Let's get this whole time thing straight!

[Breed]

We can all say that it wasn't the plan because he didn't sit from the beginning......beyond that everything else that you've written supports my position!

The facts that Griffin was 19/28 or 67.8%, threw for 320 yards at 12.3 yards per att, had 2 TDs, no 0 INTs and a QB rating of 139.9 while the Skins hung 40 points on the Saints on opening day. As well as won 9 games in total that year and led the Skins to the NFC East title. And of the Skins 6 losses that year, only one, a 27-12 loss to the Steelers, was a double digit loss, the rest were 8 points or less. While legitimately winning Rookie of the Year. Kicks your "He wasn't ready to play." belief all up in its ass.

Its also the reason I mentioned Big Ben and Brady. While they didn't start from day one. Ben did start 13 games his rookie year and Brady started 14 games his 2nd year. And when they did become starters they weren't the complete QB that they would become. They grew into their roles while starting.

Its not when Griffin did or didn't start that's the linchpin of his failure though. The linchpin of Griffin's failure was A) Failing to protect himself and B) Thinking he had become bigger than the team and possibly bigger than the game itself or put another way. His ego and arrogance. That's where his failure came from and when you break it down. You can try and blame others for those failings, but the truth of the matter is this. They fall on Griffin and Griffin alone.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

@Breed

Do you remember all these stats and games from memory? Please tell me you have source help

Amazed at how well you always support your thoughts. Well done.

 

[Breed]

@Breed

Do you remember all these stats and games from memory? Please tell me you have source help

Amazed at how well you always support your thoughts. Well done.

I had to look up the 139.9 QB rating and when exactly Ben and Brady started, but everything else. Yeah, that's wedged somewhere up in my head in the useless facts and info dept.

There's things from 1972 that I can recall about the Skins w/o looking up. I dunno why it works like that.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

I had to look up the 139.9 QB rating r asand when exactly Ben and Brady started, but everything else. Yeah, that's wedged somewhere up in my head in the useless facts and info dept.

There's things from 1972 that I can recall about the Skins w/o looking up. I dunno why it works like that.

Seriously impressed. Well done sir.

Does that apply to the wifey's bday and important days too?

 

[Breed]

Seriously impressed. Well done sir.

Does that apply to the wifey's bday and important days too?

Never been married, homey, but yeah, I remember everyone's birthday, important days.

 

[Sportster 72]

Cali,

Your source to all things football, look up any player, game, year etc. you want. Pro Football Reference

Oct. 29, 1972 - Redskins beat the Giants 23-16
Kilmer was 8-16 114 yds 2 TD 1 INT
Larry Brown - 29 carries for 191 yards 1 TD -- 2 receptions for 42 yards and 1 TD

Opposing QB was Norm Snead former #1 draft choice of the Skins who traded him in 1964 to acquire Sonny

 

[Stymietee]

The facts that Griffin was 19/28 or 67.8%, threw for 320 yards at 12.3 yards per att, had 2 TDs, no 0 INTs and a QB rating of 139.9 while the Skins hung 40 points on the Saints on opening day. As well as won 9 games in total that year and led the Skins to the NFC East title. And of the Skins 6 losses that year, only one, a 27-12 loss to the Steelers, was a double digit loss, the rest were 8 points or less. While legitimately winning Rookie of the Year. Kicks your "He wasn't ready to play." belief all up in its ass.

Its also the reason I mentioned Big Ben and Brady. While they didn't start from day one. Ben did start 13 games his rookie year and Brady started 14 games his 2nd year. And when they did become starters they weren't the complete QB that they would become. They grew into their roles while starting.

Its not when Griffin did or didn't start that's the linchpin of his failure though. The linchpin of Griffin's failure was A) Failing to protect himself and B) Thinking he had become bigger than the team and possibly bigger than the game itself or put another way. His ego and arrogance. That's where his failure came from and when you break it down. You can try and blame others for those failings, but the truth of the matter is this. They fall on Griffin and Griffin alone.

Since this is a memory thing, I do recall that they started that season at 3-6 and their fortunes just like Griffin's were the result of some fancy offensive changes by the Shanahans like cutting the field in half for his QB. Griffin's problems came when he let it be known that he wanted to become a more conventional QB, maybe you forgot about that. This was something that he was totally unprepared to do, let's not rewrite history here. You have to put those stats in the context in which they were achieved, which by the way have no bearing on any conversation relating to what this organization should have done to maximize their return on investment, namely, converting a QB from one who's come from a spread offense into one who has the tools to run a conventional pro style offense.

Don't get me wrong here, Griffin does indeed share in his own failure, key word share, the only argument is between those who absolve the organization of any culpability, and those who don't. For me, at the moment that the Shanahans knew that he was ill suited for their program, he should have been benched. Guess what Griffin's shortcomings still are when it comes to QB'ing skills?

 

[Breed]

Since this is a memory thing, I do recall that they started that season at 3-6 and their fortunes just like Griffin's were the result of some fancy offensive changes by the Shanahans like cutting the field in half for his QB. Griffin's problems came when he let it be known that he wanted to become a more conventional QB, maybe you forgot about that. This was something that he was totally unprepared to do, let's not rewrite history here. You have to put those stats in the context in which they were achieved, which by the way have no bearing on any conversation relating to what this organization should have done to maximize their return on investment, namely, converting a QB from one who's come from a spread offense into one who has the tools to run a conventional pro style offense.

Don't get me wrong here, Griffin does indeed share in his own failure, key word share, the only argument is between those who absolve the organization of any culpability, and those who don't. For me, at the moment that the Shanahans knew that he was ill suited for their program, he should have been benched. Guess what Griffin's shortcomings still are when it comes to QB'ing skills?

First off. I was incorrect in what I wrote as I looked at the numbers they weren't adding up and it was buggin me out. Than I realized I wrote 28 incorrectly where it should've been 26 as in 19/26, not 19/28. So change the comp % from 67.8 to 73.0 and we're straight. Now to your post.

I'm not sure Griffin ever had a green-light to read the entire field. Be that as it may, The only games that year where it seemed the NFL might be too big for Griffin imo were the Steelers game and the game following that, a 21-13 loss to Carolina. Which incidentally was their last reg season loss that year.

Lets go strictly on your premise though. The Skins just fall to 3-6 and very likely at their collective low point of the season...........fair to say? So changes in how Griffin QBs are made and what happens? They run off 7 wins in a row, 6 by and/or including Griffin, including winning the NFC East in a last game of the season win or go home scenario with the Dallas Cowboys. Then they (the Skins) take the first two possessions in their playoff game against the Seahawks and Griffin marches them down the field throwing two TD passes and a 14-0 lead after said two possessions.

Explain to me that after being 3-6 and becoming the chief engineer of a 7 game winning streak. Winning the NFC East outright for the first time in 13 years and leading the Seahawks 14-0 till he injured himself on FedEx's shitty ass field. That Griffin was somehow not ready to do what he had had just done?

 

[ehb5]

Sure you can learn as a backup. But Im also saying that just because he was on the roster for 3 seasons, does not mean we should expect him not to have growing pains. He is having the same kinds of issues others in his situation have had. Look at Romo when he finally got the start. He was a turn over machine early on. And Im not pretending Kirk is the end all answer. But I am saying that most who are saying he is a lost cause are also those that are saying he who shall not be named should be starting. So yes, Kirk might not ever get there, but I think we have had a large enough sample size to know that the other option should not even be considered at this point.

I haven't said that once and I think I've made that clear. The problem is he's been way worse at the turnover thing than luck and Romo or well anybody ever.

 

[Stymietee]

First off. I was incorrect in what I wrote as I looked at the numbers they weren't adding up and it was buggin me out. Than I realized I wrote 28 incorrectly where it should've been 26 as in 19/26, not 19/28. So change the comp % from 67.8 to 73.0 and we're straight. Now to your post.

I'm not sure Griffin ever had a green-light to read the entire field. Be that as it may, The only games that year where it seemed the NFL might be too big for Griffin imo were the Steelers game and the game following that, a 21-13 loss to Carolina. Which incidentally was their last reg season loss that year.

Lets go strictly on your premise though. The Skins just fall to 3-6 and very likely at their collective low point of the season...........fair to say? So changes in how Griffin QBs are made and what happens? They run off 7 wins in a row, 6 by and/or including Griffin, including winning the NFC East in a last game of the season win or go home scenario with the Dallas Cowboys. Then they (the Skins) take the first two possessions in their playoff game against the Seahawks and Griffin marches them down the field throwing two TD passes and a 14-0 lead after said two possessions.

Explain to me that after being 3-6 and becoming the chief engineer of a 7 game winning streak. Winning the NFC East outright for the first time in 13 years and leading the Seahawks 14-0 till he injured himself on FedEx's shitty ass field. That Griffin was somehow not ready to do what he had had just done?

Extremely easy answer..........there are exactly zero, none, nada, zip number of teams running anything similar to that half field BS that the Shanahans came up with. That seven game winning streak was the absolute result of their dumbing down of the offense. Ironically, it was Mike himself that said that what was done in 2012 was not sustainable. Futher, do you remember what he said in response to Griffin's desire to become more conventional? I quote......"that's going to take some time, maybe a couple of years."

They all knew it then, just as I did from the beginning, and they should have. So let me ask you, what did they do about something that was publicly stated as going to take some time? Again putting things in context, when Griffin realized that the organizational approach was every man for himself, he followed suit. Not saying that, that was the right thing, because I completely disagree with his ego boosting, brand first jackass stance, but just like Deion, Stubblefield, Haynesworth et. al. Who was going to stop him?

 

[Breed]

Extremely easy answer..........there are exactly zero, none, nada, zip number of teams running anything similar to that half field BS that the Shanahans came up with. That seven game winning streak was the absolute result of their dumbing down of the offense. Ironically, it was Mike himself that said that what was done in 2012 was not sustainable. Futher, do you remember what he said in response to Griffin's desire to become more conventional? I quote......"that's going to take some time, maybe a couple of years."

They all knew it then, just as I did from the beginning, and they should have. So let me ask you, what did they do about something that was publicly stated as going to take some time? Again putting things in context, when Griffin realized that the organizational approach was every man for himself, he followed suit. Not saying that, that was the right thing, because I completely disagree with his ego boosting, brand first jackass stance, but just like Deion, Stubblefield, Haynesworth et. al. Who was going to stop him?

I believe the Steelers used a similar approach, only use a half side of the field/ or first read only, offense with Big Ben when he first began starting. It worked out OK for the Steelers and for Ben I'd say.

And I already answered that. Perhaps that was the plan along. Maybe the plan was to teach Griffin on the fly while he was still the Skins starter. It worked for Big Ben and it worked for Brady. There was a time when I believed it could've worked for Griffin. Unfortunately, he became or always was too arrogant of a prick to allow such a plan to work or even be implemented.

 

[Stymietee]

I believe the Steelers used a similar approach, only use a half side of the field/ or first read only, offense with Big Ben when he first began starting. It worked out OK for the Steelers and for Ben I'd say.

And I already answered that. Perhaps that was the plan along. Maybe the plan was to teach Griffin on the fly while he was still the Skins starter. It worked for Big Ben and it worked for Brady. There was a time when I believed it could've worked for Griffin. Unfortunately, he became or always was too arrogant of a prick to allow such a plan to work or even be implemented.

I believe that my point is that nobody employs that tactic today, nor as Mike Shanahan predicted, would it be sustainable. Turns out he was and is right.

Well, I knew that it wouldn't work,(teaching him on the fly) and they should have known as well. The difference between the three of them is only two had some basic introduction to quarterbacking 101.

 

[Breed]

I believe that my point is that nobody employs that tactic today, nor as Mike Shanahan predicted, would it be sustainable. Turns out he was and is right.

In 2015 and relying on it going on 4 years, perhaps not. Had Griffin not been such a freakin hard-head and protected himself by not diving head-first or trying to hurdle defenders. It might've worked for another season just fine. It couldn't have been much worse than the deer in headlights pocket passer persona he tried to perpetrate in 2013.

Well, I knew that it wouldn't work,(teaching him on the fly) and they should have known as well. The difference between the three of them is only two had some basic introduction to quarterbacking 101.

I'm not saying you are lying about believing it wouldn't work. I do in fact believe you. You weren't the only naysayer either, but I like many thought it could work. Unfortunately, it seems one of the things that's been revealed about Griffin in the last 3 years is. Despite that mega-watt smile of his and ready made pitchman persona that he possesses. He simply isn't all that smart. At least as it relates to smarts and being an NFL pocket passer.

 

[gkekoa]

Russell Wilson still employs the option and rushes for 800 yards...but he also knows how to protect himself.