John Heyman Of CBS Sports.com

[Burgh Sports Rule]

I picked this up from Inside Pittsburgh Sports.com

Reps from the website spoke to Jon Heyman of CBS Sports.com.

Heymen, told Inside Pittsburgh Sports.com, that Mark Appel is leaning against signing with the Pirates for 3.8M & considering returning to Stanford for his senior season.

I think that this is a Huge risk by this kid.

Thoughts... everyone,

Burgh

 

[Burgh Sports Rule]

Also, I spelled Jon Heyman's name incorrectly in the Subject Line of my thread.

I know how to edit the body of a post on this site. Could someone please tell me how you go about doing an edit on the subject line of a message?

Can't seem to do that, short of deleting the thread & starting again.

Thanks guys,

Burgh

 

[Darkstone42]

I got it for you.

 

[sychmd]

try your best,
if we sign him great, altho he might be someone with an attitdue.

if we dont, we get a high draft choice who can sign quicker and get rolling into the minors and rise up from a deeper class.

who cares what happens to him afterward, dont waste your time on it. no sense wishing ill on boras or the kid. it is what it is.

save the money and invest it elsewhere in a free agent this winter or getting a rental at teh deadline if we need one after we pull off the big trade.

 

[element1286]

Doesn't seem like a good idea, he isn't going to have leverage next year, and unless he is far from a lock to be picked in the top 3, which is the only way this makes sense.

 

[thedddd]

Not sure why he wouldn't sign either.

 

[Illinest]

It's the death rattle of Scott Boras. He wants the fans to get upset and threaten to storm the castle. I'm not sure if I have all the details exactly right but I think that what's happening is basically what I'm about to describe.

Appel is sad about the money he lost but he's not a retard. It's almost never a good idea to assume that people are too stupid to see what's good for them btw. He's not. I think it's actually a more credible idea that he's willing to lose money in order to get drafted by another organization. In that case he goes back to college and signs whatever the next team offers him. There's risk in that but who can say if he hates pittsburgh that much? I can tell you that if I was drafted by the St. Louis Cardinals or the Milwaukee Brewers I'd go out of my way to squeeze every penny I could get out of those asshats.
Anyways - sorry for getting sidetracked. Here's the meat of it.

There's a limit to how high the Pirates can go without sacrificing a draft pick and according to a few sources it's about 3.8 million to Appel assuming they don't sign anyone else, but unless I'm mistaken there's a different lower limit that will cost them a pick in the new supplementary lottery round if they go over and I think that's 3.4 million or so. The Pirates goal is to sign Appel at less than 3.4 million so that they don't have to surrender that lottery pick. Boras' goal is to squeeze every last penny out. So Boras is talking about how 3.8 million might not be enough because he wants to bring the Pirates up to that figure. He probably thinks his client might take 3.4 and he knows the Pirates have an incentive to cap their offer at 3.4 but he also knows that the penalty for exceeding 3.4 isn't anywhere near as bad as the penalty for exceeding 3.8. If he forces the Pirates to give up that supplemental pick and an extra half million then he can claim a sort of victory out of the process.


But I could be wrong about the supplemental pick penalty I admit, and if I'm wrong about that then the whole argument falls apart. I don't remember where I heard it and that's my problem right now.

Now Boras knows

 

[steelparrot]

You were right:

**Keith Law confirms what Callis reports, and also reports that the Pirates won’t give up a shot at a lottery pick. Teams who go over their bonus pools lose the chance to get additional picks. The Pirates could spend up to $3.8 M on Appel without losing a future pick, but they can only spend up to $3.5 M and still remain under their total bonus pool. Law also says that the draft next year looks weaker, although Baseball America and Baseball Prospectus have both said it looks stronger.


Pirates Prospects Mark Appel Updates: Monday


To tell you the truth, I dont care if he signs or not, offer him 3 mill and say take it or leave it.

 

[thecrow124]

Honestly, I can say this for certain, Mark Appel is a better prospect than anyone we would get with an additional pick. If we can offer $3.8 million without losing our first round pick, then that is probably what he will sign for. I would not give up our first round pick, but a supplemental pick that we may not even get anyway, I see no point in trying to hold on to that. I would guess that is what the whole stalemate is about.
But like NH said on the day of the draft, worst case we get the #9 pick next year.

 

[Illinest]

Its not an insult if you offer him 3.4. Its what you have available. Any higher than that and you start giving up potential assets. That supplemental pick we give up could be the SS that saves Appels no-hitter. It is neither sides best interests to cost the pirates high draft picks.

I say we offer 3.4 or whatever and tell him its his, but that if he doesnt take it by 4 then theres some late round overslots that they need to give it to instead. I will not be upset at all if we cant make this work for appel. Its essentially a hard slotting system now. Players can leave it if they want but as long as the pirates pick the best available talent then there no cause to complain.

 

[sychmd]

use the money elsewhere if he doesnt sign for 3.4.

in the future, i would think of offering 100% slot to sign in 5 days and the offer decreases by 10% every 5 days to incent them to sign and start playing.

if appel doestn sign, spend it on a rental for the stretch or have it for a fatter pot for a situational free agent, or reward someone headed for arbitration that excelled this year.

3.4 can help out other areas.

 

[pixburgher66]

He'd be a fantastic addition to our prospects, but it's not worth surrendering a 1st rounder. Just not. I agree with most though: he's putting himself in a very tumultuous situation. He gets hurt or has a terrible season, he's out of all money. That said, it was mentioned that his father was some big shot lawyer somewhere, so he's not necessarily worried about that long term, soooo...not sure how that applies to him fighting over a few hundred K.

 

[pixburgher66]

And I say 100K like it's some minuscule amount, haha

 

[Etrius24]

Well

The pick next year is the 8th overall pick is it not? I mean if they cannot ink this kid and get a compensation pick next year.... So it is not like the Bucs will not have a chance to get someone really great.

I think the bucs were lucky that Appel fell to them this year ...But that was my initial response... maybe other teams knew just how tough it would be to ink this kid with Boras as his agent...So they passed.

I have stated this before and I believe it... that if a player refuses to sign and goes to college... when he gets out the team that drafted him before should have first crack at him... and if he leaves college to get drafted and does not sign...He should not be able to enter the draft only 1 year later...The team drafting him should hold his rights for 2 years... This would discourage the JD drew type of situations..Boras is a master at getting what he wants... But he would not have as strong a hand to bluff if not signing meant his players sitting in limbo for 2 years instead of just one.

 

[Darkstone42]

Tim Williams of Pirates Prospects said this on Monday concerning Upton and Quentin:

**Jon Heyman of CBS Sports reports that the Pirates, Reds, Indians and others have expressed interest in Carlos Quentin of the San Diego Padres. We’ve heard the Pirates connected to Quentin before. Heyman mentions that the Padres would have to get a return that would be better than a compensation pick, although I don’t think Quentin would be a candidate for a pick. In order to get a pick, Quentin would have to turn down a qualifying offer, which would give him about a $5 M raise over his salary this year.

**Rob Biertempfel reports that the Diamondbacks have been scouting Indianapolis for a wish list for Justin Upton, while the Padres have been scouting West Virginia for Quentin. He also says that both teams have shown interest in Brad Lincoln.

And yesterday this on Upton:

**Yesterday, Piecoro said that the Pittsburgh Pirates were interested in Upton, but that they don’t match up well with the Diamondbacks.

**Piecoro also said in that article that the Diamondbacks still valued Upton as a star, and wouldn’t move him for 75 cents on the dollar.

**Today, Piecoro looks at the reasoning behind trading Upton, noting that the motives are still unclear. He also says that the Diamondbacks would be more likely to deal for major leaguers.

That last part adds to the mystery surrounding the Upton talks. People view Upton as a piece that can help now, and in the future. He’s played like a star in the past, although he’s currently in a down year. If Arizona is focused on winning now, then why would they deal a player of his perceived value? It would make sense if they’re looking to load up on high upside prospects. But if they’re looking for major league players, that wouldn’t make much sense. They’d be better off sticking with Upton, unless there’s a reason to move on from Upton.

This also explains why the Pirates don’t match up well with Arizona. The most valuable pieces the Pirates have for a trade would be Pedro Alvarez or James McDonald. Trading either player would end up being a wash. Whatever value Upton would bring to the table, they’d lose by creating a hole on the 25-man roster. Brad Lincoln might have some value, and we’ve heard Arizona is interested in him, but you’re still going to need other players to swing a deal, and the Pirates don’t really have enough value in the majors to get a guy like Upton, without losing an equal amount of value from their current team.