Mark Appel a bust ?

[StanMarsh51]

so after a day to think about it please tell us how you feel about taking time out of your day to find out how many "teenage position players" are in the California League. BTW I'm not going to spend time checking your "facts" but I would bet anything you are wrong ... not that it matters.

Takes less than 2 minutes. You can just click on each team and sort by age (so easy, even grandma and grandpa might be able to do this). Not to mention, the average age in that league is almost 23, yet you seem to think it's full of teenagers?

2014 California League Statistics - Baseball-Reference.com

In fact, more position players 30+ years old have played in that league this year than teenagers. Your perception is far from reality.

 

[Loneranger]

Among players with 95+ at bats, Billy McKinney and Carlos Correa are the only 19-year-olds in the California League. It took me all of 1-2 minutes to find this.

2014 California League Batting Leaders - Baseball-Reference.com

well aren't you special ! Mark Appel is proving to be one of the biggest flops in recent memory and you guys want to defend him by how many teenagers he's pitching against becuz I made a comment about him getting raked by the same. The fact is Appel is a joke , taking time to look up the number of teenagers in the California League is quite ridiculous .... but why would I expect anything different here ?

 

[navamind]

Fangraphs also has sortable minor league stats. I used to check in case there were any other teenagers who didn't meet the 95 AB criteria, but the only one that did was Julio Urias... and he's a pitcher.

 

[Loneranger]

Takes about 2 minutes. You can just click on each team and sort by age (so easy, even grandma and grandpa might be able to do this). Not to mention, the average age in that league is almost 23, yet you seem to think it's full of teenagers?

2014 California League Statistics - Baseball-Reference.com

In fact, more position players 30+ years old have played in that league this year than teenagers. Your perception is far from reality.

no actually my perception IS reality. Appel is playing in a league full of guys who have proven they can't play. So what exactly does that make him? He's getting hammered every single time he steps on the mound no matter who's at the plate. If you want to claim a 30 yr old in A Ball is a serious talent then you obviously have never played .... I have and can attest to the "talent" he's facing and there isn't much of it. BTW his team just completed a 4 game sweep - Appel didn't throw a pitch in any of those games. They can't win 5 straight because it's his turn again.

 

[Lord Scalious]

no actually my perception IS reality. Appel is playing in a league full of guys who have proven they can't play. So what exactly does that make him? He's getting hammered every single time he steps on the mound no matter who's at the plate. If you want to claim a 30 yr old in A Ball is a serious talent then you obviously have never played .... I have and can attest to the "talent" he's facing and there isn't much of it. BTW his team just completed a 4 game sweep - Appel didn't throw a pitch in any of those games. They can't win 5 straight because it's his turn again.

Well, There is good amount of RAW talent in high A.

Most of these guys are 21-23 years old. Some 24-25 year olds, some 20 year olds. They usually release guys well before 30 in high A. You must be thinking of Triple A. Where all the old has beens and never were's are at..

 

[StanMarsh51]

no actually my perception IS reality. Appel is playing in a league full of guys who have proven they can't play. So what exactly does that make him? He's getting hammered every single time he steps on the mound no matter who's at the plate. If you want to claim a 30 yr old in A Ball is a serious talent then you obviously have never played .... I have and can attest to the "talent" he's facing and there isn't much of it. BTW his team just completed a 4 game sweep - Appel didn't throw a pitch in any of those games. They can't win 5 straight because it's his turn again.

Your perception was that the guys hitting off Appel are teenagers.

Is that reality? It's a simple yes/no question.

If you answer no, then my statement stands: your perception is not reality...it's not difficult to grasp.


You were willing to "bet anything that I'm wrong," and when it turns out that you were wrong (which you cannot deny), you're saying that you're the one seeing reality? :rollseyes:

 

[Loneranger]

Your perception was that the guys hitting off Appel are teenagers.

Is that reality? It's a simple yes/no question.

If you answer no, then my statement stands: your perception is not reality...it's not difficult to grasp.


You were willing to "bet anything that I'm wrong," and when it turns out that you were wrong (which you cannot deny), you're saying that you're the one seeing reality? :rollseyes:

ok I'll put it to you this way. He's getting his ass kicked by A Ball players when he's supposed to be knocking on the Astros door by now. Please don't try to educate me on the talent in in A Ball and make it sound as though this is expected. I played more than enough minor league ball to know exactly what he's facing , not to mention I've spent plenty of time working in the game. You aren't going to educate me and cover for the fact Appel is nowhere neat what he's been made out to be, Of course there are many who aren't surprised by there are many who're shocked. My point all along is he is proving he isn't what he and many others thought. The numbers he's putting up are indefensible - there are 30th round HS kids who do better than that on a daily basis

 

[Loneranger]

An extra day of rest was just what the Dr. ordered for my boy Appel. Last nite a pitchers duel broke out and Appel produced a line like this : 1 2/3 IP , 7 hits , 7 ER. Appel on the fast track now!

 

[Loneranger]

I'm wondering how much longer this goes on before Appel's "camp" (all the big guys have a "camp") blames this all on the Astros. I'm guessing that day is very near.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

I am not watching Appel every time he pitches exactly, so I can't say for sure, but when a babip is over 400 in high A for a now 23 year old pitcher, that is awfully concerning. Normally a high babip can be dismissed as just dumb luck/Minor league defense flubbing it for pitchers. Other times though, the explanation can be that the pitcher is just fairly hittable- and gets hit hard because of it.


http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=sa501726&position=P

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Lol. Hyped to the moon? He was never really regarded as a future superstar. According to John Sickels, for example, he was seen as a guy with a limited ceiling, but had a very good chance of being a quality pitcher that could log in a bunch of innings.

I don't know, in some ways when someone is touted as a legit major leaguer who can log a bunch of "quality" innings before he even made it to AA would translate as a lot of hype to many people- including myself. Depends on your perspective I suppose.

 

[stillmatic32]

I think if he pronounced his name Apple he could turn everything around.

 

[Loneranger]

I don't know, in some ways when someone is touted as a legit major leaguer who can log a bunch of "quality" innings before he even made it to AA would translate as a lot of hype to many people- including myself. Depends on your perspective I suppose.

I hear this other guy claim Appel was never touted as a future star and I LMMFAO. This kid was shoved down our throats for 2 yrs as being MLB ready , the best pitcher in the country , top of the rotation blah blah blah. Then when something like this happens we get these guys claiming they never thought he was that good. It's the typical horseshit we expect no matter what the situation. Appel was claimed by countless blowhards to be a top of the rotation ML pitcher who would be ready very soon. One of those guys who was gonna make a quick visit to AA , loosen up and blow away a few guys and then come to Houston. He isn't any closer than I am right now. If you look at his numbers he is getting his ass kicked in every ballpark he steps in at a rate that looks like wiffle ball. He's getting fuckin crushed every single time he hits the hill. Still we're talking about a guy who was a top of the heap draftee twice so how many people were/are wrong about this kid ? This kind of shit doesn't happen , not in this day and age. I would feel bad for the kid if he wasn't such a uppity douche bag who thought he was above it all and too good to play in Pitt and other places. Make no mistake about it , there's a lot of people in the game who have no sympathy for him. I haven't heard anything about him being hurt or anything even close. Still ya gotta wonder if something is physically wrong with the guy. Mentally he has to be shot by now , but still he should be able to get someone out even if he can't tie his shoes. Right now he literally can't get an out and that is incredible.

 

[Loneranger]

my big mouth will probably ensure this happens : Appel has a couple decent outings in Aug. and the 'Stros bring him to Houston during Sept.callups. He gets a start and throws a fuckin no-no. Don't even come looking for me 'cuz i'll be gone !

 

[HammerDown]

 

[Loneranger]

[MEDIA=twitter]489608048877400064[/MEDIA]

I have to agree. If I were making the decision I would promote him asap and i'm not kidding. His confidence is damaged for sure and he needs a change of scenery. I would treat him as though "we know how good you are and we aren't concerned so you shouldn't be either". Demote could be real bad for him no matter the results , leaving him there is probably gonna do more damage. Players in that league can't wait to face him and that ain't good. It'll be interesting to see how they handle this. There is always the possibility they make the horrendous mistake of moving him to the pen thinking they're taking pressure off him. That would be an enormous mistake IMO. We'll assume the kid is a competitor - maybe he isn't but I assume he is - if so then he wants to throw as often as possible and wants to prove himself. Move him up and show some confidence in him and put him in a different park with different people and do it asap. We'll see

 

[Loneranger]

Let's give credit where credit is due. Last nite Appel went 6inn. for the 1st time. He only gave up 2 ER and struck out 7 AND got the win ! Good for you son , carry on.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Jose de Jesus OrtizVerified account ‏@OrtizKicks [ame="[MEDIA=twitter]493427948121108480[/MEDIA]"]58m[/ame] In a sport that prides itself on having guys pay dues, the Astros didn't help perception in clubhouse that Appel is being babied.

 

[Loneranger]

here's what we know:
Appel is sent to Houston to throw a bullpen in front of Astros coaches/front office. So what's the big deal? There isn't one except one of the anonymous players complaining about it is gonna lose his job when Appel comes to town.
The Astros obviously are following this thread becuz they moved him up to AA just as I suggested last week and for the reasons I suggested. Does he deserve to be there? Of course not but what are they gonna do with him? They have to move him somewhere and moving him down would be a disaster. That's what next year is for. Right now they gotta salvage what's left of his confidence and get him in a different setting.
Don't lose sight of the fact the Astros have a lot of coin tied up in this kid and they have to do whatever's necessary to get him straightened out. I don't blame the 'Stros for bringing him to town and wouldn't give 2 shits what any player has to say about it. I would remind the anonymous players the uniform you wear is the Astros which means you're lucky you're even in the game and your stay is gonna be a short one no matter who's ass we're kissing.
Most important , none of this would be happening if Appel wasn't such a colossal failure so far. This is all becuz he has not lived up to all "top of the rotation , he's nearly MLB ready" bullshit. Time for Appel to pull up his skirt and hold up his end of the deal. This is not exactly how a kid wants to be viewed when he gets to the Show.

 

[Loneranger]

you're all dying for an update so let's get at it. Appel appears to be heading in the right direction. 4 starts in AA and his ERA is under 4 ! Opposing batters are hitting a mighty 110 points BELOW what the Class A hitters were. Who knows why and who cares. The Astros have been following this thread and were smart enough to take my sage advice and move this kid to AA and act like he's on his way. Appel is holding up his end of the deal and all is looking well for the 'stros and the kid. Good for both. Maybe a couple more good starts and Appel gets his 1st cup of coffee in Sept sometime. Stay tuned gentlemen , i'll be back.