Michigan vs PSU

[GoBlueNavyNuke]

I'm not suggesting you fire Hoke. I don't think we're nearly that close. But we're going to start to see more and more support for Hoke fade if we keep regressing as a team. There are plenty of highs under Hoke but the simple fact is that 1. Throughout all 3 years we have been a pretty bad road team 2. we haven't won very many games against high caliber teams.

I think it's also frustrating to see OSU hire Urban after going 6-7 and immediately turning them into a national contender.

Urban Meyer walked into a better situation at OSU than Hoke did at Michigan. Besides, even if let's say for arguments sake that we knew for a fact the Michigan would have better on field results if we could trade Hoke for Meyer, I wouldn't. The thing that gets under-appreciated that a major part of college football is the impact it has on the growth of these boys into men. And as a parent I would rather have my son have a coach like Hoke having a major influence on that process than a coach like Meyer.

 

[jalopy]

I don't think there is any heat on Hoke. Are they as good as we all wanted them to be this year...no. But we have to get beyond that and look at the big picture. First of all Hoke is still playing with RR's recruits that are square pegs in round holes in terms of the style of play that Hoke wants to play. Despite that major fact he is still winning. He won a bowl game, he darn near beat an SEC team in a bowl game. He's won a hackuva alot more than he has lost. He brought integrity back to the program. He brought top notch recruiting back. He has brought coaching consistency. What he needs is a QB thats not a dumbass, hopefully Morris is the guy.

Oh boy, here we go. The Obama argument. In case you haven't noticed, It is the RR recruits that are carrying this team. Without DG, this team doesn't win a game this year. Morris? A true frosh that hasn't played a meaningful game since his junior year in HS?

How many successful coaches in Year 3 still are blaming the previous coaches? None! Notta! Zilch!. I didn't hear Mattison bitching about "RR recruits" his first year. Now in year 3 they can't stop anyone.

This team is not good. It wasn't good Hoke's first year or his second year and is worse this year. Still, a coaching change at this point would set us back another 5 years. We will see coaching changes after this year but it won't be the HC. Funk? Gone! Borges? Likely!

 

[jalopy]

Urban Meyer walked into a better situation at OSU than Hoke did at Michigan. Besides, even if let's say for arguments sake that we knew for a fact the Michigan would have better on field results if we could trade Hoke for Meyer, I wouldn't. The thing that gets under-appreciated that a major part of college football is the impact it has on the growth of these boys into men. And as a parent I would rather have my son have a coach like Hoke having a major influence on that process than a coach like Meyer.

Great post GBNN. It is a shame that the economic impact won't allow the team to under-perform for long but the points you make are vastly underrated and too often ignored.

 

[GoBlueNavyNuke]

Oh boy, here we go. The Obama argument. In case you haven't noticed, It is the RR recruits that are carrying this team. Without DG, this team doesn't win a game this year. Morris? A true frosh that hasn't played a meaningful game since his junior year in HS?

How many successful coaches in Year 3 still are blaming the previous coaches? None! Notta! Zilch!. I didn't hear Mattison bitching about "RR recruits" his first year. Now in year 3 they can't stop anyone.

This team is not good. It wasn't good Hoke's first year or his second year and is worse this year. Still, a coaching change at this point would set us back another 5 years. We will see coaching changes after this year but it won't be the HC. Funk? Gone! Borges? Likely!

And is Hoke blaming the Rich Rod recruits? Listen, I get what your saying but there is some truth this. Right now the kids that were recruited for Rich Rod's system are the juniors and seniors while the kids for Hoke's are freshmen and sophomores. As I've mentioned elsewhere, this is a the tricky part, Hoke is now starting to get most of the pieces for his system, but they lack depth and experience. Does Funk need to be looked at as the O-line coach? Yes, but not every problem is his fault. You got three guys up front making mistakes that freshman make, and no coach can magically give a freshman the game experience of a senior.

 

[jalopy]

And is Hoke blaming the Rich Rod recruits? Listen, I get what your saying but there is some truth this. Right now the kids that were recruited for Rich Rod's system are the juniors and seniors while the kids for Hoke's are freshmen and sophomores. As I've mentioned elsewhere, this is a the tricky part, Hoke is now starting to get most of the pieces for his system, but they lack depth and experience. Does Funk need to be looked at as the O-line coach? Yes, but not every problem is his fault. You got three guys up front making mistakes that freshman make, and no coach can magically give a freshman the game experience of a senior.

No, Hoke has always been a stand up guy. But I was responding to the words of a poster that lay the blame at RR's feet. I understand the dramatic philosophy flip-flop that has occurred twice in the last few years at Michigan, but I try to differentiate between recruiting and coaching. Hoke can't get all the credit for his first year playing with ALL RR kids and now lay the blame on the him three years later (again, Not Hoke's claim)

I didn't hear the same claims on RR's behalf in his third year despite him inheriting considerably less talent than Hoke did. I realize RR's personality shortcomings but at this point, I regret not replacing him with a more like-minded coach.

Again, I really like Hoke's attitude, his recruiting approach and his honesty but if he is to continue to represent this university, the product on the field must improve. Right now, the biggest question hanging over his head is whether or not he is capable of leading this team. We will likely find out this winter because, absent a miraculous turnaround, Brandon will demand changes. Funk is the easy one but I think it will take a bigger sacrifice than that (Borges).

To salvage this season, we need to win 2 of 4 from MSU, NEB, Northwestern, and the nuts. Anything less and it could get ugly.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

Urban Meyer walked into a better situation at OSU than Hoke did at Michigan. Besides, even if let's say for arguments sake that we knew for a fact the Michigan would have better on field results if we could trade Hoke for Meyer, I wouldn't. The thing that gets under-appreciated that a major part of college football is the impact it has on the growth of these boys into men. And as a parent I would rather have my son have a coach like Hoke having a major influence on that process than a coach like Meyer.

I don't necessarily disagree with that, but I'm not sure why you have to trade quality of coaching for the integrity of the coach.

 

[jalopy]

I don't necessarily disagree with that, but I'm not sure why you have to trade quality of coaching for the integrity of the coach.

Successful college coaches often need to make tough decisions regarding players. It is unfortunate that integrity (I think in the way you are referring to the word) often conflicts with getting results on the field, in life, and in the classrooms. Hoke is definitely a players coach and that has helped in recruiting but could hinder him dealing with issues. I don't know of anything specific and am just talking in general.

I can relate your question back to Bo because I did know him on a limited basis as a person. His priority was respect. Not many of his underclassmen liked him much and most found him a surly, bitter man but those that survived came to adore the man. I could argue both ways on whether Bo had integrity but I do know that he did things his way, regardless of the consequences. It would be tougher for a coach like him to be successful in today's landscape.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

And is Hoke blaming the Rich Rod recruits? Listen, I get what your saying but there is some truth this. Right now the kids that were recruited for Rich Rod's system are the juniors and seniors while the kids for Hoke's are freshmen and sophomores. As I've mentioned elsewhere, this is a the tricky part, Hoke is now starting to get most of the pieces for his system, but they lack depth and experience. Does Funk need to be looked at as the O-line coach? Yes, but not every problem is his fault. You got three guys up front making mistakes that freshman make, and no coach can magically give a freshman the game experience of a senior.

I just want to point out that we started playing the same game when RR was failing in his 3rd year. "We need "his" guys" or "His guys are young"...it just makes me nervous to be making these excuses again.

Obviously Hoke isn't doing as poorly as Rich Rod, in fact, he's done quite well in instances. But the question becomes is his team doing as well as they should be given the talent recruited and the age of the players? I don't think he is.

I think Hoke went out and got one of the best DCs in the nation and then we went out and got an average OC who we overpay.

If we were simply showing signs of being young then I would have no problem with struggling against good teams. But it's scary that we're struggling not only against decent teams but against some of the worst teams in CFB. Freshman/Sophomores or not - that should not be happening, especially on offense with a RS Junior QB who's been here for 4 years and two NFL OL.

 

[GoBlueNavyNuke]

I don't necessarily disagree with that, but I'm not sure why you have to trade quality of coaching for the integrity of the coach.

I completely agree, the problem is finding a coach who is both a stand up guy and a great field general. Often you see coaches who are one but not the other.

 

[GoBlueNavyNuke]

I just want to point out that we started playing the same game when RR was failing in his 3rd year. "We need "his" guys" or "His guys are young"...it just makes me nervous to be making these excuses again.

Obviously Hoke isn't doing as poorly as Rich Rod, in fact, he's done quite well in instances. But the question becomes is his team doing as well as they should be given the talent recruited and the age of the players? I don't think he is.

I think Hoke went out and got one of the best DCs in the nation and then we went out and got an average OC who we overpay.

If we were simply showing signs of being young then I would have no problem with struggling against good teams. But it's scary that we're struggling not only against decent teams but against some of the worst teams in CFB. Freshman/Sophomores or not - that should not be happening, especially on offense with a RS Junior QB who's been here for 4 years and two NFL OL.

I think people are down playing Penn St. That's still a quality team and that's still a hostile environment. Now UConn and Akron on the other hand...............

 

[themuzzer]

I think people are down playing Penn St. That's still a quality team and that's still a hostile environment. Now UConn and Akron on the other hand...............

I'm not sold on PSU being a quality team. I'm convinced Michigan wins that game 7 out of 10 times.

We had our chance(s) to beat them.

Getting beat by a freshman QB is a tough pill to swallow.

UConn and Akron? I can't explain that. Either we are really really bad, or something else is amiss. Maybe one week looking bad, but two weeks in a row against those two teams.....Not pretty.