Most outs made in MLB, year to date

[PolarVortex]

Ian Desmond 198
Matt Kemp 196
Fraudinson Cano 194 (your American League leader)
Melky Cabrera 189
Elvis Andrus 186
Jimmy Rollins 186
Martin prado 185

 

[NWinAZ]

Ya, but at least he is the highest paid player in all of baseball...lol. We're #1!!!

 

[PolarVortex]

I actually allowed myself a little glimmer of hope for Robbie after the first game in San Francisco when he put together five very good at bats. But then he followed that game up with yesterday's 0-4 including another three weak groundouts to middle infielders. Sigh.

 

[seahawksfan234]

I actually allowed myself a little glimmer of hope for Robbie after the first game in San Francisco when he put together five very good at bats. But then he followed that game up with yesterday's 0-4 including another three weak groundouts to middle infielders. Sigh.

I've heard the "weak groundout" statement in regards to Robbie quite a lot, people seem to believe he's hitting more of those.

Actually, he's hitting around the same amount of grounders as he did last year, a bit less actually.

Balls in play:
2014: 22.6% Line Drives, 52.6% Ground Balls, 24.7% Fly Balls. BABIP (Batting Average on Bals In Play): .335
2015: 23.8% Line Drives, 51.9% Ground Balls, 24.3% Fly Balls. BABIP: .284

In addition, Robinson Cano's fly balls have been going deeper (279 avg ft last year, 281 this year), yet his HR per fly ball has dropped from 9.16% to 2%.

And it's not like teams are suddenly playing him differently.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Half of Cano's problems are the bad luck, the other half is that he's striking out more.

In addition to striking out more, he's not making contact with as many pitches both inside the zone and outside the zone as he was before. In 2014 he made contact on 75.8% of pitches he swung at outside the zone, in 2015 that number has fallen to 69.6%. That regression is also seen for some reason on pitches swung at inside the zone as well, falling from 95.1% in 2014 to 91.1% in 2015. That could perhaps be attributed to age - maybe declining bat speed - but something that shouldn't be too hard to correct if the Mariners actually had a competent hitting coach.

Using some basic calculations, if Robinson Cano's BABIP was what it was last year (.335), he'd be hitting .284 right now. Also, if his fly balls went out at the same rate, he'd have around 7 HRs by now. Obviously still not good, but better.

The bigger problem is his strikeout rate. Say Robbie wasn't having bad luck, he'd still only be hitting .284. But perhaps if Cano didn't have that bad luck, his strikeout rate wouldn't have climbed so much, but that sort of contradicts the data since he's swinging at pitches inside and outside the zone at the same rate, just not hitting them as well.

 

[PolarVortex]

I've heard the "weak groundout" statement in regards to Robbie quite a lot, people seem to believe he's hitting more of those.

Actually, he's hitting around the same amount of grounders as he did last year, a bit less actually.

Balls in play:
2014: 22.6% Line Drives, 52.6% Ground Balls, 24.7% Fly Balls. BABIP (Batting Average on Bals In Play): .335
2015: 23.8% Line Drives, 51.9% Ground Balls, 24.3% Fly Balls. BABIP: .284

In addition, Robinson Cano's fly balls have been going deeper (279 avg ft last year, 281 this year), yet his HR per fly ball has dropped from 9.16% to 2%.

And it's not like teams are suddenly playing him differently.

234, you and i go back a ways. I know you mean well and I appreciate the stats. But, I've heard these excuses for under-performing Mariners for 21 years (I became a Ms fan in 1994 when I moved here from Alaska).

In 1999 it was Jeff Fassero. 'They' made excuses for him all year long but the bottom line was that he just went from a solid #2 to a shitty #5 over the course of a winter.
In 2002 it was Cirillo.
In 2003 it was Olerud.
In 2004 it was Spiezio and Piniero and Moyer.
In 2005 it was Boone.
In 2007 it was Sexson and Weaver.
In 2008 it was Carlos Silva and JJ Putz
In 2010 it was Kotchman and Griffey
In 2011 it was Figgins and Cust.
In 2012 it was Ackley and Smoak.
In 2013 it was Mike Morse.
Last year it was Corey Hart and Mike Zunino.

Sorry, but my optimism is all used up.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

I've heard the "weak groundout" statement in regards to Robbie quite a lot, people seem to believe he's hitting more of those.

Actually, he's hitting around the same amount of grounders as he did last year, a bit less actually.

Balls in play:
2014: 22.6% Line Drives, 52.6% Ground Balls, 24.7% Fly Balls. BABIP (Batting Average on Bals In Play): .335
2015: 23.8% Line Drives, 51.9% Ground Balls, 24.3% Fly Balls. BABIP: .284

In addition, Robinson Cano's fly balls have been going deeper (279 avg ft last year, 281 this year), yet his HR per fly ball has dropped from 9.16% to 2%.

And it's not like teams are suddenly playing him differently.

He can't hit off speed stuff anymore, which is what used to be his bread and butter. Trend started in last year's 2nd half. Anything can happen, but I'm pretty sure his goose is cooked.

When a team like the Yankees lets their best player walk in free agency, I wouldn't want to be a fan of the team that signs that player.

I guess the good news is, there's only seven and a half years left on his contract, so this too shall pass.

 

[gowazzu02]

He can't hit off speed stuff anymore, which is what used to be his bread and butter. Trend started in last year's 2nd half. Anything can happen, but I'm pretty sure his goose is cooked.

When a team like the Yankees lets their best player walk in free agency, I wouldn't want to be a fan of the team that signs that player.

I guess the good news is, there's only seven and a half years left on his contract, so this too shall pass.

You know you may be right.........but atleast we dont live in Cleveland! so we got that going for us! Steph Curry with the step back, SPLASH in bronbrons eye! Ill save you the time, something clever about the Sonics. Which i'll counter with two words. The Browns.

Now get off my lawn,.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

You know you may be right.........but atleast we dont live in Cleveland! so we got that going for us! Steph Curry with the step back, SPLASH in bronbrons eye! Ill save you the time, something clever about the Sonics. Which i'll counter with two words. The Browns.

Now get off my lawn,.

I don't give a shit about basketball. Not a Browns fan either. You'll have to try harder.

Good to know that in the Mariners' forum, instead of thought-out, on topic responses, I can expect to get invited into childish pissing contests.

They told me you Mariners fans were a sensitive bunch, but damn. I'd give you an honest and accurate assessment of the Mariners, but I'd likely get banned for "trolling."

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

I guess the good news is, there's only seven and a half years left on his contract, so this too shall pass.

Oh, shit. I just realized something. It's 8.5 years left on Cano's contract, not 7.5.

I'm angry at numbers. Mea culpa.

 

[gowazzu02]

I don't give a shit about basketball. Not a Browns fan either. You'll have to try harder.

Good to know that in the Mariners' forum, instead of thought-out, on topic responses, I can expect to get invited into childish pissing contests.

They told me you Mariners fans were a sensitive bunch, but damn. I'd give you an honest and accurate assessment of the Mariners, but I'd likely get banned for "trolling."

The guy who has "im a dick and an asshole" on sig and avi shouldn't expect to get the benefit of the doubt. You came here made a point about off speed stuff then started trolling. Don't be mad cause I came back at you and trolled you better.

 

[NWinAZ]

I think cezero said it last week about Cano and the bad luck B.S. He is gotten out a lot with balls hit up the middle and that is not bad luck, that is lack of adjusting. They are playing him there.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

The guy who has "im a dick and an asshole" on sig and avi shouldn't expect to get the benefit of the doubt. You came here made a point about off speed stuff then started trolling. Don't be mad cause I came back at you and trolled you better.

Trolling? Mad? I don't think you know what those words mean.

Anywho. Enjoy your thread.

 

[PolarVortex]

I think cezero said it last week about Cano and the bad luck B.S. He is gotten out a lot with balls hit up the middle and that is not bad luck, that is lack of adjusting. They are playing him there.

I think Robbie has just reached a crossroads in his career. Whereas before, he could get by on natural talent alone, now he is going to have to work a little harder at his craft if he wants to stay on or near the top. And after witnessing his third embarrassing baserunner blunder of the year yesterday, I have to believe that he hasn't quite accepted this fact yet.

 

[PolarVortex]

Trolling? Mad? I don't think you know what those words mean.

Anywho. Enjoy your thread.

I went to the Rock and Roll Hall Of Fame in Cleveland. That's a really cool place to visit. Fortunately, I was able to avoid the rest of the city.

 

[NWinAZ]

I think Robbie has just reached a crossroads in his career. Whereas before, he could get by on natural talent alone, now he is going to have to work a little harder at his craft if he wants to stay on or near the top. And after witnessing his third embarrassing baserunner blunder of the year yesterday, I have to believe that he hasn't quite accepted this fact yet.

Not making any excuses for the worthless piece of crap, but he did change his routine this off season as well as breaking his toe. He said he would gain 20 lbs in the off season because he would lose it fast in the heat of NY and tried it last year with M's and it didn't melt off as fast. What does all this mean? Who the F knows, but I agree he needs to adjust and his adjustment in the off season was the wrong approach.

I did see him do something the other day that I have never seen him do before. They threw him an inside fastball that he grounded out to right-side but he never turned his hips and he actually swung across his body. It was like his lower half went up the middle and his upper half ended up facing 1B. Just awkward looking.

 

[seahawksfan234]

234, you and i go back a ways. I know you mean well and I appreciate the stats. But, I've heard these excuses for under-performing Mariners for 21 years (I became a Ms fan in 1994 when I moved here from Alaska).

In 1999 it was Jeff Fassero. 'They' made excuses for him all year long but the bottom line was that he just went from a solid #2 to a shitty #5 over the course of a winter.
In 2002 it was Cirillo.
In 2003 it was Olerud.
In 2004 it was Spiezio and Piniero and Moyer.
In 2005 it was Boone.
In 2007 it was Sexson and Weaver.
In 2008 it was Carlos Silva and JJ Putz
In 2010 it was Kotchman and Griffey
In 2011 it was Figgins and Cust.
In 2012 it was Ackley and Smoak.
In 2013 it was Mike Morse.
Last year it was Corey Hart and Mike Zunino.

Sorry, but my optimism is all used up.

I'm not trying to make excuses. I'm simply trying to say that his batting average should recover sooner rather than later. This is Robinson Cano we are talking about. People say he looks like he's not trying, I don't see it and you don't see it in the stats either. If anything, his increased K rate indicates he may be trying too hard.

If Cano doesn't make an adjustment at the plate (which he needs to do), that's on him. But I'm saying if he had the same BABIP that he did last year, he'd be hitting .280-.290. Worth $24m? Obviously not. But that's a hell of a lot better than his .230 or whatever he's at now.

Most of the stats indicate Robbie is the same player. The thing to worry about is the increased strikeout rate and that he's not making contact as frequently on the pitches he swings at.

I don't think Robinson Cano is washed up. In addition, I can't believe that Robinson Cano is washed up, the Mariners have too much invested in him. If he is washed up, this would be by far the worst contract in sports history by far.

There are a lot of things about this team that need to be held accountable, but there is an explanation for Cano's mediocre stat line. I will hold Robbie accountable for the fact that he has yet to adjust at the plate, but that accounts for only a third of his struggles. The other 2 thirds are a result of bad luck.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Not making any excuses for the worthless piece of crap, but he did change his routine this off season as well as breaking his toe. He said he would gain 20 lbs in the off season because he would lose it fast in the heat of NY and tried it last year with M's and it didn't melt off as fast. What does all this mean? Who the F knows, but I agree he needs to adjust and his adjustment in the off season was the wrong approach.

I did see him do something the other day that I have never seen him do before. They threw him an inside fastball that he grounded out to right-side but he never turned his hips and he actually swung across his body. It was like his lower half went up the middle and his upper half ended up facing 1B. Just awkward looking.

As I explained in my other two posts, 2/3 of it is bad luck. If his BABIP was the same as it was last year, he'd be hitting .284. The other third can be explained by him striking out a lot more, which can be connected to the fact that he's not making contact as frequently at the pitches he's swinging at. Perhaps that indicates a lack of bat speed, which could be a result of whatever weird offseason he had.

I'll hold him accountable for the fact that he's striking out more and walking less. But it would be ignorant to ignore the fact that a big part of it really is bad luck.

 

[seahawksfan234]

I think cezero said it last week about Cano and the bad luck B.S. He is gotten out a lot with balls hit up the middle and that is not bad luck, that is lack of adjusting. They are playing him there.

We'll have to agree to disagree because the stats say otherwise.

 

[cezero]

I've heard the "weak groundout" statement in regards to Robbie quite a lot, people seem to believe he's hitting more of those.

Actually, he's hitting around the same amount of grounders as he did last year, a bit less actually.

Balls in play:
2014: 22.6% Line Drives, 52.6% Ground Balls, 24.7% Fly Balls. BABIP (Batting Average on Bals In Play): .335
2015: 23.8% Line Drives, 51.9% Ground Balls, 24.3% Fly Balls. BABIP: .284

In addition, Robinson Cano's fly balls have been going deeper (279 avg ft last year, 281 this year), yet his HR per fly ball has dropped from 9.16% to 2%.

And it's not like teams are suddenly playing him differently.

read your own stats. the BABIP stat from both years shows that they don't have to play him different because he hits it right into the shift more regularly/predictably now.