Marvin Jones

[flamingrey]

As you said, it is the system, and Dalton is as much of that system as the offensive line. So in order for the offensive line to be ranked what they are, Dalton still has to do what he does for that to make a difference.

Like I have said many times, Dalton needs to improve a lot over last year, but the 2nd year is usually the hardest. Professional coaches with tons more experience figure out a way to fluster the young QB's before they learn how to adjust themselves. The OL still can't be ranked as high as they were if not for Dalton doing his part in the system. Just saying.

You could replace Dalton with just about any QB in the league and get the same ranking. It doesn't take anything special to take a 3 step drop and throw the ball to the first read.

And the part that you're conveniently ignoring is PFF's rankings eliminate every factor possible to determine their rankings. My guess would be that any play in which the ball is out within 2.5 seconds (what number PFF uses, I'm not sure) does not get considered in determining pass protection ability.

#2 in ranking means #2 considering everything else equal (to other teams).

 

[cincygrad]

Simpleton.

Lighten up Ginger.

 

[cincygrad]

Thanks for posting that. It's been a while and actually helped recollect my memory. You are correct that Dalton was one of the quickest getting the ball out, but incorrect in the assertion that the o-line can thank Dalton for it. It's a product of the system. By design - typical for a WCO type of system in any case - Gruden has the ball coming out of Dalton's hands quickly.

It's when the system or the defense doesn't allow him a quick outlet is when he gets flustered and holds the ball too long and makes the o-line look bad. As I mentioned in my previous post, I do believe this was evidenced by PFF in showing how long the o-line is able to maintain the pocket when obviously the system/defense isn't allowing Dalton to get rid of the ball. For it to count in this category, I believe the ball has to be in the QB's hand for so much time (again, all off recollection...but PFF does a great job grading individuals and individual groups, and they're excellent at not allowing things like fastest release skew their analyses). THAT is what the #2 ranking is based off of.

So again, Dalton releasing the ball the fastest in the league - which I was wrong about - does not have an effect on that #2 ranking.

Wow, you created an entire argument out of thin air -- Without a single statistic to support it. Good job.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

You could replace Dalton with just about any QB in the league and get the same ranking. It doesn't take anything special to take a 3 step drop and throw the ball to the first read.

And the part that you're conveniently ignoring is PFF's rankings eliminate every factor possible to determine their rankings. My guess would be that any play in which the ball is out within 2.5 seconds (what number PFF uses, I'm not sure) does not get considered in determining pass protection ability.

#2 in ranking means #2 considering everything else equal (to other teams).

Couldn't it be equally stated that any OL player would produce nearly the same results in the same system? So basically we are praising / slamming Gruden, not the offense. Because everything is a result of Gruden himself.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

You could replace Dalton with just about any QB in the league and get the same ranking. It doesn't take anything special to take a 3 step drop and throw the ball to the first read.

And the part that you're conveniently ignoring is PFF's rankings eliminate every factor possible to determine their rankings. My guess would be that any play in which the ball is out within 2.5 seconds (what number PFF uses, I'm not sure) does not get considered in determining pass protection ability.

#2 in ranking means #2 considering everything else equal (to other teams).

I would like to know how they make everything else equal. I mean, they take the field conditions, weather, opponent strength, time, distance, mass vs. velocity, rock vs. hard place, etc into account? I mean, what exactly does equalling the playing field mean, since it is basically impossible to equal any playing field in a professional sport, or any sport for that matter.

 

[flamingrey]

Wow, you created an entire argument out of thin air -- Without a single statistic to support it. Good job.

The statistic exists. It's well known. I just don't pay for PFF to be able to access it at my leisure.

 

[flamingrey]

I would like to know how they make everything else equal. I mean, they take the field conditions, weather, opponent strength, time, distance, mass vs. velocity, rock vs. hard place, etc into account? I mean, what exactly does equalling the playing field mean, since it is basically impossible to equal any playing field in a professional sport, or any sport for that matter.

"Eliminate every factor POSSIBLE".

Everything in their control within reason. You can set a control for how long a QB has to physically have possession of the ball to be able to accurately judge the effectiveness of the o-line. You isolate 4-man rushes, blitz, etc. Help from a RB/TE. The only difficult one is opponent strength. Not sure if they do anything there, but over a 16 game season, the averages gradually shift closer to the center for all teams.

Time, distance, mass vs. velocity. WTF are you talking about? We're talking about o-line here. I realize you're trying to be cute, but it's okay to simply admit when you just don't get it.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

"Eliminate every factor POSSIBLE".

Everything in their control within reason. You can set a control for how long a QB has to physically have possession of the ball to be able to accurately judge the effectiveness of the o-line. You isolate 4-man rushes, blitz, etc. Help from a RB/TE. The only difficult one is opponent strength. Not sure if they do anything there, but over a 16 game season, the averages gradually shift closer to the center for all teams.

Time, distance, mass vs. velocity. WTF are you talking about? We're talking about o-line here. I realize you're trying to be cute, but it's okay to simply admit when you just don't get it.

Yeah, I don't get it. I would like to know "EXACTLY" how they equal the criteria out to be able to determine this. Seems like too great of a list of things they would have to eliminate in order to try and make this a competitive balance. I just do not see how Dalton can't figure into this. If he gets rid of the ball in 2.4 seconds from the time he takes the snap to the time he releases it, the offensive lineman do not have to spend as much time blocking. Therefore, there was less pressure on Dalton. So if Dalton was not pressured, hurried, sacked, knocked down, batted ball and he gets rid of the ball in 2.4 seconds, how is that not helping the offensive line and that ranking? I would have to think that pressures, hurried, sacked, knocked down, balls batted have to play into this equation for an offensive lineman and his ranking. I mean, outside "pancake" blocks, what other stat is there that belongs to just an offensive lineman?

 

[futballiscool]

I don't think you'd get much disagreement there. Sanu was considered an NFL slot receiver coming out of the draft.

I think he can play on the outside, and then slide into the slot on certain 3 WR packages. Like TJ, Welker etc

He had 115 catches his final season at Rutgers. He had 4 tds in his final 3 games as a rookie before getting injured.

There's enough production where he deserves a chance to start on a team without a clear cut #2