mcgehee / clint hurdle

[Illinest]

Mcgehee

1. In the midst of a hot streak that will soon end?

2. In shape and relaxed, will continue to hit for an OPS north of .800?

Clint Hurdle (assuming that hes the main batting coach since he had a rep for helping guys)

1. Able to help mcgehee and alvarez find their stroke because - unlike certain other players - they had some of the natural talent to succeed?

2. Irrelevant to the improved results of those two players.

 

[sychmd]

for june, the pirates are
2 in runs scored
2 in HR
4 in SB
4 in OPS

now that a couple people other than cutch are hitting, each person has a positive effect on others.
mcgehee is rocking, and is giving some nice protection to cutch and forces them to at least pitch to him a bit.
C is rocking
barmes is even 250 in june with good D
alvarez is producing
walker gets good pitches in the 2 spot ahead of cutch (right now whoever we put in 2 seems to have a good game.
GIJones is doing a great job at the plate.

if we could just get one of the presley/tabata couple to really produce, even a 280 and 330 would with some doubles, that could really set the table, because non of the rest of our players are a leadoff.
amazing our offensive punch for june was so great without a leadoff guy.

june avg is 7
june OBP is 8.

so we are scoring, but we are getting clutch hits as it seems we are more efficient than other teams with getting lesser amount of guys home more often. hope that sounds right to you all reading it.

 

[steelparrot]

Mcgehee has done some damage in the past, so he has a chance to put up good numbers the rest of the year. His competition for playing time is Tabata... we might as well run him out there everyday and see what happens.


I think Hurdle has helped them, how much who knows.

 

[magnumo]

Good questions.....

Mcgehee

1. In the midst of a hot streak that will soon end?

2. In shape and relaxed, will continue to hit for an OPS north of .800?

Clint Hurdle (assuming that hes the main batting coach since he had a rep for helping guys)

1. Able to help mcgehee and alvarez find their stroke because - unlike certain other players - they had some of the natural talent to succeed?

2. Irrelevant to the improved results of those two players.

Good questions, on both McGehee and Hurdle..... and I've been asking myself the same things.

McGehee: My optimistic side hopes that the good McGehee is for real and that last season was a fluke. However, 19 seasons have taken their toll, and my pessimistic side believes in the "hot streak which will soon end" notion. Right now, my optimism has a 60-40 edge..... but I'll settle for a .750 OPS.

I just checked his splits, and found that McGehee's OPS for the whole month of May was .only .339!! Hard to believe a major league position player could be THAT bad. I hope he can continue to hit as he has in June (.912 OPS), but that's probably asking too much. His June has him up to .694 for the season. That's a whole lot better than his .626 for the 2011 season, but not as good as his career .740 OPS or his two good years (.859 in 2009 and .801 in 2010). Yeah..... I'll look for .750 and hope he can make .800.

Hurdle: I don't think Hurdle should get a lot of credit for helping McGehee and Alvarez with their bats. If he DID help them, it took longer than it should have.

I see Hurdle's biggest strength as his motivation/leadership skills. That asset seems to be just right for this team..... and if he helped McGehee and Alvarez, I believe that aspect of his managerial skills have been more important that his "hitting coach" skills.

Meanwhile, I see Hurdle's in-game tactical skills as a mixed bag. I think he bunts too much and runs his team into too many outs.

On the other hand, I believe he's done an excellent job of handling the pitching staff. I used to be critical of him taking his pitchers out too soon (the low pitch counts of Pirate starters)..... but it's hard to argue with his results. He seems to have an uncanny ability of getting starting pitchers out of there BEFORE they implode, AND he's done a good job (IMO) of getting the most out of his bullpen.

Overall, I'm for keeping Hurdle.

 

[magnumo]

<snip>
if we could just get one of the presley/tabata couple to really produce, even a 280 and 330 would with some doubles, that could really set the table, because non of the rest of our players are a leadoff.
amazing our offensive punch for june was so great without a leadoff guy.
<snip>

During pre-season discussion on several boards, just about everyone was HOPING that Alvarez would perform..... but assuming that either Presley or Tabata or both would be a positive force for the offense.

Obviously, the front office was pinning a lot of hopes on our young corner OF's, as well.

What a difference less than half a season makes. For whatever reason, both Tabata and Presley have created a lot of doubt about their abilities and future usefulness to the team.

I remain hopeful that at least one of them will "find it." As you point out, a competent leadoff hitter would do wonders for this offense.

 

[Darkstone42]

I think regular at bats are a key for McGehee, and I think he's going to continue to get them as he continues to earn them. He's shown in the past that he can be a good hitter, and now he's in a good position to be that again.

As for Hurdle, I don't think he has anything to do with McGehee and Alvarez hitting in any direct capacity, but I do think he's the type of manager who tends to get the most out of the players on his team for the same reasons mags cited, and I think that's exactly what's happening right now.

As for Presley and Tabata, I think they were both expecting to perform coming into the year, and when it didn't happen, I think they started pressing. For Tabata specifically, it seems like he thinks the only way to get back on track is to hit the ball the other way every time up there, and it's really crippling his abilities as a hitter.

 

[Illinest]

I was never all that fond of tabata and presley. It was impossible to criticize presley last year when he was hitting but i know i was very clear about my doubts. I have never had much faith in either guy and i still think tabata is older than they say.

In my opinion starling marte is the guy who will finally fill one of those empty spots. If either of the others becomes a productive player then itll be just a bonus.

I also think that the pirates should expect to have to trade for or sign a free agent for the other side. Trading for someone like headley would be painful on the one hand, and might not be possible considering our assets and needs, but the pirates have shown very little competence when it comes to finding free agents.

 

[sychmd]

mags, i agree 100%. hurdle is not a great tactician, doubt he is even average. but he is a great leader, and motivator for this young team. he makes them hungry and takes all the heat. they never seem to feel like they dont have a chance. they seem to realize they are at teh same level as the opponents and with more determination and chemistry, they have a better chance of winning.
when he sends them down or sits them, he communicates it is not a punishment, but to help you. very important as a leader.

tabata is young and i think will be the one.
presley reminds me of mcclouth, hot for a season or 2 but no lasting production.
tabata signed the big contract and i think he puts too much pressure of being clemente. once hurdle chills him out and tabata just plays relaxed ball, i think he can still be an important piece of the puzzle long term or as a significant trade chip.

as darkstone said, mcgehee needs regular atbats. the platoon in apr and may just didnt agree with him. hitting behind cutch improved the situation and pitches he saw as well and he has done o nice job of being a major league hitter and taking advantage of it.

 

[26 elroy face]

I think most of the credit for the improved hitting should go to the June schedule.
3 games at Milwaukee
3 games at Cincinnati
3 games at Baltimore
3 games at Cleveland
4 games at Philadelphia
Thats 16 games in band boxes. McGehee can reach those fences, but at PNC he has warning track power.

 

[sychmd]

that is great,
we can hit on the road.
and have the best record in baseball at home.

see what a difference in our power numbers on the road.

 

[element1286]

McGehee - #2: With the caveat he doesn't play everyday. I think he needs regular ab's, but not play everyday, 4-5 starts per week, and pinch hitting duties.

Hurdle - #1: With the caveat he was also presiding over the team when they couldn't hit anything in April.

I think Tabata needs to go to Indy at this point. Wehner pointed out on the broadcast last night how much pitchers are pounding Tabata in, and he can't do anything with those pitches, that is something he can work on in Indy.

 

[thecrow124]

McGehee - #2: With the caveat he doesn't play everyday. I think he needs regular ab's, but not play everyday, 4-5 starts per week, and pinch hitting duties.

Hurdle - #1: With the caveat he was also presiding over the team when they couldn't hit anything in April.

I think Tabata needs to go to Indy at this point. Wehner pointed out on the broadcast last night how much pitchers are pounding Tabata in, and he can't do anything with those pitches, that is something he can work on in Indy.

If i remember correctly, Tony Gwynn was struggling one year because he was trying to hit everything the other way and pitchers were pounding him in. He said he talked with Ted Williams and Ted told him that until he started getting aggressive and pulling that pitch they would continue to pound him in. That season i believe that Gwynn set his career high in HR's, and pitchers stopped pitching in so much to him.

 

[element1286]

If i remember correctly, Tony Gwynn was struggling one year because he was trying to hit everything the other way and pitchers were pounding him in. He said he talked with Ted Williams and Ted told him that until he started getting aggressive and pulling that pitch they would continue to pound him in. That season i believe that Gwynn set his career high in HR's, and pitchers stopped pitching in so much to him.

Good info Crow, I have been wishing for him to start pulling pitches for a long time.