If Roman leaves

[Pattersonca65]

"[Mangini] was considered for a move to quarterbacks coach, sources told CSNBayArea.com on Wednesday," wrote Matt Maiocco. "One source said moving Mangini to quarterbacks coach and promoting quarterbacks coach Geep Chryst to offensive coordinator was an option for coach Jim Harbaugh’s reshuffling of the coaching staff if the 49ers lost offensive coordinator Greg Roman. The source said he does not believe Harbaugh plans to make any changes."


This doesn't sound very good if Roman were to leave.

 

[4lifer9er]

He should first both those clowns..

 

[Ray_Dogg]

Chryst as OC would intrigue me but the Mangina as QB coach seems like he would be learning on the fly which is lame imo. He must blow Harbs.

 

[MHSL82]

"[Mangini] was considered for a move to quarterbacks coach, sources told CSNBayArea.com on Wednesday," wrote Matt Maiocco. "One source said moving Mangini to quarterbacks coach and promoting quarterbacks coach Geep Chryst to offensive coordinator was an option for coach Jim Harbaugh’s reshuffling of the coaching staff if the 49ers lost offensive coordinator Greg Roman. The source said he does not believe Harbaugh plans to make any changes."


This doesn't sound very good if Roman were to leave.

Maybe that would mean Chrystal takes a Pederson role. In Kansas City, Andy Reid calls the plays and Pederson, their OC, installs the gameplan that they work in together in the week. Harbaugh could call the plays, three years professional HC experience, college HC experience, and a former QB. Maybe we'd start seeing more passes because running-game-genius Roman is gone and Gore is getting older. Yes, a bit of sarcasm there.

Not saying this is the best choice, as bringing in a real good OC would be better, just saying Chryst plan doesn't have to be that drastic of a switch or downgrade (giving Roman some benefit if the doubt here and assuming the first year is especially difficult for Chryst).

 

[Pattersonca65]

This move brings up nightmares of Jim Hostler and whoever became the QB coach at the time.

 

[sjballer03]

Maybe that would mean Chrystal takes a Pederson role. In Kansas City, Andy Reid calls the plays and Pederson, their OC, installs the gameplan that they work in together in the week. Harbaugh could call the plays, three years professional HC experience, college HC experience, and a former QB. Maybe we'd start seeing more passes because running-game-genius Roman is gone and Gore is getting older. Yes, a bit of sarcasm there.

Not saying this is the best choice, as bringing in a real good OC would be better, just saying Chryst plan doesn't have to be that drastic of a switch or downgrade (giving Roman some benefit if the doubt here and assuming the first year is especially difficult for Chryst).

I would have no problem with this scenario. Harbaugh should more than capable of calling the plays.

 

[MHSL82]

Argh. AutoCorrect changes it to Crystal. I'm sure people have called him that, like Michael turns into Michelle, Daniel into Danielle. You know, real creative stuff.

 

[CalamityX11]

Get rid of Mangini... the guy is worthless.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

If Morton returns as the WRs coach, I'm going to be absolutely furious. Our work developing WRs over the last three years (and, in fairness, before that) has been an absolute joke. I would prefer to move on from Roman, as well, but I can understand if we keep him. If we do, though, he'd better figure out how to do more than run power with this offense.

 

[-AC-]

If Morton returns as the WRs coach, I'm going to be absolutely furious. Our work developing WRs over the last three years (and, in fairness, before that) has been an absolute joke. I would prefer to move on from Roman, as well, but I can understand if we keep him. If we do, though, he'd better figure out how to do more than run power with this offense.

Agreed, I've been saying that since back in his USC days... I think I even brought this up on this board about a year ago...

 

[Pattersonca65]

If Morton returns as the WRs coach, I'm going to be absolutely furious. Our work developing WRs over the last three years (and, in fairness, before that) has been an absolute joke. I would prefer to move on from Roman, as well, but I can understand if we keep him. If we do, though, he'd better figure out how to do more than run power with this offense.

The Saints ran for 4.2 yds per carry in their divisional playoff game. What the heck is wrong with our running game?

 

[Crimsoncrew]

The Saints ran for 4.2 yds per carry in their divisional playoff game. What the heck is wrong with our running game?

Drew Brees vs. Colin Kaepernick. The Hawks were playing the pass against the Saints. They were playing the run against us.

 

[MHSL82]

The Saints ran for 4.2 yds per carry in their divisional playoff game. What the heck is wrong with our running game?

Maybe they back off more against Brees? I like Kaepernick and all but one thing that makes him surprise is when he hits when no one respected him (crowd the box). I REALLY thought that was the whole point of going conservative in the regular season. But then we hit a frozen Lambeau and two great defensive teams. If we had faced Green Bay at home and New Orleans anywhere (despite Rob Ryan's improvement of their defense), we would have seen a different Kaepernick in regards to pass attempts, IMO. Is that enough to open the running game (minus the QB) to 4.2 or higher? My guess, yes. They must have changed for Brees, so their defensive gameplan would have changed if they predicted more passes.

 

[Jikkle]

If Morton returns as the WRs coach, I'm going to be absolutely furious. Our work developing WRs over the last three years (and, in fairness, before that) has been an absolute joke. I would prefer to move on from Roman, as well, but I can understand if we keep him. If we do, though, he'd better figure out how to do more than run power with this offense.

I can begrudgingly give Morton a pass because we've invested very little into the WR position. Jenkins was the only guy we invested a significant draft pick into and clearly it was a terrible pick but other than that we've had guys in the 6th round or later aside from Patton but it's too early to judge him yet.

What does concern me is from what I understand he helps draw up the passing attack and for that alone he should be gone as our pass design was lacking to be kind imo.

Agree on Roman in that he really needs to expand his offense more from the power running attack. Not that I'm suggesting we abandon it by any means but the Seattle game should make it very clear we need to effectively run it from other formations outside of the power one.

The fundamental flaw with Roman's power running offense is it needs a lot of moving parts to execute to work and if defenses dedicate to stopping they will regardless of how many big bodies we have out there. The double edged sword with the formation is we're completely limiting what defenses have to think about since there isn't a whole lot you can do out of it aside from play action or power running. When you have 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 RB the play can almost be anything which means defenses have a lot more to read, think about, and cover.

 

[TobyTyler]

Roman's offense is stale but I think that's because Harbaugh imposes a lot of restrictions on him. With a more agressive head coach I think roman could be a successful OC again. He came up with some pretty innovative stuff in 2011.

 

[Jikkle]

Roman's offense is stale but I think that's because Harbaugh imposes a lot of restrictions on him. With a more agressive head coach I think roman could be a successful OC again. He came up with some pretty innovative stuff in 2011.

Harbaugh was the coach in 2011 so I don't think it's a Harbaugh problem.

The issue as I see it is in 2011 what he was doing was mostly unseen and unheard of in the NFL but in 2013 he's doing the same stuff and defenses have long caught up with it.

Defenses aren't confused with all the formation shifts and different bodies out there because it's all window dressing for the fact Gore is going to either get the ball on the left side or right side and all you have to is read which way the Guards pull to know which direction the ball is almost certain to go to.

There was a reason Roman was just a run game coordinator at Standford and why Shaw become the HC there.

What's frustrating with Roman is he's either brilliant or he leaves you completely scratching your head. The designed runs to Kap in the Seattle game were excellent but on the flip side the runs to Gore when it was painfully obvious Seattle was completely locked in to stop it not so much.

 

[TobyTyler]

Harbaugh was the coach in 2011 so I don't think it's a Harbaugh problem.

The issue as I see it is in 2011 what he was doing was mostly unseen and unheard of in the NFL but in 2013 he's doing the same stuff and defenses have long caught up with it.
Defenses aren't confused with all the formation shifts and different bodies out there because it's all window dressing for the fact Gore is going to either get the ball on the left side or right side and all you have to is read which way the Guards pull to know which direction the ball is almost certain to go to.

There was a reason Roman was just a run game coordinator at Standford and why Shaw become the HC there.

What's frustrating with Roman is he's either brilliant or he leaves you completely scratching your head. The designed runs to Kap in the Seattle game were excellent but on the flip side the runs to Gore when it was painfully obvious Seattle was completely locked in to stop it not so much.

I agree with the first part of the bolded but not the second. That stuff was new and innovative but in 2013 they don't do any of that stuff; its just the ultra conservtive "line up and beat your man". Now maybe that is because of the limitations a one read Qb puts on your offense but there is none of the innovativeness they used in 2011. Its a very dangerous way to play in my opinion because one mistake can kill you since the games are always so close.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

I can begrudgingly give Morton a pass because we've invested very little into the WR position. Jenkins was the only guy we invested a significant draft pick into and clearly it was a terrible pick but other than that we've had guys in the 6th round or later aside from Patton but it's too early to judge him yet.

What does concern me is from what I understand he helps draw up the passing attack and for that alone he should be gone as our pass design was lacking to be kind imo.

But isn't that the point of coaches? Developing players? Morton has been the WRs coach for three years, and we haven't come close to developing a player at the WR in that time. It was so bad this year that we didn't get a TD from any receiver other than Crabtree (one) and Boldin, despite Crabtree missing 11 games. All of our receivers other than Crabtree and Boldin - which means a starting WR in 11 games and a third receiver in five - combined to produce 29 receptions for 253 yards. And almost half of that was done by a guy who got cut at midseason.

It seems that virtually every other position group on the team has gotten production out of late-round picks or UDFA. Bruce Miller has been great. Garrett Celek has been decent as a blocker who occasionally catches the ball. Anthony Dixon has found a niche and RB is a pretty solid position for us. The DL had a slew of UDFAs contributing this year. Wilhoite has done a nice job when we've needed him to step in. Tramaine Brock basically became a starting CB this year. Only the WR position combines need and opportunity (the OL is full of talented players who basically play every snap, though I am somewhat troubled that Snyder came in before Kilgore and Looney) with a failure to plug in players.

Meanwhile, teams across the league get production out of afterthoughts at the WR position. Seattle had two UDFA WRs put up 150 yards and a TD against us in the championship game. That's almost the production we got out of our second/third receiver (whoever it happened to be in a given week) all season. Cole Beasley (UDFA) had 368 yards and 2 TDs as Dallas' 3rd/4th receiver, not to mention what Miles Austin has done over his career there. Victor Cruz (UDFA) has been an impact player for the Giants. Riley Cooper (5th round) had 800 yards and 8 TDs for the Eagles. Aldrick Robinson (6th round) had 365 and 2 TDs for the Skins. Chris Givens (4th round) led the Rams WRs with 569 yards. Jarrett Boykin (UDFA rookie) put up over 600 yards and 3 TDs, primarily with Scott Tolzien and Matt Flynn at QB. Kris Durham (4th round and then cut by Seattle) had 490 and 2 for the Lions. The Vikes' Jarius Wright (4th round) had 434 and 3 TDs. Kenny Stills (5th round) had 641 yards and 5 TDs for NO. Tiquan Underwood (7th round) had 440 and 4 TDs for the Bucs.

That's just the NFC, and all but one or two teams are getting solid-to-very good production from later-round picks. The Bears and Cards have two or three good WRs who were high draft picks, and Earl Bennett is no longer young, so they're not on the list. Only the Panthers have completely failed to develop late-round talent to fill a need at WR, and they're getting pretty good production out of a guy we cut loose after he did nothing for us as a receiver.

Now, I'm not prepared to say Morton is the whole problem. But he sure as hell hasn't done anything to suggest he's the solution. Why should he get a pass when production at WR is very arguably our biggest concern this offseason?

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Oh, and I really, REALLY don't want Mangini as the QBs coach. We need a guy who can work on Kap's fundamentals, not a guy who has worked on the defensive side of the ball his whole career.

 

[Arete Tzu]

are there any more head coaching vacancies left in the NFL?