If Dana would leave?????

[mad2mc]

Hey Mad, you looked the other way for Fraud's womanizing, so what's the difference? You look the other way for surfer dude's shenanigans and call newspaper reporters names because they report it, so again, what's the difference? ANYWAY, Saturday set this program on its heels, no bowl game, no extra practices, out of the news, recruits will start to bail out soon. We fired our last coach because he lost to UConn, who, by the way, won the league that year, but it is AOK to lose to one of the worst teams in football!!!!!!!

Petrino got caught with more than his hand in the cookie jar and it was all proven. It was always alledged that RR had impregnated a cheerleader, but I haven't seen or read anything confirming it. I guess you have. Would definitely hate to have you sit as a juror on a trial.

As far as "surfer dude", I associate a "surfer dude" with somebody from California, not somebody from Iowa. Once again, disagreeing with a reporter for what he writes is far from saying that womanizing is alright in any form or arena. Let's not even go into what happen with Stewart at VMI. Didn't he resign the HC gig due to a insensitive comment?

What was the real reason Stewart got fired? Silly to think it was because he lost to UConn, isn't it? You can add 'shenanigans' to Stewart's resume, among other things (not firing assistant coaches, making changes to the coaching staff, going to the media with false information about the 'coach in waiting').

Poppy - it's funny that you think that you know how I feel about things. I do not sit and pout about things. Not sure where anybody said that it was OK to lose to a poor team. Never is, but it happens.

 

[JIMKOON]

Petrino got caught with more than his hand in the cookie jar and it was all proven. It was always alledged that RR had impregnated a cheerleader, but I haven't seen or read anything confirming it. I guess you have. Would definitely hate to have you sit as a juror on a trial.

As far as "surfer dude", I associate a "surfer dude" with somebody from California, not somebody from Iowa. Once again, disagreeing with a reporter for what he writes is far from saying that womanizing is alright in any form or arena. Let's not even go into what happen with Stewart at VMI. Didn't he resign the HC gig due to a insensitive comment?

What was the real reason Stewart got fired? Silly to think it was because he lost to UConn, isn't it? You can add 'shenanigans' to Stewart's resume, among other things (not firing assistant coaches, making changes to the coaching staff, going to the media with false information about the 'coach in waiting').

Poppy - it's funny that you think that you know how I feel about things. I do not sit and pout about things. Not sure where anybody said that it was OK to lose to a poor team. Never is, but it happens.

There was never anything more than gossip about RR, it was vicious and never ever proven, but I have no sympathy for him either. I would ask tho that you leave Stewart out of you casting stones. He is dead, he has no resume and no defendable position, so let him rest in peace.

Dana Holgerson is not a head coach. We are the witness to his inability to be a leader and the inspirational hub of a group of young men on the field of play. WVU can ill afford this, the investment in our move to what we all wanted, the Big 12, is far more important than any amount of buyout. We need leadership, we need the fire of integrity for which our players can look up to, play to, respect. I don't have a clue who it should be, but after the horrendous display we have witnessed the second half of last year and for 11 games this year, enough is enough. He has nothing with which to entice great talent to Morgantown, and I don't care how many nice buildings are built. Without the solid character of the person serving as head coach, the truly talented will go to the big programs, and they continually do. WVU will suffer for the failure to keep Dana Holgerson for another year.

 

[JIMKOON]

I'm not saying Holgorsen is the answer, I'm saying it is to early to fire him. He has only had one recruiting class of his own. 2012 the class was pretty much set from his late entry into the position. I would give him 2 more years pending a bowl game next year. No Bowl game next year and then I would say cut ties.

How many here are going to be calling for Hug's head at the end of this year? Last year was terrible, and I don't think this year will be much better. We lost to a very bad VT team with a player that started 30 games suspended. Look at our BB recruiting this past year and what we have so far for next year. I don't see the 4 stars there we had the past few years. I'm just curious how many want him gone? I'm not saying fire Hug's just pointing out there is a double standard.

I've heard about enough in regards to Holgerson's lack of recruiting. He can't coach, he can't recruit, he can't inspire the talent HE brought in. If we allow another year of this activity, we will have thrown away the future of Mountaineer football for 5+ years moving forward.

And, in my opinion, Huggins is WAY past his prime, and if he gets much larger, he is gonna stroke out anyways. How can a Hall of Fame coach not be capable of recruiting better talent than self centered thugs? How come he can't get the great players? I called for Huggins head last year. I will do so without substantial improvement this year.

I understand what Luck was attempting to do in both football and basketball, and it is not working. The only good things we have had in the Big 12, have been the non-revenue teams. This will never attract the talent needed to be a champion in the Big 12.

 

[WVUDAD]

Petrino got caught with more than his hand in the cookie jar and it was all proven. It was always alledged that RR had impregnated a cheerleader, but I haven't seen or read anything confirming it. I guess you have. Would definitely hate to have you sit as a juror on a trial.

As far as "surfer dude", I associate a "surfer dude" with somebody from California, not somebody from Iowa. Once again, disagreeing with a reporter for what he writes is far from saying that womanizing is alright in any form or arena. Let's not even go into what happen with Stewart at VMI. Didn't he resign the HC gig due to a insensitive comment?

What was the real reason Stewart got fired? Silly to think it was because he lost to UConn, isn't it? You can add 'shenanigans' to Stewart's resume, among other things (not firing assistant coaches, making changes to the coaching staff, going to the media with false information about the 'coach in waiting').

Poppy - it's funny that you think that you know how I feel about things. I do not sit and pout about things. Not sure where anybody said that it was OK to lose to a poor team. Never is, but it happens.

Mad, I just dont get it, I SAID, coaching is a very alpha male job, and with alpha male people comes alpha activity. you listed off a bunch of things that a bunch of men have done... and came to the conclusion that wrong is not defined by what was done, but by whether you got caught..........by the way, Stewart got fired for the same reason WVU fans hated Bowden, they talked like hicks, and we just can not stand a hick talking for us.

 

[mad2mc]

Mad, I just dont get it, I SAID, coaching is a very alpha male job, and with alpha male people comes alpha activity. you listed off a bunch of things that a bunch of men have done... and came to the conclusion that wrong is not defined by what was done, but by whether you got caught..........by the way, Stewart got fired for the same reason WVU fans hated Bowden, they talked like hicks, and we just can not stand a hick talking for us.

No, you said that it is alright to be a womanizer being a head coach. I still believe that you are innocent until proven guilty. Unfortunately, sometimes this isn't the case. Petrino confessed to his wrong doings. Nobody came out against RR.

If Stewart got fired for "talking like a hick", then why did you say he got fired for losing the UConn game?

Jim - what I said about Stewart was not disrespectful nor intended to be. It's unfortunate that some cannot have a discussion without interjecting him into the discussion.

 

[Anotherwvufan]

I'm not saying Holgorsen is the answer, I'm saying it is to early to fire him. He has only had one recruiting class of his own. 2012 the class was pretty much set from his late entry into the position. I would give him 2 more years pending a bowl game next year. No Bowl game next year and then I would say cut ties.

How many here are going to be calling for Hug's head at the end of this year? Last year was terrible, and I don't think this year will be much better. We lost to a very bad VT team with a player that started 30 games suspended. Look at our BB recruiting this past year and what we have so far for next year. I don't see the 4 stars there we had the past few years. I'm just curious how many want him gone? I'm not saying fire Hug's just pointing out there is a double standard.

Mike: I have to agree with you on this one. While I have little faith in HCDS, he does need his full chance to turn it around. He is pretty safe with his buyout for the coming year, but if no improvement is shown, ties need to be cut.

Huggs gets cudos for bringing us to the final four from the fans, but the game may be passing him by. After bringing in Ebanks, Jones and Truck, he has not had a stellar recruiting class and seems to unable to mold the guys he does bring in to follow his program. The amount of transfers out in the past two years is a disturbing trend. Only having 9 players worthy of a scholarship is also disturbing.

Both of these coaches can make the excuse that their teams are young and lack senior leadership and depth. on Huggs hand, it was self inflicted: he recruited thugs and drug dealers who ultimately failed to qualify or left the team. I believe that recruiting for basketball will be much more difficult than football in the B12. As bad as the Big East was in football, basketball was the glory sport. Now we get to recruit in ACC and Big 10 country. Looks like it has killed the New York pipeline that has been so good for Huggs over the years.

 

[WVUDAD]

No, you said that it is alright to be a womanizer being a head coach. I still believe that you are innocent until proven guilty. Unfortunately, sometimes this isn't the case. Petrino confessed to his wrong doings. Nobody came out against RR.

If Stewart got fired for "talking like a hick", then why did you say he got fired for losing the UConn game?

Jim - what I said about Stewart was not disrespectful nor intended to be. It's unfortunate that some cannot have a discussion without interjecting him into the discussion.

Mad, I said it kinda goes with the personality that goes with being an alpha type. Stewart was hated by a lot of the fans for talking like a hick, just as Bowden was. Luck fired him because he lost to UConn and was not "his guy". I get you, a person is not guilty until they get caught red handed. Regardless of the past, WVUs money sports are a huge mess right now, and it needs fixed. Signing the extension with an unproven young coach was foolish at best. Three years into Holgorsen's tenure, and no QB that can run the offense???? Talent enough to play with OU and UT, talent enough to BEAT OSU, and STILL people are claiming a bare cupboard. Holgorsen lost his team after the win at Texas last year, and has yet to get it back.

 

[JIMKOON]

Mad, I said it kinda goes with the personality that goes with being an alpha type. Stewart was hated by a lot of the fans for talking like a hick, just as Bowden was. Luck fired him because he lost to UConn and was not "his guy". I get you, a person is not guilty until they get caught red handed. Regardless of the past, WVUs money sports are a huge mess right now, and it needs fixed. Signing the extension with an unproven young coach was foolish at best. Three years into Holgorsen's tenure, and no QB that can run the offense???? Talent enough to play with OU and UT, talent enough to BEAT OSU, and STILL people are claiming a bare cupboard. Holgorsen lost his team after the win at Texas last year, and has yet to get it back.

Yes, Holgerson lost something last year, but honestly, it wasn't so much what he lost, it was what he has not yet found. The ability to be a head coach, to inspire from the bottom of the barrel an attitude of respectability on the field of play, within himself, the other coaches and, most importantly, the players themselves. At the beginning of the season, I too felt this team was young, lacking in the requisite experience to compete. After 11 games, there isn't a single phase of the 3 sides of the ball(offense, defense and special teams) that has shown even a measurable amount of growth, none, zilch, zero, and that has historically proven to be a direct result of the failure of the head coach. Inspirational leadership is tough, it has to be balanced in it's ability to encourage a player, yet scold with an attitude of self improvement. This very skill is sorely lacking in Dana Holgerson, and that is the prime reason for the product we have now been witness to since mid-season last year. It is the cancer that has spread all season. There is a serious lack of respect within the team itself, no matter how much positive the press seems to be.

 

[WVUDAD]

Yes, Holgerson lost something last year, but honestly, it wasn't so much what he lost, it was what he has not yet found. The ability to be a head coach, to inspire from the bottom of the barrel an attitude of respectability on the field of play, within himself, the other coaches and, most importantly, the players themselves. At the beginning of the season, I too felt this team was young, lacking in the requisite experience to compete. After 11 games, there isn't a single phase of the 3 sides of the ball(offense, defense and special teams) that has shown even a measurable amount of growth, none, zilch, zero, and that has historically proven to be a direct result of the failure of the head coach. Inspirational leadership is tough, it has to be balanced in it's ability to encourage a player, yet scold with an attitude of self improvement. This very skill is sorely lacking in Dana Holgerson, and that is the prime reason for the product we have now been witness to since mid-season last year. It is the cancer that has spread all season. There is a serious lack of respect within the team itself, no matter how much positive the press seems to be.

100% Holgorsen seems to instill in the players a false arrogance, that hard work is not required. I too have seen little improvement from game one to game 12 in any of his three years here. This team has no respect for themselves, for their coaches, for their opponents, or for WVU.

 

[JIMKOON]

100% Holgorsen seems to instill in the players a false arrogance, that hard work is not required. I too have seen little improvement from game one to game 12 in any of his three years here. This team has no respect for themselves, for their coaches, for their opponents, or for WVU.

The only thing I do not agree about is the arrogance. He doesn't know how to be appropriately arrogant, so how could he teach it? Now I'm talking squarely about football, it is not my place to cast anything about his personal life, that is his peace to deal with, but his on field, within the program, demeanor is simply, confused. The cohesive binding of the team, quickly begins to go to pieces in crisis time. That is not arrogance, that is the utter confusion we witness(one good play, 5 bad plays), but once more, any coach you choose, they either have it, or they don't. it is my opinion that Dana Holgerson does not yet have that binding influence for this team. Can he get it? One would hope, but as now evidenced by some 17 games in the last year and a half, our coach has shown no measurable growth either.

I know there is a buyout clause, it would be expensive, but our total investment in this move to the Big 12, screams for change, at any cost. I say again, if we do not change, and are forced to endure another season of less than spectacular play on the field, we will destroy our program for the next 5+ years. Since our current roster is so young, the transition for them will be relatively easy. We need viability and respectability, within the conference, and within the recruiting world. I'm not a Chicago Cubs fan, but right now, I know how they feel, and just like them, waiting till next year without demonstrable change, right now, will leave us yearning for next year, for man years to come.

 

[DCWV4life]

minus 1 for saying that this is anything like being a cubs fan! LMAO

 

[JIMKOON]

minus 1 for saying that this is anything like being a cubs fan! LMAO

Sorry, it was the only perpetual loser that I could think of, but it was not meant with any offense.

 

[DCWV4life]

Sorry, it was the only perpetual loser that I could think of, but it was not meant with any offense.

None taken, but this is nothing like being a Cubs fan....we are two years removed from a BCS victory...I can't even rememebr the last time the Cubs won the central....

 

[JIMKOON]

None taken, but this is nothing like being a Cubs fan....we are two years removed from a BCS victory...I can't even rememebr the last time the Cubs won the central....

My opinion was simply that without a change, that is where our football program could head, not that it has totally, but we are not in the Big Least anymore, we cannot for too long endure a consistently poor product on the field. We need those recruits from Texas and Oklahoma to be competitive year in and year out, and losing, even with great facilities, will not entice those star recruits to go far away from home and friends, where, as I have been witness to for 33, bragging rights rule. A consistent recruitment of players of average to good skills, will not raise us to a level of champion. Just ask Kansas! They are thrilled we are in the Big 12!

 

[Slaton10]

I like the Bobby P idea.

Can't beleive I am going to feed into this...but for the sake of argument...if you really would consider Petrino or Rodriguez there is a better candidate out there sitting on the side lines......


Jim Tressel......

 

[DCWV4life]

My opinion was simply that without a change, that is where our football program could head, not that it has totally, but we are not in the Big Least anymore, we cannot for too long endure a consistently poor product on the field. We need those recruits from Texas and Oklahoma to be competitive year in and year out, and losing, even with great facilities, will not entice those star recruits to go far away from home and friends, where, as I have been witness to for 33, bragging rights rule. A consistent recruitment of players of average to good skills, will not raise us to a level of champion. Just ask Kansas! They are thrilled we are in the Big 12!

Then what we disagree on is time, one year is not going to ruin your recruiting for years to come...plus if there is one area where it is not going bad for us it is recruiting.....some of these guys wea re getting are real solid players. You can throw out the QB situation and i would have to agree with you why didn't we get one(I personally think he thought to highly of Trickett) but besides QB and that is a big "besides" we are getting better overall talent than we have before.

We are graduating 12 Sr's (one being Sims) 2 or 3 contributors, is it really a suprise that there is no leadership? Leadership will develope with these new players.

 

[DCWV4life]

Can't beleive I am going to feed into this...but for the sake of argument...if you really would consider Petrino or Rodriguez there is a better candidate out there sitting on the side lines......


Jim Tressel......

I would take Tressel before Petrino and no way in hell would I ever take RR back lets forget that he basically told us all to go f%ck ourselves, the guy has done nothing in a conf not called the Big East. Plain and simple 4-17 vs ranked teams....he is a bum!

 

[JIMKOON]

Can't beleive I am going to feed into this...but for the sake of argument...if you really would consider Petrino or Rodriguez there is a better candidate out there sitting on the side lines......


Jim Tressel......

If, and it's a big if, we were to make a move, I could accept Jim Tressel. But I do not believe Jim Tressel will ever coach again on the college level. I could be wrong, but based on reading some of his thoughts after the mess at Ohio St., and given his christian beliefs, it is my opinion, he will never seek a coaching position again.

Now if we leave all the personal issues out of this discussion, from a purely football mastery standpoint, I would lean towards Petrino over Rodriguez. You just have to look at Petrino's more modern coaching style, player handling, play on the field. Unfortunately for RR, he success since leaving WVU has been dismal at best. He could, with more time, have taken Michigan upwards, but people think our fans are impatient? I've never met a wolverine with even an ounce of patience, you loose once to Ohio State, and your worthless as the tits on a boar hog.

Now to the personal issues, it is tough to get past my objections to RR not because of his coaching ability, but because of how badly he hurt this University, it's team, it's administration, it's coaches, it's students and we, the fans, with what I believe was totally underhanded and deceitful. So bringing him back to WVU would cause me to have to extend a hand to a man I would have trouble trusting ever again. But Petrino, is quite clearly no better a stretch of extending my hand in welcome, unless I'm wearing non-latex surgical gloves and a surgical mask. God only knows where those hands and mouth have been(heehee).

How much of coaching is actually about personal character? We are seeing some troubling issues just in the last year, revolving around temper, language, abuse, social and moral misconduct, from sea to shining sea. Where would the administration stand on such misconduct? Would we allow a coach of any of our teams so abuse a player? A man or woman from within the community? Does it matter more with losing and less with winning? These are hard questions people, and with the current state of diversity within the fan base, this would be like throwing gasoline on a fire for the discussion boards.

 

[bbwvfan]

Jim Tressel had a show cause offense at the Ohio State. I don't think he can coach at the FBS level for at least another season.

As far as WVU's fortune, I agree with most here… there are lots of question marks.

I mentioned it on another thread, the arrogance of the football team over the last three years is disturbing. It is one thing to be confident, but another to lack respect of your opponent. I personally heard from some of the SU coaches that they and their players were disgusted with the air surrounding the WVU players in 2011. They proceeded to go on to whip their butts… SU's only BE win of the season.

Last year, TT players had the same type of post-game comments about the WVU team. And, while I have not been personally told of the events on the trip out to Lubbock, I have read Caridi say the players' conduct on the plane provided him with a good prediction for the game the following day.

I am not one to look for excuses, I look for reasons to explain the results we see.

There is no mistake that this year's team is difficult to figure out. I did not get to see the KU game, so I won't attempt to discuss it.

But, like the Pinstripe Bowl… and, the TT and KSU games of last year… when the WVU team took a punch… they didn't punch back. It is a disturbing trend.

Is this a reflection of their coach? Is the attitude of the team a reflection of the coaching staff not teaching them respect of their opponent? Or is it misguided confidence? Young kids making poor decisions?

The defense that got whipped Saturday afternoon has lost 10 players who started throughout this season to injury.

What did KU have success doing Saturday? Rushing the ball. Where has the injury bug hit this defense the hardest? At LB…

Look at this list of injured players… kids lost for the season…

Linebackers…
Jared Barber
Shaq Petteway
Dozie Ezemma
Doug Rigg
Wes Tonkery

Secondary…
KJ Dillon
Nana Kyerneh

Defensive Line…
Christian Brown

With the lack of depth, the starters on the defensive line have been forced to play more. In the BE, the defensive starters averaged 60-65 plays a game. Through 11 games this year, the players have gone up against an average of 85-90 plays a game.

When you lose, ones spirit can be affected. Not an excuse…

Offensively, the line has struggled… most importantly… the QB has struggled. Injuries have affected QB play, and the one kid who may be the most talented… went out after just his 2nd game.

Dana knows how to coach. He has had offenses put up Playstation numbers at WVU, OSU, UH, and TT. He recruited Ford and Paul. Paul was a late addition to a recruiting class when there was no one behind Geno. Mullen's recruit… Athey… left WVU in spring practice. He is no longer even playing QB.

I am disappointed in this year's results. But, I believe Dana deserves more time to build the program… just as Briles has done at Baylor. Dana has had 2 recruiting classes. He is going after a ton of talent. If he can develop this talent, WVU can become a power in the Big 12.

If he cannot develop the talent, then WVU should part ways and find the man who can….

Sorry for the long post.

 

[JIMKOON]

Jim Tressel had a show cause offense at the Ohio State. I don't think he can coach at the FBS level for at least another season.

As far as WVU's fortune, I agree with most here… there are lots of question marks.

I mentioned it on another thread, the arrogance of the football team over the last three years is disturbing. It is one thing to be confident, but another to lack respect of your opponent. I personally heard from some of the SU coaches that they and their players were disgusted with the air surrounding the WVU players in 2011. They proceeded to go on to whip their butts… SU's only BE win of the season.

Last year, TT players had the same type of post-game comments about the WVU team. And, while I have not been personally told of the events on the trip out to Lubbock, I have read Caridi say the players' conduct on the plane provided him with a good prediction for the game the following day.

I am not one to look for excuses, I look for reasons to explain the results we see.

There is no mistake that this year's team is difficult to figure out. I did not get to see the KU game, so I won't attempt to discuss it.

But, like the Pinstripe Bowl… and, the TT and KSU games of last year… when the WVU team took a punch… they didn't punch back. It is a disturbing trend.

Is this a reflection of their coach? Is the attitude of the team a reflection of the coaching staff not teaching them respect of their opponent? Or is it misguided confidence? Young kids making poor decisions?

The defense that got whipped Saturday afternoon has lost 10 players who started throughout this season to injury.

What did KU have success doing Saturday? Rushing the ball. Where has the injury bug hit this defense the hardest? At LB…

Look at this list of injured players… kids lost for the season…

Linebackers…
Jared Barber
Shaq Petteway
Dozie Ezemma
Doug Rigg
Wes Tonkery

Secondary…
KJ Dillon
Nana Kyerneh

Defensive Line…
Christian Brown

With the lack of depth, the starters on the defensive line have been forced to play more. In the BE, the defensive starters averaged 60-65 plays a game. Through 11 games this year, the players have gone up against an average of 85-90 plays a game.

When you lose, ones spirit can be affected. Not an excuse…

Offensively, the line has struggled… most importantly… the QB has struggled. Injuries have affected QB play, and the one kid who may be the most talented… went out after just his 2nd game.

Dana knows how to coach. He has had offenses put up Playstation numbers at WVU, OSU, UH, and TT. He recruited Ford and Paul. Paul was a late addition to a recruiting class when there was no one behind Geno. Mullen's recruit… Athey… left WVU in spring practice. He is no longer even playing QB.

I am disappointed in this year's results. But, I believe Dana deserves more time to build the program… just as Briles has done at Baylor. Dana has had 2 recruiting classes. He is going after a ton of talent. If he can develop this talent, WVU can become a power in the Big 12.

If he cannot develop the talent, then WVU should part ways and find the man who can….

Sorry for the long post.

I can, and do respect your thoughts. My only concern is our huge investment in this move to the Big 12, and how long are we willing to sit back and wait? If I could see one measurable improvement in Dana Holgerson, just one, that translated to actionable results on the field, then maybe I wouldn't be so harsh in my words, but I have not seen it, for 2 years. You can't compare Briles to Holgerson, I'm sorry, his growth was measurable from the minute he arrived on campus, the players he inherited and then brought to Baylor, grew each season, there was never any regression. Can we say that about Holgerson? I can't find anything but backward steps. He did well with what he inherited, I will give him that, but after the fantastic start last season, the train fell off the track, and I believe it was as soon as the coaching staff's of our opponents adapted to his coaching, and further, an understanding that we had no defense. They adapted, that is the key word, we didn't, we still haven't. I never did like dancing, but we are during a modified version of the Texas 2 Step, except we are not two steps forward, one step back, we are one step forward fives steps back.

Your right tho, there are way more questions than answers. I have no idea what is right. I'm just one fan.