Kings sign somone!

[Kings4OT]

Athanasiou, im guessing a put up and go get paid contract

 

[PuckinUgly57]

Dude is an enigma, has blazing speed and can score but damn does he have deficiencies in the defensive zone. This is a low risk high reward move, like pretty much everything Bowlby has done since he got here, but also buys some time for the young talent to develop properly and not rush them into game situations.

No need at this point considering LA won't be contending for another 3 years minimum in my estimation. Lot of decent prospects at the forward positions, but the defense is bare. Need to start drafting there and hope a few blossom into NHL players when they are ready to compete.

 

[LAKINGSFAN]

Dude is an enigma, has blazing speed and can score but damn does he have deficiencies in the defensive zone. This is a low risk high reward move, like pretty much everything Bowlby has done since he got here, but also buys some time for the young talent to develop properly and not rush them into game situations.

No need at this point considering LA won't be contending for another 3 years minimum in my estimation. Lot of decent prospects at the forward positions, but the defense is bare. Need to start drafting there and hope a few blossom into NHL players when they are ready to compete.

welcome back Puck. Been a while.

 

[PuckinUgly57]

welcome back Puck. Been a while.

Thanks buddy. Never left, been reading but not posting much. Been a crazy year or so at the Puck household but definitely will be contributing again. Pretty excited to see the progress the prospects have made but also have tempered expectations of this team.

And no one has suggested a 2020-21 bitchboy yet. I miss the days of Gonzo, Zeiler, J-Blow, Johnson, Ponikarovsky, etc. Someone needs to step up for me to scream at nightly.

=)~~

 

[xis]

Good to see you posting, liver lips.

Here's your bitch boy. Michael Amadio

 

[PuckinUgly57]

Good to see you posting, liver lips.

Here's your bitch boy. Michael Amadio

Good to see you too Kevin Shat on my Kirk.

Eh...not sure Amadio fits the mold. I have a few criterion for who qualifies for the BBOY Award but it can be broadly defined by these traits or some combination of them:
- someone who is overrated, gets lots of love from the organization and fans that is baffling (J-Blow, Nick Shore in recent years)
- has some talent but pretty much shits the bed on a nightly basis (Muzzin)
- his play makes you wonder how this guy still has a spot on the team when enough evidence exists he shouldn't be over a period of time (Jack Johnson. With Johnson I wonder how he is still even in the league - he has made a killing financially even after the whole parents BK'd him deal - but really has just been a terrible player his entire NHL career)

Rookies or developing players (< 2-3 years NHL experience) generally get a pass unless clearly show they suck ass beyond just the learning curve (Loktionov, Bednar back in the day). Age plays a role in this one, I expect a 25 year old who is just starting out in the NHL to ramp up much more quickly than a 20 year old getting his first taste of the NHL. This one is subjective but I'm well versed enough in the game to point out a guy clearly isn't going to be as good as expected, done it a gazillion times over the years with you tools. I haven't missed on many of them either so I trust my judgement on this one.

Amadio doesn't really fit into any of those categories but I can see why people would be on his case - I think he has a lot more to show and give than he has so far but unfortunately he is out of chances. He will blossom into a M6/B6 every night player somewhere else, he doesn't fit into the long term scheme of things here anymore although 2-3 years ago he was considered for that. Smart player, has some skill but can't seem to put it together for any extended period of time. Eventually younger talent replaces their name on the depth chart and he has reached that point with a glut of centers coming up the pipeline, I think the Kings will trade him and it'll be a 4th or a 5th; anything more than that is gravy.

Looking at the current roster, Wagner is looking like a solid pick to kick off 2020-21.

 

[LAKINGSFAN]

Thanks buddy. Never left, been reading but not posting much. Been a crazy year or so at the Puck household but definitely will be contributing again. Pretty excited to see the progress the prospects have made but also have tempered expectations of this team.

And no one has suggested a 2020-21 bitchboy yet. I miss the days of Gonzo, Zeiler, J-Blow, Johnson, Ponikarovsky, etc. Someone needs to step up for me to scream at nightly.

=)~

Hope nobody in your household or anyone on this forum has had to deal with Covid.

May I suggest Doughty as you BB? Although I do appreciate his intensity, I dont like the complaining bad penalties and poor excuse for end to end rush that he will eventually loose the puck. But, thats just me.

 

[Kings4OT]

While Doughboy is a decent pick at this point, he is autoexempt as his 11m already kills the franchise.

Wagner is definitely a good pick, he just might be hands of stone incarnate

Frk, i just want this guy to get some fucking play time...seems productive everywhere but never gets much of a look

Kempe, he is my pick. He might be only what he is, i expected more

But you already made your pick with euthanasia....perfect, i already hate this guy.....if you cant get points playing with mcjesus your doing something wrong

 

[PuckinUgly57]

Hope nobody in your household or anyone on this forum has had to deal with Covid.

May I suggest Doughty as you BB? Although I do appreciate his intensity, I dont like the complaining bad penalties and poor excuse for end to end rush that he will eventually loose the puck. But, thats just me.

We have not been affected, but I know people who have been but not many. Hope no one on the board has been affected either. While I do believe this has been overblown for a multitude of reasons (and coming from a family of doctors I have proof and first hand knowledge; don't believe everything the media tells you) it is a real virus and can kill certain people.

My mom got it 3-4 weeks ago but is doing well and recovered just fine. I was a little surprised considering she will be 71 next month, had triple bypass in Jan 2018, has diabetes and is on medication and pretty much just runs herself ragged even at her age.

There is no questioning where I got my drive, competitiveness and fiery personality from, it's definitely her (Loco has met her - she's a small person but will kick the holy hell out of you if necessary) but I also believe that is what has kept her (and myself) pretty young overall. She isn't sedentary at all but my 50 year old sister is lazy and seems to struggle with ailments and what not more than either of us. Like they say, a rolling stone grows no moss and I fully believe it. I'll be 46 next month (unreal - some of you clowns have kids now who are near my age when we all started posting together in the late 1990s, early to mid 20s) and lucky to be alive and well considering the amount of crap I put my body through all these years between the stress, alcohol, sports, dangerous decisions and what not.

Been sober for almost 7 months now and feeling a lot better these days. A lot of things have improved like relationships overall, my health, sleeping patterns, diet, more gym time, I enrolled back in school in Jan 2020 and will be wrapping up a second degree in Construction Management (leaving the business world after almost 25 years- time for a change) and walking in May, been riding my Harley a lot with a buddy I've known for 30 some years.

A big aha moment was last spring when I was so tanked I almost fell over in the garage sitting on it, I have a 2020 Road Glide and it is an unbelievably heavy bike. That was kind of the start of my decision to stop drinking. When I detoxed in June I experienced DTs and honestly should have died on my bedroom floor. I was on a 12 day straight bender, didn't sleep for 4 days straight at one point, didn't eat for a week, my breathalyzer registered a .347, couldn't drag myself up the stairs, hallucinated, started hearing things, had an imaginary fight in my room with someone, imagned I was getting robbed. I barely remember that 2 week period, just get flashes here and there still. Wasn't meant to be so I'll gladly take that gift and run with it. Message received but damn was that a trip and a half.

Kids are growing up (Baby Puck is now almost a Junior in HS, got two 10 year olds in GATE and Pucky Jr II turned 8 on NYE). Got in a new relationship in early fall, she is 38 and has 2 kids, a math professor at Cypress College and overall a nice girl. Started dating her in Jan of last year, introduced the kids to each other in November. Renovated my entire house pretty much in all of 2020 including lots of new wood work, appliances, cabinets, major improvements all done by yours truly. I'm leaving CA in 9 years so I am prepping the house to rent out and will start visiting potential places to live out my life starting in April (Montana is first on the list mid April). The goal is to buy land and build my own place on it. Grew my beard out and embraced the salt and pepper terrorist look finally. I approve because it keeps people away from my salty ass.

So that's been my last 12 months pretty much in a nutshell. Not much going on.

=)~~

I see the nomination of Doughty but I feel his contract has really propelled him into that category. That's what the going rate was however, not much you can about that. This guy is a generational player and has delivered.

He isn't a yes man like Bourque was per se, he's not even keeled, soft spoken, none of that. I could certainly do without the bitching too. But fiery guys tend to let emotions dictate how they react and that shows in his play. When he is excited and "happy", it shows - he dominates. When he isn't, it also shows. Plus he has had a parade of defense partners since Muzzin left, and they aren't exact T4 material overall. Thus he tends to do too much because he is competitive and fiery and wants to win and instead ends up making it worse. But I don't think he is washed up at all.

With the team not winning his level of play has dipped for sure, but I think once the Kings get competitive again we will see a return of Doughty of old. Maybe not Norris level Doughty but definitely elite status.

 

[PuckinUgly57]

While Doughboy is a decent pick at this point, he is autoexempt as his 11m already kills the franchise.

Wagner is definitely a good pick, he just might be hands of stone incarnate

Frk, i just want this guy to get some fucking play time...seems productive everywhere but never gets much of a look

Kempe, he is my pick. He might be only what he is, i expected more

But you already made your pick with euthanasia....perfect, i already hate this guy.....if you cant get points playing with mcjesus your doing something wrong

Doughboy, that one is still gold.

I think I'll stick with Wagner and see how he does. I think he could be taken in the ED coming up for Seattle but that all depends how he plays. Dude is a higher skilled version of Nick Shore, couldn't put a beach ball into the ocean. He had so many breakaways last season and just couldn't bury them.

HOS incarnate - I watched the World Juniors tonight and saw his son, Ryan Johnson. Born and raised in OC, and York was born in Anaheim Hills across the freeway from me who was the US captain. Nice to see some CA kids making the big stage and glad the US won Gold. Zegras may be a Duck prospect but he was my hero, he trolled Canada hard and backed it up out there. He made a whole country cry tonight.

With Johnson, I didn't notice him much overall but on one play he came flying down the wing, crossed the blue line, defender was closing the gap and he launched a wrist shot towards the net with the same off foot Messier kick HOS used to do here in LA. Puck missed the net, hit the glass, rung around, Canadian player got and skated it out of the zone easily. Only difference was a) Jr was on the left wing and Senior would do that on the right wing and b) Jr didn't get plastered into the boards like his dad used to. Took me right back to pretty much his dad's entire tenure in LA.

But the apple doesn't fall far from the tree apparently, like father like son.

=)~~

Frk is interesting to me too. Dude has a cannon for a shot, I don't understand why he isn't tried out in more situations. He isn't T6, but he has a skill set that really stands out over some other players. He reminds me of a poor man's Kovalchuk when he was younger.

Euthanasia isn't my pick, I'm actually very curious to see how he does but two stops last year and like you said, not producing with The Lord as his centerman is certainly eye raising. I know he was injured some but can't remember the full details but if McJesus can make Zack Kassian look good having this guy on his wing should have been a slam dunk. And speaking of Kassian, I am going to watch Flames Oilers matchups intently, Tkachuk needs to have his teeth punched in more frequently. Seeing Kassian ragdoll him last year was awesome.

Kempe is also a solid pick as well, been a bit of a disappointment for a 1st round pick even though he may as well have been a 2nd round pick. I think the issues began hindering his development when the Kings moved him to C in only his second season instead of letting him play his natural LW position.

The idea was using his speed to drive defenses back, but apart from that he is not a good center at all and shouldn't be played as one. The problem was Carter's play dipping and no viable 2C in sight. But he too is a good candidate as well.

 

[Kings4OT]

Ive said it for quite awhile....until a team wins with a 10m contract quit signing them. Its got to happen eventually tho right? But i think its been 10+ years ive been against them.

Doughboy is still very good and the kings might end up ok with the 2 big contracts if these young guys pan out....but you need to win while those young stars are on the way up not after they get huge paydays and you cant get a team around them

I still wish kings drafted stutzle, i think he might end up being the best player in the draft and would have been fun to watch. I understand the social pressure and byfield is a big body and i hope im wrong about where the 2 careers end up

 

[Kings4OT]

Fucking tkchoke, got to give him props for not being demolished every game as he should be.

 

[PuckinUgly57]

Ive said it for quite awhile....until a team wins with a 10m contract quit signing them. Its got to happen eventually tho right? But i think its been 10+ years ive been against them.

Doughboy is still very good and the kings might end up ok with the 2 big contracts if these young guys pan out....but you need to win while those young stars are on the way up not after they get huge paydays and you cant get a team around them

I still wish kings drafted stutzle, i think he might end up being the best player in the draft and would have been fun to watch. I understand the social pressure and byfield is a big body and i hope im wrong about where the 2 careers end up

It's all percentage of cap so I think eventually that was going to happen anyway. The first cap in 2005-06 was a whopping $39 million, now it's at $81.5 million so more than doubled. You have to expect the prior UFA/RFA class sets the minimum for the next group of players so it will always rise since it's perpetual. Someone will win with a $10+ million contract some day, the closest since signing one of those deals is Ovechkin, he was makin $9.538 million under the deal he signed in 2008.

Just look at Blake, he was making $5.3 million on his last LA contract (1998-01) but the year before he is UFA Pronger jumps from $5.175 million (Blake;'s 1998 contract was the comp for his contract) to $9.5 million so now you have Blake's baseline even though you were dealing with an RFA vs a UFA because their accomplishments were similar at the time. It's just what happens, so I don't think Doughty getting $11 million was out of whack, he commanded the market because he was considered elite, won a Norris and 2 Stanley Cups. Karlsson getting what he did was a massive overpay, but that's on SJ. I still don't consider those two in the same class no matter what people say, Karlsson is a glorified forward. SJ is screwed for years to come between him, Vlasic and Burns' contracts and age.

Going back to 2005-06, Doughty's $11 million now is $13.5% of the cap so back then that would have been a $5.3 million player which was guys like St. Louis, Apetuzzi and Nash. Star power for sure. Now that was with the 24% rollback, but really for the money at the time it's not eye popping. What is now though, is guys like Tavares, Matthews and Marner - all $10.9+ million players - making that much when they haven't won anything.

Good point on winning with the young guys while the vets are making the bucks, those guys will be due contracts as well and people will need to go. If you do a good job drafting and crafting, you get a nice blend of younger talented guys on affordable contracts with high priced vets. That's exactly what the 2012 and 2014 Kings teams were, but the 5 highest paid guys in 2012 (Doughty, Kopitar, Quick Brown and Carter) made a combined $24.05 millon in 2012 and $28.05 million in 2014. That $4 million difference is a solid addition right there as a player they no longer can get without losing something else so a younger guy needs to step up for sure who is on a cheaper contract.

I'm not sure I understand the social pressure thing - because he's black and it's LA? I don't buy that stuff at all. The Kings are a very established team, they don't need to cater to any specific race to make them happy or attract fans. If that was the case they would take the first guy available who was a specific race no matter how talented (or not) he is to appease people. They don't do that, they do what is best for the franchise.

I never understood that, kind of like how Teh Gay was rubbing one out thinking Fukifuji is all of a sudden going to spike an influx of Japanese fans into Staples over a decade ago. Same argument was made for Anson Carter when he was here in LA for a minute in 2003, and Alec Martinez didn't bring hoards of Latinos into Staples either. I think people read into that stuff a bit too much; Byfield is a solid player, a solid prospect, the BPA and a fills a major cog on a contending team (a franchise center) who just happens to be black. His color had nothing to do with him coming to LA; the Kings are known to be a very socially aware franchise as is.

Stutzle is definitely the more skilled, and probably NHL ready, but franchise centers don't come around too often. If you draft and develop one you have cost control for pretty much for the next decade with that player. I think the Kings made the right move because they don't have one in the system and Kopitar is getting up there but would have been happy with either player.

 

[PuckinUgly57]

Fucking tkchoke, got to give him props for not being demolished every game as he should be.

Well he doesn't answer the bell for his style of a play a lot, or if he tries to he goes after the wrong dudes (like picking a fight with Muzzin when he elbowed Doughty. Really? Broke the Code son, you don't get to choose your opponent, they choose you. Too bad MacDermid wasn't around). Bitch move, which was one of my biggest beefs with Brown for so many years but he isn't hitting much anyway these days so it doesn't really matter anymore.

But seeing Kassian just say enough after getting run 3 times in the same game by him was gold. I never get tired of watching this:

Never been a super fan of Kassian but he was my hero after this.

 

[LAKINGSFAN]

It's all percentage of cap so I think eventually that was going to happen anyway. The first cap in 2005-06 was a whopping $39 million, now it's at $81.5 million so more than doubled. You have to expect the prior UFA/RFA class sets the minimum for the next group of players so it will always rise since it's perpetual. Someone will win with a $10+ million contract some day, the closest since signing one of those deals is Ovechkin, he was makin $9.538 million under the deal he signed in 2008.

Just look at Blake, he was making $5.3 million on his last LA contract (1998-01) but the year before he is UFA Pronger jumps from $5.175 million (Blake;'s 1998 contract was the comp for his contract) to $9.5 million so now you have Blake's baseline even though you were dealing with an RFA vs a UFA because their accomplishments were similar at the time. It's just what happens, so I don't think Doughty getting $11 million was out of whack, he commanded the market because he was considered elite, won a Norris and 2 Stanley Cups. Karlsson getting what he did was a massive overpay, but that's on SJ. I still don't consider those two in the same class no matter what people say, Karlsson is a glorified forward. SJ is screwed for years to come between him, Vlasic and Burns' contracts and age.

Going back to 2005-06, Doughty's $11 million now is $13.5% of the cap so back then that would have been a $5.3 million player which was guys like St. Louis, Apetuzzi and Nash. Star power for sure. Now that was with the 24% rollback, but really for the money at the time it's not eye popping. What is now though, is guys like Tavares, Matthews and Marner - all $10.9+ million players - making that much when they haven't won anything.

Good point on winning with the young guys while the vets are making the bucks, those guys will be due contracts as well and people will need to go. If you do a good job drafting and crafting, you get a nice blend of younger talented guys on affordable contracts with high priced vets. That's exactly what the 2012 and 2014 Kings teams were, but the 5 highest paid guys in 2012 (Doughty, Kopitar, Quick Brown and Carter) made a combined $24.05 millon in 2012 and $28.05 million in 2014. That $4 million difference is a solid addition right there as a player they no longer can get without losing something else so a younger guy needs to step up for sure who is on a cheaper contract.

I'm not sure I understand the social pressure thing - because he's black and it's LA? I don't buy that stuff at all. The Kings are a very established team, they don't need to cater to any specific race to make them happy or attract fans. If that was the case they would take the first guy available who was a specific race no matter how talented (or not) he is to appease people. They don't do that, they do what is best for the franchise.

I never understood that, kind of like how Teh Gay was rubbing one out thinking Fukifuji is all of a sudden going to spike an influx of Japanese fans into Staples over a decade ago. Same argument was made for Anson Carter when he was here in LA for a minute in 2003, and Alec Martinez didn't bring hoards of Latinos into Staples either. I think people read into that stuff a bit too much; Byfield is a solid player, a solid prospect, the BPA and a fills a major cog on a contending team (a franchise center) who just happens to be black. His color had nothing to do with him coming to LA; the Kings are known to be a very socially aware franchise as is.

Stutzle is definitely the more skilled, and probably NHL ready, but franchise centers don't come around too often. If you draft and develop one you have cost control for pretty much for the next decade with that player. I think the Kings made the right move because they don't have one in the system and Kopitar is getting up there but would have been happy with either player.

Someone like Doughty who wants to win so bad and be competitive demands a $11m. Why not take a bit less so there is room to sign other players? I am not just picking on Doughty but even Kopitar. If they take a little less, then there is money left over for others to fill the roster. I wonder if that ever comes up in negotiations.

 

[Kings4OT]

While im with you for the most part on Brown, most of his hit were legal and he shouldnt have to fight everytime he gave a big hit....but yes he did need to on occasion and did not.

I also love that kassian/tkchoke clip. While i do like some instigators and understand getting under the skin of teams, he is just a clown trying to hurt other players and i see him going the way of avery.

I do think you have to take carter off consideration, he just hasnt been the same since returning from injury and thats not going to change much. A good part of his game was that sneaky breakaway speed that he might have lost

 

[PuckinUgly57]

Someone like Doughty who wants to win so bad and be competitive demands a $11m. Why not take a bit less so there is room to sign other players? I am not just picking on Doughty but even Kopitar. If they take a little less, then there is money left over for others to fill the roster. I wonder if that ever comes up in negotiations.

I'm sure it does, and some players do (look at Kevin Labanc for SJ, 2018-19 17/39/56 -1, 2019-20 14/19/33 -33. Took a $1 million deal off a $925,000 RFA contract after 56 points and had a very subpar year after. SJ gave him a 4 years/$18.9 million/$4.725 million AAV deal, which isn't chump change, but had he taken a higher deal in 2019 he is making a lot more than that. 55-60 point guys make between $5-6 million generally if not more depending on free agency status) but an elite player is not going to do that.

On the flip side of the $11 million, the Kings gave him an 8 year/$56 million deal in 2011 and he won 2 Cups, won a Norris (and was a nominee a few other times as well) and 5 ASG appearances. They got a ton of value from that annual $7 million AAV. The same could be said for Kopitar too who won 2 Cups, a Selke, a Lady Byng and 3 ASG appearances under that 7 years/$47.6 million/$6.8 million AAV
and already a Selke and a Hart nomination under the new more expensive deal. The Kings got exceptional value out of those guys who were underpaid for what they delivered.

I'm on board with you that these contracts are ridiculous, especially the $10+ million ones, but unfortunately that is the business of hockey.

 

[Kings4OT]

Guys like stamkos are few and far between....but really if you want to stay competitive your whole career, you end up with solid teams more often than not

 

[Kings4OT]

Definitely not saying kopistar and Doughboy arent "worth" the contracts vs anyone else....just that until a team wins with a 10m+ guy......nobody has.

 

[PuckinUgly57]

While im with you for the most part on Brown, most of his hit were legal and he shouldnt have to fight everytime he gave a big hit....but yes he did need to on occasion and did not.

I also love that kassian/tkchoke clip. While i do like some instigators and understand getting under the skin of teams, he is just a clown trying to hurt other players and i see him going the way of avery.

I do think you have to take carter off consideration, he just hasnt been the same since returning from injury and thats not going to change much. A good part of his game was that sneaky breakaway speed that he might have lost

I agree most of Brown's hits were legal, But that style of play will rub people the wrong way and right or not, they are coming after you for it. I also agree while he wasn't obligated or required to drop the gloves, he wasn't obligated to turtle either 99% of the time but that is what he did. It was always someone else cleaning up his mess out of honor that he was the captain IMO.

I think had he stood up for himself more, teams would not have gone after him as much because they wouldn't know whether he was going to throw down or not. But he pretty much let the whole hockey world know I'm going to hit you and if you come after me I am not going to fight you. Played a ton in my day, and right or not, that is extremely frustrating over time not being able to get to a guy who does that.

I don't see Avery and Tkachuk on the same level in terms of intent to injure. Clown factor? Absolutely. But Avery was an honest player, he hit you, he hit you hard and if you had a problem with it he will drop the gloves. Avery's antics and comments are what made him a clown, not his style of play. Tkachuk is a decent player too, but he looks like he is deliberately headhunting and won't answer for it. I don't respect guys like that at all so props to Kassian for belting him.

The clip above is the third hit in that same game where Tkachuk blindsided Kassian so it was building up. If you look at the other clips, the two others are very suspect, one especially suspect as a dirty hit, and no calls on any of them (ironically this third hit was clean IMO but it was too late at that point, Tkachuk already woke up the bear). The refs blew that game and Kassian took it into his hands. Old school self policing, love it. Not going to call it? OK, I'm just going to pummel the guy and take my PIMs.

Carter was never on my list, while he isn't elite anymore he doesn't do much to frustrate me either. He certainly has not been the same since the tendon injury, and now he had the hip surgery too but I'm hoping he pulls a Selanne from 2004-05 where the lost season and extended time off allowed an older veteran to rehab. Teabag looked like a kid again when he came back out of the lockout, I'm hoping Carter does the same for LA.

Carter's injury also forced Kempe to move to 2C, which I think really hindered his development as well. Not only was he not ready for that role he is not meant to be a center either and it showed. That 2014 draft wasn't really good anyway for LA, some good players were off the board already when LA picked 29th (Pasternak, Schmaltz, Larkin for example) so it was slim pickings. The next decent player is Christian Dvorak and he was taken almost 30 picks later at 58th by the Dogs. almost a 3rd round pick. Just not a good draft overall.

But for the amount of talent Kempe has, I expected more for sure. I remember his first goal agianst the Capitals, it was pretty amazing. This is his 5th NHL season so it's time to determine whether he will be a big piece, small piece or no piece of the future.