Logic

[gkekoa]

1) Do you believe we are a SB contender?

2) Do you believe we have a solid foundation to build a winner?

3) If you are logical and unbiased, you will say no.

4) How do you build a winner? You build a foundation of players. You do not go out and pay big money for players who you cannot get rid of because of bad contracts when you actually improve. You sign players who help you get by until you can draft younger guys to take their place and develop drafted talent. Players from the draft are less expensive and often just as good (if not better) than veterans. Once you have a foundation built, then you can get a "super star" or two in FA to put you over the top.

All a "super star" on a bad team does is sell jerseys (at first). They don't improve the long term goals of a team.

 

[SkinsDalltheWay]

Thank you. I love the restraint being shown by the FO. We only have a few pieces but still need to develop our core.
Day 1 and 2 FAs always get paid a premium.

 

[Sleepy T]

I agree with your logic, but this franchise has done a poor job overall of finding and developing talent in the draft. Give it, a lot if that was under a different regime. But the jury is out on the linemen we drafted a couple years ago. If they are still not starting material by the beginning of next season or very very close to it, we need to resign ourselves that they are most likely depth players at best and move on. There are several other players you could say the same about. It shouldn't take 4-5 years to turn into a quality starter, I don't care where you are drafted at. Either you've got it, or you don't.

 

[skinz2winz]

1) Do you believe we are a SB contender?

2) Do you believe we have a solid foundation to build a winner?

3) If you are logical and unbiased, you will say no.

4) How do you build a winner? You build a foundation of players. You do not go out and pay big money for players who you cannot get rid of because of bad contracts when you actually improve. You sign players who help you get by until you can draft younger guys to take their place and develop drafted talent. Players from the draft are less expensive and often just as good (if not better) than veterans. Once you have a foundation built, then you can get a "super star" or two in FA to put you over the top.

All a "super star" on a bad team does is sell jerseys (at first). They don't improve the long term goals of a team.

I think people are starting to realize how awful this team currently is and currently in NO position to sign a few "key" or "super star" FA's. You build with young players to build your core and hopefully the scouting department can identify those players. It seems the same group we have in the scouting department have done a poor job finding such players and I don't have much confidence in them. It's really not that hard to "hit" on a first rounder like Williams, Orakpo or Kerrigan. It's the Morris' of the world you have to find and I don't think they found him, Shanahan did. We seem to draft players who are slow to develop or are out of the league in 3-5 years.

I'm looking forward to the Gruden regime and hopefully he can find some success early and not lose respect, faith or fortitude from not only the players but the fans.

 

[j_y19]

Exactly. These guys clamoring for the signing of aging stars like sproles cracks me up. So if sproles has a great year, maybe we get one more win. SO we go from a 6 win team to a 7 win team this year. Yet we take valuable reps away from Helu and Thompson so they can get better. They are the future of this team, not Sproles. Sproles will be long gone by the time we are in a position to contend. But we throw away a scarce draft pick and $3M for nothing substantial other than to say we signed a big name. Brilliant.

 

[SkinsDalltheWay]

What a refreshing non-Snyderatto logic

 

[j_y19]

I agree with your logic, but this franchise has done a poor job overall of finding and developing talent in the draft. Give it, a lot if that was under a different regime. But the jury is out on the linemen we drafted a couple years ago. If they are still not starting material by the beginning of next season or very very close to it, we need to resign ourselves that they are most likely depth players at best and move on. There are several other players you could say the same about. It shouldn't take 4-5 years to turn into a quality starter, I don't care where you are drafted at. Either you've got it, or you don't.

This is a concern of mine also. What is unknown is who was actually making talent decisions over the last 4 years, Shanahan or the scouting dept. This draft will be telling as we can't afford a miss with our first pick. I am becoming convinced that we may make a move away from that pick. We could go up to target a specific ILB or S or go down to pick the next ILB or S. The only reason we stay is if one of the stud WRs falls and we just can't pass him up. Again we have to get a stud with that pick that can step in and contribute immediately, no matter what position they play.

 

[skinz2winz]

Exactly. These guys clamoring for the signing of aging stars like sproles cracks me up. So if sproles has a great year, maybe we get one more win. SO we go from a 6 win team to a 7 win team this year. Yet we take valuable reps away from Helu and Thompson so they can get better. They are the future of this team, not Sproles. Sproles will be long gone by the time we are in a position to contend. But we throw away a scarce draft pick and $3M for nothing substantial other than to say we signed a big name. Brilliant.

Exactly. Possible 5th round pick that we sorely need might be a big hit (future core starter or ST player) that we gave away for 1 good year out of a 3rd down back. Stupid move imo. The starting foundation is players like Williams, RG3, Morris, Garcon, Orakpo, Kerrigan & Riley. Now build around them with 4-5 more young stud players then, and only then you can target 2-3 more "key" or "stud" players to add and be that contender you want to be.

 

[Lonewate44]

This is a concern of mine also. What is unknown is who was actually making talent decisions over the last 4 years, Shanahan or the scouting dept. This draft will be telling as we can't afford a miss with our first pick. I am becoming convinced that we may make a move away from that pick. We could go up to target a specific ILB or S or go down to pick the next ILB or S. The only reason we stay is if one of the stud WRs falls and we just can't pass him up. Again we have to get a stud with that pick that can step in and contribute immediately, no matter what position they play.

I certainly hope they dont go WR with their first pick...as you said...we need someone to contribute right away, and I have little confidence in a rookie receiver...WR is one of the biggest bust positions taken early in the draft...that is a Fact....Few...very few come in and contribute right away, and taken in the 2nd round...N Fn way........

 

[j_y19]

I certainly hope they dont go WR with their first pick...as you said...we need someone to contribute right away, and I have little confidence in a rookie receiver...WR is one of the biggest bust positions taken early in the draft...that is a Fact....Few...very few come in and contribute right away, and taken in the 2nd round...N Fn way........

That's why it would have to be one of the studs that drop. Its a total long shot and I don't see it happening.

 

[gkekoa]

You go with BPA because we need so many positions. You don't draft for a position and hope. Drafting the BPA give that player the best chance for success and success for this team. It's foolish to draft out of need alone.


One problem people are overlooking is the schematic changes affecting development.
You can't entirely blame the development of the defensive front seven or the OL with schematic changes because their particular talents may not be suited to the change. As everyone other than JUSTUSCEO can attest, a 4-3 DE is not a 3-4 DE.

 

[Skin'EmAll]

I still would have liked to have landed Byrd. He's young and proven. I can't argue with any of your numbers. They are logical. I do believe there are many, many above average players that are going to be cut before the draft. We have shown patience and will likely sign names the FO and Fans will like.

 

[Sportster 72]

I think two things happen when FA starts. People look for name recognition and they forget if you sign free agents who were on your team the previous year they don't look at them as free agents but that is exactly what they are.

Also a lot of people forget how we short on depth last year due to the cap penalty. We need to replace those players we couldn't sign last year. A big reason this team stunk on STs was because they couldn't afford the depth for good ST players. That is why Lorenzo left.

 

[Ritzarmy]

It seems every year we are missing more talent towards that foundation for a good team. We are constantly fighting against the bad drafts and past bad FA pickups. I understand why we aren't throwing all our money around on name brand top stars but I don't understand how bringing guys in to interview already on a suspension (Browner), guys who haven't played a full season in their career(Sharpton), guys who aren't starters but only backups can help us get to that good foundation. We have signed at least 3-5 players who are good/okay backups and ST players but aren't good starters. We need starters on this team on MANY positions and bringing in backups to play in a starting roll will get us similar results in the win column.

 

[gkekoa]

Tell that to Seattle. They were a bunch of guys that performed one of the best SB victories in history.

 

[skinz2winz]

Tell that to Seattle. They were a bunch of guys that performed one of the best SB victories in history.

They were a bunch of guys who could actually play and were well coached! It's called identifying and developing talent which we seem to be inept at.

 

[gkekoa]

They were a bunch of guys who could actually play and were well coached! It's called identifying and developing talent which we seem to be inept at.

Marshawn Lynch- cast off for a 4th and 5th rounder
Doug Baldwin- undrafted
Percy Harvin- trade
Jermaine Kearse- undrafted
JR Sweezy- seventh rounder
Breno Giacomini- undrafted
Chris Clemons- FA
Richard Sherman- fifth rounder
Kam Chancellor- fifth

These were just guys. They were brought together and competed...yes they were well coached but some of these guys were here before Carroll I believe. This is how you build a team...oh and the second youngest team in the NFL.
They don't waste money on 32 year old DEs in a futile attempt to win one more game...they get their young guys hungry.

OH...and they juice.