Matt Cain

[msgkings322]

How do we all feel about Bonds wanting to be our hitting coach?

His negatives outweigh his positives IMO, especially when you consider his positives are just VORBC.

 

[Heathbar012]

Beyond the steroid and journalist stuff, I just think it's difficult for someone who is naturally good at something to teach someone else who likely isn't as adept at it. Granted, all major league baseball players are talented, but very few have the given ability that Barry Bonds possesses.

I don't think the Cardinals offense necessarily suffered from having Mark McGwire as a hitting coach, but I believe they should've scored more runs and been a better team this year. I haven't read anything about communication break downs between McGwire and his players, but I assume it has to be an issue when Hall of Famers are talking to lifetime .260 hitters.

If the Giants do decide to bring in Bonds, I will, of course, welcome it, but I'll be skeptical that it will have the type of improvement most would expect. In the end, there is really only so much a hitting instructor can do. More than anything, it'll likely make Barry realize that he should've been DHing somewhere for the last three years, and possibly, the next two.

 

[filosofy29]

Beyond the steroid and journalist stuff, I just think it's difficult for someone who is naturally good at something to teach someone else who likely isn't as adept at it. Granted, all major league baseball players are talented, but very few have the given ability that Barry Bonds possesses.

I don't think the Cardinals offense necessarily suffered from having Mark McGwire as a hitting coach, but I believe they should've scored more runs and been a better team this year. I haven't read anything about communication break downs between McGwire and his players, but I assume it has to be an issue when Hall of Famers are talking to lifetime .260 hitters.

If the Giants do decide to bring in Bonds, I will, of course, welcome it, but I'll be skeptical that it will have the type of improvement most would expect. In the end, there is really only so much a hitting instructor can do. More than anything, it'll likely make Barry realize that he should've been DHing somewhere for the last three years, and possibly, the next two.

Wayne Gretzky.....best hockey player of all time. Horrible coach. A new Coach who was a average to below average player (Dave Tippet) comes in with a less talented group than Teh Great One had and turns them into a playoff team.

Not saying this would necessarily happen if Bonds became hitting coach. But it could happen. Also the sideshow act of having him might affect the cohesion that is currently in the dugout.

 

[msgkings322]

It is very hard to come up with the names of hall of fame level players who have gone on to be good coaches in their sports, for reasons Heathbar describes. Just because you have a gift doesn't mean you can teach it. And in fact often it's being mediocre at the task that gives you insight into how to get better and how to teach that to others.

Mike Ditka was a great player, and I guess a great coach...was he though?
We all see how well Singletary's HOF career trained him to coach.
In baseball the best were mediocre players, like LaRussa, Cox, Leyland, etc.
Other sports too.
Outside of Ditka I can't think of a great player who becomes a great coach in any sport.

 

[Heathbar012]

Thanks for making my thought more coherent with better examples, filo and msg. It does make sense that it's difficult to communicate greatness effectively. Matt Cain is awesome.

 

[tzill]

Beyond the steroid and journalist stuff, I just think it's difficult for someone who is naturally good at something to teach someone else who likely isn't as adept at it. Granted, all major league baseball players are talented, but very few have the given ability that Barry Bonds possesses.

I don't think the Cardinals offense necessarily suffered from having Mark McGwire as a hitting coach, but I believe they should've scored more runs and been a better team this year. I haven't read anything about communication break downs between McGwire and his players, but I assume it has to be an issue when Hall of Famers are talking to lifetime .260 hitters.

If the Giants do decide to bring in Bonds, I will, of course, welcome it, but I'll be skeptical that it will have the type of improvement most would expect. In the end, there is really only so much a hitting instructor can do. More than anything, it'll likely make Barry realize that he should've been DHing somewhere for the last three years, and possibly, the next two.

Oh, I have no illusions that BBombs will be a great full-time instructor. However, I would note that he seems very motivated to stay connected to the Giants and is no longer playing. He could end up being a lot like his G-dfather, who can be a surly prick but dispenses wisdom frequently to Giants players. He won't replace (nor should he replace) Meullens. He'd be a special advisor much like JT is for the 1b. I just want to keep him close to the club. He's a fucking legend and no steroid bullshit will ever change that.

 

[tzill]

It is very hard to come up with the names of hall of fame level players who have gone on to be good coaches in their sports, for reasons Heathbar describes. Just because you have a gift doesn't mean you can teach it. And in fact often it's being mediocre at the task that gives you insight into how to get better and how to teach that to others.

Mike Ditka was a great player, and I guess a great coach...was he though?
We all see how well Singletary's HOF career trained him to coach.
In baseball the best were mediocre players, like LaRussa, Cox, Leyland, etc.
Other sports too.
Outside of Ditka I can't think of a great player who becomes a great coach in any sport.

Don Nelson, off the top of my head.

 

[msgkings322]

Oh, I have no illusions that BBombs will be a great full-time instructor. However, I would note that he seems very motivated to stay connected to the Giants and is no longer playing. He could end up being a lot like his G-dfather, who can be a surly prick but dispenses wisdom frequently to Giants players. He won't replace (nor should he replace) Meullens. He'd be a special advisor much like JT is for the 1b. I just want to keep him close to the club. He's a fucking legend and no steroid bullshit will ever change that.

This.

 

[Heathbar012]

Don Nelson, off the top of my head.

Definitely more likely in basketball. Especially, today's NBA that caters to star players. Also, I certainly agree that Bonds should be around the team, and shouldn't replace anybody from the current coaching staff. Adviser is a much better title for him, but if someone leaves, he might want serious consideration for the position. That's when the ego becomes a problem.

 

[msgkings322]

Don Nelson, off the top of my head.

Don Nelson was a good player. Was he great? Not HOF if I recall correctly.

Nope: 6th man really
Don Nelson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There have been good players who become great coaches, but i don't think great/HOF level players have become good/great coaches.

Good players who have become good coaches: Jerry Sloan, Lou Pinella, Joe Torre, there's quite a few.

Here's a possibility: Yogi Berra was the best of the best as a player, and actually a good manager too. Maybe there's the exception?

 

[SFGRTB]

Oh, I have no illusions that BBombs will be a great full-time instructor. However, I would note that he seems very motivated to stay connected to the Giants and is no longer playing. He could end up being a lot like his G-dfather, who can be a surly prick but dispenses wisdom frequently to Giants players. He won't replace (nor should he replace) Meullens. He'd be a special advisor much like JT is for the 1b. I just want to keep him close to the club. He's a fucking legend and no steroid bullshit will ever change that.

Agreed. I'd like him to stay and be part of the family again, but Bam-Bam doesn't deserve to get the boot. I guess if Wotus leaves for Pittsburg to be the manager, Bonds could be the bench coach. I still think that he should just be a special assistant as of now.

 

[TidrowThePitchingMaster]

Oh, I have no illusions that BBombs will be a great full-time instructor. However, I would note that he seems very motivated to stay connected to the Giants and is no longer playing. He could end up being a lot like his G-dfather, who can be a surly prick but dispenses wisdom frequently to Giants players. He won't replace (nor should he replace) Meullens. He'd be a special advisor much like JT is for the 1b. I just want to keep him close to the club. He's a fucking legend and no steroid bullshit will ever change that.

Nail. On. Head. Me like this idea very much. I think Bam Bam has done an okay job this year, and Bonds as a special assistant or something like that would be the best idea.

Now if only we could get Shawon Dunston to stick to coaching infield defense and not worry about hitting...

 

[xxERICSMITHXX]

I understand the thinking that great players just can't relate to average players when it comes to teaching, but wasn't Barry always good about helping guys on the team?

For some reason I think I remember him helping out guys like Cain a lot because he is so knowledgeable about hitting and would just talk to them about how to approach hitters whenever they had questions. Hasn't he also taken the time to work with guys in spring training on their hitting?

I don't think he should start out as the hitting coach, but I would love for the Giants to bring him aboard. I think just having him talk plate discipline, hitting mechanics, etc. with all the young guys (hitters and pitchers) would be a real benefit.

 

[tzill]

Don Nelson was a good player. Was he great? Not HOF if I recall correctly.

Nope: 6th man really
Don Nelson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There have been good players who become great coaches, but i don't think great/HOF level players have become good/great coaches.

Good players who have become good coaches: Jerry Sloan, Lou Pinella, Joe Torre, there's quite a few.

Here's a possibility: Yogi Berra was the best of the best as a player, and actually a good manager too. Maybe there's the exception?

John McGraw?

 

[SF11704]

Think everyone understands the value that BB COULD bring to the organization. My only concern would be "Can he be controlled or will he take a position that he is bigger than the organization". Don't get me wrong. I loved BB as a player but I think there were times he put him self above the team and his team mates. It would be very damaging to the team if he attempted that from a coaching or special assistant position.

 

[SFAnthem]

Make him a special advisor, like tzill says, he is part of the Giants family. Definitely need to monitor the ego, though. Bonds has a wealth of knowledge... has the reputation of a highly cerebral hitter..but known to have a grating personality. Wasnt dusty the hitting instructor and Bobby the special assistant before? It can work..at the very least it will contractually inhibit Bonds from helping other teams out.

 

[nateistheshi]

My fear about this team is on their image. They were a bunch of nobodies until they took the somebodies outside, whipped their asses, and then went back in the bar and casually continually drinking their beer. Just a few seasons the face of this franchise was steroids, and I have a fear that assholes in the media will be bitter and take this issue with Guillen (even though he was here like 2 months) and Bonds if he becomes reattached to this club, and they will paint this out to be a steroids fueled franchise once again. It'd definitely be a slap in the face to these players to be immediately associated with that after what they've accomplished.

 

[nateistheshi]

Want an example of how underrated and underappreciated Matt Cain is? A bunch of Giants fans on a message board decide to dedicate a thread to how awesome he is...15 posts later we're all talking about Barry Bonds. hahaha

 

[iHATEdodgers]

Want an example of how underrated and underappreciated Matt Cain is? A bunch of Giants fans on a message board decide to dedicate a thread to how awesome he is...15 posts later we're all talking about Barry Bonds. hahaha

Hehe, no respect for Cain! I tried to point that out around the 20th post, but I was pushed back by a wave of Bonds!

At least the conversation is still related to the Giants and isn't infested with trolls. Woohoo for this board!

MATT CAIN IS THE GREATNESS

 

[SFAnthem]

Want an example of how underrated and underappreciated Matt Cain is? A bunch of Giants fans on a message board decide to dedicate a thread to how awesome he is...15 posts later we're all talking about Barry Bonds. hahaha

That's the beauty of Matt Cain, he has an unassuming presence that matches his pitching style.

He has that "I didn't come here to impress you..I came here to shut you down" approach to him.