JJ McCarthy 2023 Every Throw and Run

[deanpet21]

Again, rumors don't equate to truth. They are simply rumors.
Just because a team likes a player doesn't mean he would have been their pick right? Nobody knows except those teams what they would have done so its pointless to try to guess what other teams WOULD have done.

I think you and I have different philosophies with the draft. You rely heavily on draft pundits and I prefer the eye test and data. That is fine. I liked Kelvin Harmon and was over the moon when we got him. I could NOT have been more wrong.

I remember the Dotson trade and how we both viewed it differently. I wanted Olave or Hamilton. I think you liked Hamilton but were excited that Rivera pulled off the trade and called me out for not supporting Rivera.

Looking back, it was a bad trade. Turner will probably be cut, Howell is gone, Dotson is an average WR, and Robinson is an ok RB in the league. You were very excited about the trade and actually said something like "Duke, tell me this isn't a good trade". I am telling you now, it was NOT a good trade.

Different philosophies for different folks with the draft.

well the draft pundits go by the data and the eye test. Talk about data look at all the ints Forbes had in college. Thats data right there. Thats how they base their rankings. I was heavily on Hamilton when this whole board wanted WR. We got good value when we traded down so yes i was excited. I did not have Dotson over Hamilton if that is what you are eluding too. I liked the extra picks at the time.

Yes now the trade is blowing up b/c of the coaching and QB changes. This started that you didn't believe Davis and Forbes were 1st round talents at the time of the draft. I disagree.

 

[Skin'EmAll]

And I am sorry but as much as I like KC , I know what he is , and he can’t carry a football team , at 2 overall you need a guy who is a game changer, not a guy who can do well when everything is in place .

You have to trade down to make JJ into a value pick , he isn’t number 2 overall value . Thats my issue with Davis and Dotson and Forbes picks . They weren’t value picks . We passed on better value

Honesty, who at Michigan was carrying the team? Besides JJ, who from that team has GMs running to the podium. Everything was not in place, JJ executed the game plan and team did so as well. But to say they are loaded with all americans or elite talent doesn't necessarily seem accurate.
I think JJ does not have the same athleticism as Daniels and Maye BUT that doesn't mean he can't play at their level.

As far as Davis, Dotson and Forbes, we won't know until this year if they are total misses.
I definitely wouldn't have drafted them. Passing on Olave and Gonzales was criminal.

But I think that's a totally different argument lol

 

[duke1861]

well the draft pundits go by the data and the eye test. Talk about data look at all the ints Forbes had in college. Thats data right there. Thats how they base their rankings. I was heavily on Hamilton when this whole board wanted WR. We got good value when we traded down so yes i was excited. I did not have Dotson over Hamilton if that is what you are eluding too. I liked the extra picks at the time.

Yes now the trade is blowing up b/c of the coaching and QB changes. This started that you didn't believe Davis and Forbes were 1st round talents at the time of the draft. I disagree.

I am not going to get into the whole concept of draft experts. I think this comes down to hypothetical situations and that is more of your realm, no mine.

You mentioned what other teams (Cowboys and Giants) would have done and what they were rumored to potentially pick davis or Forbes. Again, that is not something that interests me and rumors annoy me because there is seldom a credible source to them. You enjoy that stuff, I don't. It's simply a difference of opinion. You aren't wrong, I simply avoid it.

Data is huge but data with context is as well. I didn't like Forbes weight and frame. Skinsdad said that way before anyone and has been spot on. He was right.
The INTs were impressive but at least 2 of his 6 or 7 were tipped balls. Solid plays and solid player, but I would not have drafted him. We didn't need to go CB and he was the wrong one to take.

Youngs numbers were great, but what did I say 4 years ago during our argument? His character was my concern. You dismissed that as did others. Young will now be on his 3rd team in 5 years.

Never said you had Dotson over Hamilton, but you liked the trade and tried to embarass me when it went down and called me out. We had argued about Riveras poor trade skillset. I still believe it was a bad trade and I believe I am right.
Same with wentz, you said after weeks 1 "Where is duke?"
You get overly excited about this stuff.

I think davis is a bust and his 5th year hasn't even been picked up right?

Again, we view the team differently. You get excited about stuff and most of the time, you have been wrong on it. Rivera, Turner, wentz, bienhemy, etc. We are all fans, but you get excited by most if not all team transactions. You do you.

However, you continue to say I am right on things but disagree with how I drew my conclusions.

You do you though and keep up the energy.

 

[deanpet21]

I am not going to get into the whole concept of draft experts. I think this comes down to hypothetical situations and that is more of your realm, no mine.

You mentioned what other teams (Cowboys and Giants) would have done and what they were rumored to potentially pick davis or Forbes. Again, that is not something that interests me and rumors annoy me because there is seldom a credible source to them. You enjoy that stuff, I don't. It's simply a difference of opinion. You aren't wrong, I simply avoid it.

Data is huge but data with context is as well. I didn't like Forbes weight and frame. Skinsdad said that way before anyone and has been spot on. He was right.
The INTs were impressive but at least 2 of his 6 or 7 were tipped balls. Solid plays and solid player, but I would not have drafted him. We didn't need to go CB and he was the wrong one to take.

Youngs numbers were great, but what did I say 4 years ago during our argument? His character was my concern. You dismissed that as did others. Young will now be on his 3rd team in 5 years.

Never said you had Dotson over Hamilton, but you liked the trade and tried to embarass me when it went down and called me out. We had argued about Riveras poor trade skillset. I still believe it was a bad trade and I believe I am right.
Same with wentz, you said after weeks 1 "Where is duke?"
You get overly excited about this stuff.

I think davis is a bust and his 5th year hasn't even been picked up right?

Again, we view the team differently. You get excited about stuff and most of the time, you have been wrong on it. Rivera, Turner, wentz, bienhemy, etc. We are all fans, but you get excited by most if not all team transactions. You do you.

However, you continue to say I am right on things but disagree with how I drew my conclusions.

You do you though and keep up the energy.

As far as rumors go, there were very strong rumors that we were taking Forbes. You can default to kbso for that. He posted alot of stuff about it. Of course you can have an opinion about Young and others can argue it. I wasnt the only one on this board who wanted Young, so this shouldn't be all directed at me.

I dont remember try to embarrass you. The Saints overpaid at the time of the trade. That is why i was excited but still wanted Hamilton. You still bring up the Wentz stuff is classic. You can have an opinion on Davis im not disputing that. What I am disputing is that you didn't think he was a first round talent at the time of the draft. I just disagree. The board is about debate. Everyone doesn't have to agree with you all the time.

Of course I'm going to get excited as a fan. Most fans do. Call me a homer, doesn't bother me at all.

 

[skinsdad62]

Honesty, who at Michigan was carrying the team? Besides JJ, who from that team has GMs running to the podium. Everything was not in place, JJ executed the game plan and team did so as well. But to say they are loaded with all americans or elite talent doesn't necessarily seem accurate.
I think JJ does not have the same athleticism as Daniels and Maye BUT that doesn't mean he can't play at their level.

As far as Davis, Dotson and Forbes, we won't know until this year if they are total misses.
I definitely wouldn't have drafted them. Passing on Olave and Gonzales was criminal.

But I think that's a totally different argument lol

18 pro prospects this yr plus another 10 drafted last yr . He was along for the ride

 

[eaglesnut]

JJ looks good. Can throw downfield, knows how to find his dump off. Pretty good movement in the pocket and great throws while moving outside. Doesn't panic. Plays with poise. A lot to like.

 

[duke1861]

As far as rumors go, there were very strong rumors that we were taking Forbes. You can default to kbso for that. He posted alot of stuff about it. Of course you can have an opinion about Young and others can argue it. I wasnt the only one on this board who wanted Young, so this shouldn't be all directed at me.

I dont remember try to embarrass you. The Saints overpaid at the time of the trade. That is why i was excited but still wanted Hamilton. You still bring up the Wentz stuff is classic. You can have an opinion on Davis im not disputing that. What I am disputing is that you didn't think he was a first round talent at the time of the draft. I just disagree. The board is about debate. Everyone doesn't have to agree with you all the time.

Of course I'm going to get excited as a fan. Most fans do. Call me a homer, doesn't bother me at all.

I can talk to whoever you wish including kbso.

I am simply saying you enjoy the rumor mill. You did bring it up, so yes, I am directing the question at you. I am saying rumors are what they are. You consider them truth...I don't. We have talked about this before.

It was a rumor based off a bogus espn report that EB would have GM duties with the offense. You drove that rumor and it caused confusion.

The rumor that multiple teams wanted wentz. It was confirmed we were the only team interested in a trade. You drove that rumor dean.

Those are 2 examples. I can provide more if you wish. The moral of the story is that rumors are just that. You taking rumors as truth has not done you any favors. Just an observation.

To me, it seems we are defending the pick by using conjecture and here se. The bottom line is, would you have picked davis all over? I don't think anyone would. I am probably wrong.

Would you have picked Young over again?
Would you have picked Forbes over again?
Would you have traded back in 2022 again?

Putting unsubstantiated rumors and draft grades from self anointed draft pundits aside, were they correct decisions.

I can say with 100% certainty, they were not.

Agreed that it is a message board, and nobody has to agree with me. To your point, most people don't. Why have I been spot on though on these examples though? How am I hitting on it every time? I am not smarter than anyone else here.

Yes, we are all fans. But like skinsdad has said, excitement and standing on the table again and again will lead to you being called out. You dont like the phrase rubber stamp, but isn't that what it is? Every draft pick and every free agent are approved of almost immediately by you right?

I am just as much a fan as you, but I don't believe every convient rumor or support every front office decision.

 

[deanpet21]

I can talk to whoever you wish including kbso.

I am simply saying you enjoy the rumor mill. You did bring it up, so yes, I am directing the question at you. I am saying rumors are what they are. You consider them truth...I don't. We have talked about this before.

It was a rumor based off a bogus espn report that EB would have GM duties with the offense. You drove that rumor and it caused confusion.

The rumor that multiple teams wanted wentz. It was confirmed we were the only team interested in a trade. You drove that rumor dean.

Those are 2 examples. I can provide more if you wish. The moral of the story is that rumors are just that. You taking rumors as truth has not done you any favors. Just an observation.

To me, it seems we are defending the pick by using conjecture and here se. The bottom line is, would you have picked davis all over? I don't think anyone would. I am probably wrong.

Would you have picked Young over again?
Would you have picked Forbes over again?
Would you have traded back in 2022 again?

Putting unsubstantiated rumors and draft grades from self anointed draft pundits aside, were they correct decisions.

I can say with 100% certainty, they were not.

Agreed that it is a message board, and nobody has to agree with me. To your point, most people don't. Why have I been spot on though on these examples though? How am I hitting on it every time? I am not smarter than anyone else here.

Yes, we are all fans. But like skinsdad has said, excitement and standing on the table again and again will lead to you being called out. You dont like the phrase rubber stamp, but isn't that what it is? Every draft pick and every free agent are approved of almost immediately by you right?

I am just as much a fan as you, but I don't believe every convient rumor or support every front office decision.

Those are Monday Morning QB questions, and you know it. Of course, now we can 2nd guess but I see why those players were selected. They weren't players out of left field that were selected. You beleive that they were at the time. Which is fine. Thats your word rubber stamp. I can see why the player was picked, that doesn't mean rubber stamp. Again, i would have taken Gonzo over Forbes but it's not up to me. Skinsdad knows full well i dont approve of every pick. Ask him about Trent Murphy or Spencer Long draft picks

As far as rumors goes. Some sources like an Adam Schfter you can believe. For example, he believes we are going to take JD. Will it happen we dont know but there is a good chance it will happen. There is nothing wrong for a fan to get excited about this rumor if they are JD fans. Im not telling you to believe the rumor but to acknowledge that it's out there and could happen.

 

[deanpet21]

JJ looks good. Can throw downfield, knows how to find his dump off. Pretty good movement in the pocket and great throws while moving outside. Doesn't panic. Plays with poise. A lot to like.

would you take him at #2?

 

[eaglesnut]

would you take him at #2?

I'm still reviewing these QBs comparing to each other.

If I had no QB and there were no others. Sure. He checks enough boxes to be a franchise guy.

 

[deanpet21]

I'm still reviewing these QBs comparing to each other.

If I had no QB and there were no others. Sure. He checks enough boxes to be a franchise guy.

This board seems to be split on JD and Maye. Could be a board meltdown if JJ is the pick at #2. lol

 

[skinsdad62]

Those are Monday Morning QB questions, and you know it. Of course, now we can 2nd guess but I see why those players were selected. They weren't players out of left field that were selected. You beleive that they were at the time. Which is fine. Thats your word rubber stamp. I can see why the player was picked, that doesn't mean rubber stamp. Again, i would have taken Gonzo over Forbes but it's not up to me. Skinsdad knows full well i dont approve of every pick. Ask him about Trent Murphy or Spencer Long draft picks

As far as rumors goes. Some sources like an Adam Schfter you can believe. For example, he believes we are going to take JD. Will it happen we dont know but there is a good chance it will happen. There is nothing wrong for a fan to get excited about this rumor if they are JD fans. Im not telling you to believe the rumor but to acknowledge that it's out there and could happen.

This is crap because other then chase Young I criticized the picks . Olave is clearly better than Dotson at this point and Robby is a dime a dozen rb . The others aren’t on the team . We drafted a project LB and followed up with a project CB niether looking like their 5th year options will be picked up so shove that Monday morning cliche because I damn sure was saying it was ate up from jump street

 

[deanpet21]

This is crap because other then chase Young I criticized the picks . Olave is clearly better than Dotson at this point and Robby is a dime a dozen rb . The others aren’t on the team . We drafted a project LB and followed up with a project CB niether looking like their 5th year options will be picked up so shove that Monday morning cliche because I damn sure was saying it was ate up from jump street

Was the project LB and CB had first round picks at the time of the draft? Or did you have 3rd round grades on them? that was my point.

 

[duke1861]

Those are Monday Morning QB questions, and you know it. Of course, now we can 2nd guess but I see why those players were selected. They weren't players out of left field that were selected. You beleive that they were at the time. Which is fine. Thats your word rubber stamp. I can see why the player was picked, that doesn't mean rubber stamp. Again, i would have taken Gonzo over Forbes but it's not up to me. Skinsdad knows full well i dont approve of every pick. Ask him about Trent Murphy or Spencer Long draft picks

As far as rumors goes. Some sources like an Adam Schfter you can believe. For example, he believes we are going to take JD. Will it happen we dont know but there is a good chance it will happen. There is nothing wrong for a fan to get excited about this rumor if they are JD fans. Im not telling you to believe the rumor but to acknowledge that it's out there and could happen.

They aren't Monday morning qb questions.
I said them at the time. You and I have argued about these things endlessly. I can pull posts if you wish. I didn't wait until results came in, I said it at the time.

You did in fact call me out with the trade.
Thread
2022 draft tracker thread
Post 111
Dean said: How about our front office? Where is duke?

Go see it for yourself. Again, you got excited and now it's come back to bite you. Would you not take the comment back? You know as well as I that we had the worst front office in the nfl with Rivera.

You continue to say you are a fan and get excited but it skews your judgement occasionally. Your comment above is an example. You got excited about a trade and Rivera. You were wrong.

I dont do rumors Dean. Sorry, but rumors are everywhere this time of year and they have little value in my opinion. It is pointless to get excited because one would get worked up over something that could or could not be true.

I am not telling you how to be a fan, but I am telling you the consequences of being excited and playing the rumor mill game.

 

[duke1861]

Was the project LB and CB had first round picks at the time of the draft? Or did you have 3rd round grades on them? that was my point.

According to who Dean?

Again, you take draft experts as the source of truth. Which ones are right and which ones are wrong?

A draft expert can say John Smith has a 1st round grade and another can say they have a 4th round grade.

These are just opinions and you take them as fact. Several people have told you this.

Most draft experts have no clue what they are talking about.

 

[skinsdad62]

Was the project LB and CB had first round picks at the time of the draft? Or did you have 3rd round grades on them? that was my point.

Then it’s even worse dean

 

[skinsdad62]

You take 3rd round graded prospects and draft them round 1? WTF ?

 

[deanpet21]

They aren't Monday morning qb questions.
I said them at the time. You and I have argued about these things endlessly. I can pull posts if you wish. I didn't wait until results came in, I said it at the time.

You did in fact call me out with the trade.
Thread
2022 draft tracker thread
Post 111
Dean said: How about our front office? Where is duke?

Go see it for yourself. Again, you got excited and now it's come back to bite you. Would you not take the comment back? You know as well as I that we had the worst front office in the nfl with Rivera.

You continue to say you are a fan and get excited but it skews your judgement occasionally. Your comment above is an example. You got excited about a trade and Rivera. You were wrong.

I dont do rumors Dean. Sorry, but rumors are everywhere this time of year and they have little value in my opinion. It is pointless to get excited because one would get worked up over something that could or could not be true.

I am not telling you how to be a fan, but I am telling you the consequences of being excited and playing the rumor mill game.

never said you were wrong about the trade. You cant stop fans from being excited.

 

[deanpet21]

According to who Dean?

Again, you take draft experts as the source of truth. Which ones are right and which ones are wrong?

A draft expert can say John Smith has a 1st round grade and another can say they have a 4th round grade.

These are just opinions and you take them as fact. Several people have told you this.

Most draft experts have no clue what they are talking about.

they are usually not 3 rounds off. cmon. What would happen if Bo Nix was taken at #2? No one would flip out?

 

[deanpet21]

You take 3rd round graded prospects and draft them round 1? WTF ?

i didnt have 3rd round grade prospects on them. You did. Answer the question Did Davis and Forbes have 1st round grades on them coming into the draft? yes or no