he was stuffed 4 out of 5 times already during the season....

 

[Screamin12th]

Right and even selling out, you still probably don't PICK the ball more than 5 - 10% of the time.

agreed, how it got past Lockettes hands with out being tipped was crazy. I swear it was millimeters. Lockette needed to run that play a lot harder than he did also. He didn't explode off the snap like he needed to. he did a slow halfhearted false forward step before cutting inside and Buttler was all ready making a beeline to the inside.

 

[JMR]

agreed, how it got past Lockettes hands with out being tipped was crazy. I swear it was millimeters. Lockette needed to run that play a lot harder than he did also. He didn't explode off the snap like he needed to. he did a slow halfhearted false forward step before cutting inside and Buttler was all ready making a beeline to the inside.

Yep, the execution on that play failed in 2 aspects: Kearse getting blown up by Browner, and Lockette's false step that caused him to be a half stride or so behind in his route. Change either of those things for the better, and we are b2b SB champs. It's going to haunt us forever, unfortunately.

 

[chf]

Yep, the execution on that play failed in 2 aspects: Kearse getting blown up by Browner, and Lockette's false step that caused him to be a half stride or so behind in his route. Change either of those things for the better, and we are b2b SB champs. It's going to haunt us forever, unfortunately.

And the thing that REALLY blew up the play, Lockette 'leaning' to tip Butler that the play was coming. Great film study by Butler.

 

[Anointed One]

agreed, how it got past Lockettes hands with out being tipped was crazy. I swear it was millimeters. Lockette needed to run that play a lot harder than he did also. He didn't explode off the snap like he needed to. he did a slow halfhearted false forward step before cutting inside and Buttler was all ready making a beeline to the inside.

That's the main reason I had a problem w/ the personnel on the field... We basically had our #5 or #6 WR on the depth chart in position to make the biggest play of his career... He had the least amount of experience... I didn't have an issue w/ the play call, just didn't understand why we chose Lockette as the guy who was going to get it thrown to him... ...

 

[chf]

That's the main reason I had a problem w/ the personnel on the field... We basically had our #5 or #6 WR on the depth chart in position to make the biggest play of his career... He had the least amount of experience... I didn't have an issue w/ the play call, just didn't understand why we chose Lockette as the guy who was going to get it thrown to him... ...

Because nobody on the Patriots (except Butler) thought that there was ANY way that the ball was going to Lockette? Because as Avril pointed out in the clip I linked yesterday, they'd run the play successfully already that year to Lockette?

 

[Anointed One]

Because nobody on the Patriots (except Butler) thought that there was ANY way that the ball was going to Lockette?

I don't buy that...

 

[pittpnthrs]

I always hear or read the Lynch getting stuffed 4 out of 5 times deal, but nobody ever mentions who it was against or the situation. Seattle plays in the NFC West where those other teams had formidable defenses with awesome Dlines. How many of those stops were against those teams? Anyways, he had just gashed the Patriots for 5 yards to get them to the 1 yard line and i'm sure he would have tried like never before to cross that goal line against a defense that was totally exhausted. Thats why the 4 out of 5 stat needs thrown out in that particular situation. Even if he doesnt make it, theres a timeout and the ball was in the hands of your most talented player. Instead, they call a play that the Patriots knew before the ball was even snapped, to the weakest receiver the team had. Horrible call that I will never agree with.

 

[JMR]

I always hear or read the Lynch getting stuffed 4 out of 5 times deal, but nobody ever mentions who it was against or the situation. Seattle plays in the NFC West where those other teams had formidable defenses with awesome Dlines. How many of those stops were against those teams? Anyways, he had just gashed the Patriots for 5 yards to get them to the 1 yard line and i'm sure he would have tried like never before to cross that goal line against a defense that was totally exhausted. Thats why the 4 out of 5 stat needs thrown out in that particular situation. Even if he doesnt make it, theres a timeout and the ball was in the hands of your most talented player. Instead, they call a play that the Patriots knew before the ball was even snapped, to the weakest receiver the team had. Horrible call that I will never agree with.

This is hair splitting. It was against NFL teams. The point is he got stopped 4/5 times from the 1, so it simply was NOT a given he would get in like some people seem to think. It was 2nd down, and we had 1 TO. The only chance to use all 4 downs is to pass at least 1 time. And I cannot remember how many TOs the Pats had, but had we scored with :30 remaining to take a 3 pt lead, I'm not convinced NE doesn't tie it up. They had enough time. Avril was out, Lane was out, and they already went through our defense for 2 TD drives in the quarter to take the lead. Our D was gassed and injured. And they had Tom Brady.

 

[chf]

I don't buy that...

Why not? There's a good long article written that quotes Belichek heavily. The package that they ran out on the field with on D, (heavy), there was pretty much nobody in the stadium who saw that slant coming, certainly not the Pats.

But Butler had done his film study, and as they lined up, he saw Lockette 'lean.' He decided to jump the route, end result was historic.

These aren't my words, they're the words of the Pats and Seahawks coaches and players who were there.

 

[chf]

I always hear or read the Lynch getting stuffed 4 out of 5 times deal, but nobody ever mentions who it was against or the situation. Seattle plays in the NFC West where those other teams had formidable defenses with awesome Dlines. How many of those stops were against those teams? Anyways, he had just gashed the Patriots for 5 yards to get them to the 1 yard line and i'm sure he would have tried like never before to cross that goal line against a defense that was totally exhausted. Thats why the 4 out of 5 stat needs thrown out in that particular situation. Even if he doesnt make it, theres a timeout and the ball was in the hands of your most talented player. Instead, they call a play that the Patriots knew before the ball was even snapped, to the weakest receiver the team had. Horrible call that I will never agree with.

Revisionist history. He'd been stuffed on short yardage IN THAT GAME!!!

The Pats came out in their jumbo run D package ON THAT PLAY!!!

The generally accepted best defensive coach in NFL history, SOLD OUT to stop Lynch on that play.

There wasn't time for three more plays if they run it there. Yes they burn the timeout and they can run another play on 3rd down. But then they HAVE to pass there if they want to have time left over for a potential 4th down play.

They COULD HAVE BEEN PICKED ON A THIRD DOWN PASS TOO!!!

Look, I don't mind people thinking that they should have run something else. I've been clear I wanted them to roll Russ out. He could then throw or scramble for the TD, or worse comes to worse, run or pass out of bounds.

But it's only in hindsight that they shouldn't have passed on that play.

They had to call at least one pass to get another three plays in.

 

[JMR]

Look, I don't mind people thinking that they should have run something else. I've been clear I wanted them to roll Russ out. He could then throw or scramble for the TD, or worse comes to worse, run or pass out of bounds.

It's the benefit of hindsight and years to think about it, but I think the best strategy would have been to have RW roll and waste as much time as possible and then either run OB or throw it away to give us 2 more plays to win the game and not leave NE with enough time to tie even with a TD on 3rd down. Even if the slant had resulted in a score, NE still has time for a FG.