JJM wants a lively board so here it goes...

[huskers1217]

 

[Jack_John_Mark]

Wise beyond his years that JJM

Your rep power has also increased

 

[Big Red Said]

But you don't understand!!!!! The bible says so!!!!! Don't you get it????

Everyone's life should be run by a book that some dude thousands of years ago made up. Why is so hard to comprehend about that?

LOL... yep, since we have removed all aspects of God or the word God from our educational institutions, state agencies and everywhere else... I can see how much better off our society has developed.

Not that this little book has any influence on society... but if you can't see the parallel on how things are today vs. 30 years ago (values, morals, ethics) then you are blind or just don't give a shit!

Either way; I don't give a hoot, as I am not here to convert anyone!

If you or anyone else wants’ to :bj: or :hdn: More power to ya!

 

[jedburks]

LOL... yep, since we have removed all aspects of God or the word God from our educational institutions, state agencies and everywhere else... I can see how much better off our society has developed.

Not that this little book has any influence on society... but if you can't see the parallel on how things are today vs. 30 years ago (values, morals, ethics) then you are blind or just don't give a shit!

Either way; I don't give a hoot, as I am not here to convert anyone!

If you or anyone else wants’ to :bj: or :hdn: More power to ya!

Hahaha, if anything society has gotten better. There is a big part of that little book of fiction that wants people to love their fellow man and neighbor. Basically, live and let live and don't discriminate. How much discrimination was there 30 years ago? We have come along way for the better!!!!!

As I have heard someone else say before, if the church wants to be so involved in government then we should start taxing churches. Could make a lot of money!!!!

We live in a very diverse society and that is a bad thing? Land of the free and home of the brave. We are free to have our own beliefs so it I impossible to legislate morals and values.

Apparently we should go back to 30 years ago when everything was perfect. Why not go back even farther when black people were slaves and women couldn't vote. Everything was perfect in the past let's never move forward and progress again!!!!!!

 

[Big Red Said]

Hahaha, if anything society has gotten better. There is a big part of that little book of fiction that wants people to love their fellow man and neighbor. Basically, live and let live and don't discriminate. How much discrimination was there 30 years ago? We have come along way for the better!!!!!

As I have heard someone else say before, if the church wants to be so involved in government then we should start taxing churches. Could make a lot of money!!!!

We live in a very diverse society and that is a bad thing? Land of the free and home of the brave. We are free to have our own beliefs so it I impossible to legislate morals and values.

Apparently we should go back to 30 years ago when everything was perfect. Why not go back even farther when black people were slaves and women couldn't vote. Everything was perfect in the past let's never move forward and progress again!!!!!!

Really…

not sure what you are referencing when you say better? I sure as hell don’t see it in my fellow man. Years ago, a handshake from a stranger was a symbol of trust, now trust is a commodity that is shared only by those who you have a long standing relationship with and even then it’s questionable.

Do you watch the news? As a small example I only need to go as far as Omaha… just 10 years ago, murder and crimes as such were there but at the rate of 1 every few months, now if there is not a shooting everyday up there, I would be shocked.

Marriage used to be something that was sacred but now a days you see people getting divorced because they “Fell out of Love” or better yet, they fell into someone else’s bed because the “fire” they thought was love.. when they first got hitched, somehow changed and was not as exciting as it once was.

Our kids today no longer know what it’s like to earn anything. They are entitled to everything because as youth, they were catered to and when they whined and cried and carried on… rolling on the floor kicking and screaming, their parents did not have the time to devote to them or correct them, because they were too involved in their own things… and they circum to the whiny brats wishes, thus they got what they wanted… when they wanted.

As for taxing the Churches… I say whoohoo… I too agree that with all the monster churches that are being built in the name of God, they sure should pay their share to the communities who have supported their lavish structures…

As for other advancements such as you mentioned (Slavery, voter’s rights), I did not say that everything that has evolved was a bad thing. Some things did show improvements… and I think slavery/voters rights were moreover an ethical improvement not a Moral issue. By the way, we also have seen great improvements in automobiles and airplanes, the internet, food products, health care, none of which is a (Moral issue). So your comment saying we should never advance/progress... is.... well... unwarranted.

 

[HuskerInSecLand]

BRS I think I remember that you are a member of the LCMS. Do you realize that the LCMS wrote a "Friend of the Court" brief regarding mandatory prayer and that it is widely believed that this very brief was what swayed the court in favor of banning mandatory prayer in school.
The LCMS wrote they were far-sighted enough to realize that the "church of the day" may not always be Christianity and that they did not want their children's children to be forced to recite rite's to a god they did not believe in and the same way found it unconscionable to force a person of another faith to do so today.

Later regarding allowing prayer back in school they addressed the senate stating that their position was the church did not support the return of prayer or religious instruction to the school. Their position was that christian education belonged in the home and the church. This because prayer in school resulted in meaningless rites addressed repeatedly with no feeling or meaning and that religious education in a government school was without control and even if a "Christian education" it would result in confusing a child with doctrines that were not held by the LCMS and unable to be clarified by one who holds these doctrines to be true.

Do you realize the LCMS withdrew all support from the Lutheran Council of America because their politicization by lobbying Congress had "blurred the lines of separation of Church and State" to the point that the LCMS no longer felt good conscience in providing it's members tithes and offerings to this organization.

The LMCS has long held that the entanglement of Church and State can only lead to the corruption of the church, the state or both and I agree. It makes me vomit when these politicians on both sides start bringing forth religious quotes in an attempt to make themselves look religious.

I hear all the time about today's downfalls being a result of removing prayer from church and religious documents from government buildings. I am 52 years old and I cannot remember a time when prayer was in schools. I do remember reciting the pledge of allegiance and singing a ballad and know that none of that led to my patriotism or even to a smallest thought regarding patriotism. It was ritual, done day in day out with no thought at all.

I imagine religious faith was equally unaffected by school prayer if not inoculated against because of the triteness of repeating what means nothing to one.

My opinion regarding the degradation of society (if it is even there, we always have "those good ol' days) God is not handicapped by a lack of prayer in schools or because a plaque of the ten commandments is not hung on the courthouse wall.

God works through the church. My opinion only but He is handicapped by a church that has become self-involved. That is not interested in the plights of society. Local churches were once the charitable organizations of any community. The local churches food pantry has been replaced by food stamps and community relief agencies that have nothing or only peripheral ties to a church.

Christianity has been commercialized by it's leaders in Mega Churches with pastors who own BMWs and Lexxus's and wear thousand dollar suits broadcasting professional productions and preaching over video/audio equipment that costs hundreds of thousands of dollars for the sole reason of putting on a professional media blitz every Sunday that will woo memebers from the other church down the street who can' afford all that equipment while their followers children come to church hungry.

Then the follower's themselves have branded Christianity into their business dealings with neat little pseudo christian names and "God Bless You" on their voicemail but in their actual dealings stab you in the back to gain a dollar.

No society is not degrading because God's name is not spoken in school. Society is degrading because God has become impotent in society because his followers are no different than the non-believer except for the hypocrisy they put forth by claiming sanctification without sanctity.

 

[HuskerInSecLand]

TL;DR

 

[jedburks]

I can not say it better than HISL but I will at least respond because that is what I do.

If you don't see improvement in your fellow man then you need to be around better people. Just last friday night I helped a random woman walking down HWY 370 in Bellevue in the rainy cold that was stranded because her boyfriend was an asshole. I stopped and let her into my vehicle to be able to warm up and took her where she needed to go. She offered me money for picking her up but I told her no because I just wanted to help. I surprised a nurse at Methodist Hospital with a free pizza because on a separate delivery she was telling me how she wished that pizza was hers but she didn't have any money.

Higher population means more problems. It is just math. Should we do what China does and limit people from having kids? Wait, that might be a good idea for some people.

I can't say a whole lot about the divorce stuff because of my current situation but my current situation is not something that I wanted. The reason why my current situation is happening has more to do with a health issue than anything else. Should people just stay together for the kids and be miserable for the rest of their lives just for the kids like people used to do back in the day? That is always healthy.

Yes there are many kids that are cry baby bitches today. 2 things. 1. My kids are being taught discipline and respect every single day by me. 2. Who is teaching and allowing these kids to act like this? The people that grew up in that great time that you are referencing as being such a great time. Do you blame the media and entertainment for the downfall of kids today? I am who I am today because of the teaching of my family. Not because of anything I saw on TV.

I don't care if it is a mega church or a tiny corner church. Tax them all.

Yes there have been advancement because that is what society will do whether the church likes it or not. Gay people will be allowed to have equal rights, as they should, sooner or later. To discriminate against a group of people in 2012 is just insane. Especially seeing a black man stand up FOR discrimination against a group of people just boggles my mind!!!!!!!

Now I am just a simple minded moron and more than likely completely wrong so please just go back to HISL's post because that was perfectly said.

 

[HuskerInSecLand]

Thx Jed and you said it well. Just the other night I was telling my wife that it blows my mind that a man who 50 years ago would of been delegated to the back of the bus and the kitchen of a restaurant is now telling a city council that they should allow others to do this same thing to another human being.

Rep

 

[jedburks]

Thx Jed and you said it well. Just the other night I was telling my wife that it blows my mind that a man who 50 years ago would of been delegated to the back of the bus and the kitchen of a restaurant is now telling a city council that they should allow others to do this same thing to another human being.

Rep

Back at ya

 

[iruletheskool]

If atheists can get married, gays can.

Thats how i feel

 

[jedburks]

If atheists can get married, gays can.

Thats how i feel

The government isn't goin to force churches to marry gay people. That would the choice of the church. Just let them get married by a JIP at least.

I do love when the religious says, "just don't call it marriage". Why not? Does the church own the would marriage?

 

[HuskerInSecLand]

I don't understand why the church and government are so entangled when it comes to marriage.

Would the church allow the government to tell them who they can baptize (marriage license required)

And doesn't it take a way from the sacrament for marriage to have a minister marrying you do it "by the power vested in me by God and the state of "feel in the blank"

I think the marriage license should be a contract between two people and the government just like any other contract that gives these two people the civil benefits of marriage we have now.

then the church can have their covenants and ceremonies and only do them for whom ever they please and they could absolve them however they see fit.

You could have one or the other or both but neither would have anything to do with the other.

But just to keep from confusing the two, this had nothing to do with Omaha's ordinance.

 

[Big Red Said]

Man, I have to say I am so very impressed with both HISL post and yours Jed. I found nothing wrong in either of your post in regards to the how some of the churches are being operated vs. how they are supposed to be operated.

I truly believe you are a good Dad Jed... and applaud you for doing what’s right with them and others who you have recently helped... obviously your family was well rounded and knew the value of showing you … true care and concern… as well as a kick in the ass when needed…. LOL

HISL; I was not talking specifically about the physical praying in schools, but the fact that anti - religious facets cringe at the very thought of anything in school that can connect or tie religious beliefs to the institution. I do not try to force feed my beliefs on anyone, but I do share my thoughts… just as each of you does with respect to your opinions..

I don't have time to elaborate right now... but kudos to both of you... and Jed... you know you learned some of what you are passing on to your kids from the religious education you had or at least moral education you have had in your life...

PS: Jed; I was unaware of your marital issue, best wishes in getting to where you want to be in that situation.

 

[HuskerInSecLand]

I agree BRS. And I agree there are those forces that would eliminate any religious voice from the public arena.

My point though is that we can not place our failure as a church on them. Salt not only preserves it adds flavor.

We as a church have lost our flavor and I am sure you know what Jesus said regarding that.

 

[bchampy]

That was Champy who said that.

 

[Jack_John_Mark]

I cannot honestly say I know what's going on in this thread, because I hate to read

 

[Jack_John_Mark]

And this here thread has turned into a dadburned book

 

[Papalou]

As I cannot disconnect emotionally from this topic, I will only say kudoes to you gentlemen for having the restraint to keep this conversation civil.

 

[HuskerInSecLand]

As I cannot disconnect emotionally from this topic, I will only say kudoes to you gentlemen for having the restraint to keep this conversation civil.

I had my period yesterday.
















Now I'm horny as hell.