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How I would format an 8-team playoff schedule

4down20

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Now I'll buy this 100%. That is a whole lot different than every regular season game is like a playoff game. Too many examples of "pigs in a poke" to buy that one.

And realistically "those who are still in it" are really only about 15-20 teams...even at the beginning of the year. No way the perennial bottom dwellers in the P5s are ever "in it."

And of those 15-20 teams, 11-16 of them tend to play their way out of it with crappy performances as much as the others play their way into it with good performances..

15-20 is pretty damn good if you ask me. All 130 are given equal opportunity and those 15-20 will change every year as teams go up and down. It doesn't matter what the format is, at the end of the year there will be only 1 national champion out of 130.
 

WizardHawk

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It's broken because there's already been a couple of years where the difference between #4 and #5 is non-existent, more than 4 teams could legitimately win it all and you let a group of guys vote on it. Basically even resumes, and it's not even decided on a football field. If you're the 70th best team in the country in college basketball, that's one thing. However, when you're 11-1 or 12-1. You won your conference, and are one of the best in the country. Give me a break.

By letting in 8, maybe you get a 3 loss team here and there. However, all legitimate contenders get to play it out and decide their own fate.

I guess I don't understand what it hurts.
Can't possibly disagree with this more.

Honestly no one should care whether there is a difference between 4th and 5th place. That's not the point of the 4 team playoff. They went to 4 because the difference between 2nd and 3rd in the old system was closer to being relevant and could still leave out a worthy undefeated team in some odd year with several undefeated teams. Nothing more.

I couldn't care less who gets left out IF we are talking about any team with at least one loss. Period. Entirely the end of discussion for me. Show me a year where an undefeated team with a strong resume gets left out at 5 or lower and I'll care a little. It would be such a rare case that even then it isn't worth changing to 8 just to protect against that.

And before anyone brings up UCF... :L No, mid major undefeated seasons is not the same thing. At all. Even a little bit. Don't bother with that bullshit.
 

Deep Creek

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15-20 is pretty damn good if you ask me. All 130 are given equal opportunity and those 15-20 will change every year as teams go up and down. It doesn't matter what the format is, at the end of the year there will be only 1 national champion out of 130.
Meh, while there will be some change in the 15-20, it will only be 5-6 that go in/out IMHO. Somebody will get on the rise like Washington last year and turn completely to shit for a year like FSU. But, those 15-20 won't change much unless the recruiting rankings change prior to it. JMO.
 

Codaxx

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That is a rather unique idea. I kind of like it. Would the first two rounds be played on campus?

I think I might prefer just having the "top five" get byes for Round 1 in case some conference had a brain fart and a 7-5 team ended up winning it. Make 'em play in the first round and prove their legitimacy.

Every 10 years there will be a terrible conference winner. Just going to happen. I wanted to make the season valuable, so win your conference and you get a bye. With a little tweak this is what the would have looked like:

Week 1: Bama vs UCF, Wisc v Miami, PSU v Auburn
Week 2: OSU vs USC
Clemson vs aub/PSU
OU vs wisc/Miami
Georgia vs Bama/USD

You could reseed after week 1, but I kept it simple
 

4down20

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Meh, while there will be some change in the 15-20, it will only be 5-6 that go in/out IMHO. Somebody will get on the rise like Washington last year and turn completely to shit for a year like FSU. But, those 15-20 won't change much unless the recruiting rankings change prior to it. JMO.

Going to be that way in any format though.
 

WizardHawk

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Now I'll buy this 100%. That is a whole lot different than every regular season game is like a playoff game. Too many examples of "pigs in a poke" to buy that one.

And realistically "those who are still in it" are really only about 15-20 teams...even at the beginning of the year. No way the perennial bottom dwellers in the P5s are ever "in it."

And of those 15-20 teams, 11-16 of them tend to play their way out of it with crappy performances as much as the others play their way into it with good performances..
So you want to play word games.

Every regular season game for every undefeated team with a strong enough SoS to have a shot at the final 4 is part of the playoffs. Lose a game and you still may cling to life because now that we are at 4 we for sure allow in at least one or two (most years) teams with a loss. It's not as perfect as it was in the pure voting era where a loss was nearly an automatic out unless no one stayed undefeated.

It is more diluted than it was, but still remains mostly the same. You must play a decent schedule and you must win out to hold your fate in your own hands.

Those teams you say have no chance really do, but none have ever ran the table that I can recall. There's a reason why the top 10-15 are so heavily favored.

This isn't the NFL with parity and shitty teams having an advantage in drafting. Strong teams can stockpile the best athletes in the country and *surprise* those teams end up winning more often than not.

No change in playoff format can ever undo that reality of collegiate football.
 

Deep Creek

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Going to be that way in any format though.
Yep. Which is exactly why I say there is only a hand full that have truly have a realistic chance. The rest are just scrambling for the crumbs.
 

Deep Creek

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So you want to play word games.

Every regular season game for every undefeated team with a strong enough SoS to have a shot at the final 4 is part of the playoffs. Lose a game and you still may cling to life because now that we are at 4 we for sure allow in at least one or two (most years) teams with a loss. It's not as perfect as it was in the pure voting era where a loss was nearly an automatic out unless no one stayed undefeated.

It is more diluted than it was, but still remains mostly the same. You must play a decent schedule and you must win out to hold your fate in your own hands.

Those teams you say have no chance really do, but none have ever ran the table that I can recall. There's a reason why the top 10-15 are so heavily favored.

This isn't the NFL with parity and shitty teams having an advantage in drafting. Strong teams can stockpile the best athletes in the country and *surprise* those teams end up winning more often than not.

No change in playoff format can ever undo that reality of collegiate football.
No I don't want to play word games. You guys state one thing unequivically like "every" and then start hemhawing and acuse me of playing word games when called out on it.

You are the one playing word games. You put the qualifying words above in after "every" didn't you? I underlined them for you. Those are yours, not mine.

And if you think Kansas, Oregon State, etal have a chance at the beginning of 2018, you live in a fantasy world with which I am not familiar. Now, if Kansas, Oregon State, etal recruit better the next few years and develop a program even remotely close to the 15-20 we are referring to, then I'll agree with you 100%.
 

WizardHawk

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No I don't want to play word games. You guys state one thing unequivically like "every" and then start hemhawing and acuse me of playing word games when called out on it.

You are the one playing word games. You put the qualifying words above in after "every" didn't you? I underlined them for you. Those are yours, not mine.

And if you think Kansas, Oregon State, etal have a chance at the beginning of 2018, you live in a fantasy world with which I am not familiar. Now, if Kansas, Oregon State, etal recruit better the next few years and develop a program even remotely close to the 15-20 we are referring to, then I'll agree with you 100%.
Sorry, I guess we assume most understand the topic enough to know that New mexico vs Tulsa is not a playoff game.

I mean isn't it just logical that it's not a blanket statement including every podunk non relevant game for the purpose of discussing a national title?

I added the clarity because you keep harping on it over and over again across many threads.

Saying the regular season is the playoffs infers we are discussing the teams with an actual shot at being in at least the top 10. It really should go without the need for qualifying. Adding those words really doesn't change the tone and tenor of the point in any way.
 

WizardHawk

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Yep. Which is exactly why I say there is only a hand full that have truly have a realistic chance. The rest are just scrambling for the crumbs.
There is no format where the 130th ranked team in america is ever going to be truly in any race for a title of any kind. So it seems the sticking point to you is more that we aren't talking about 40-50 true contenders and really only have maybe 20 at most. Going to an 8 game playoff, or even 16 won't change any of that. At all. So just what do you want to see happen that CAN impact that?

Again, as long as kids can choose where to go there will always be a small handful of teams that have 80% of the top talent in the sport and those teams will always be favored to win a title. No change in playoff format will ever do a thing to change that.

You say everyone else is fighting for crumbs. In what way? Well over half of the teams in D1 go to a bowl game every year and many of those teams that only fight for crumbs are happy as can be to reach the bowl level they do in that given year. They play for each other. They play for the love of the game. They play for school pride and to represent a community. Some still play for hopes and dreams of making a career out of it even playing for schools way back in the 130 team standings. And oh by the way they are still getting a free education in exchange for playing the sport they love and all of the glory that comes with it.
 

Deep Creek

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Sorry, I guess we assume most understand the topic enough to know that New mexico vs Tulsa is not a playoff game.

I mean isn't it just logical that it's not a blanket statement including every podunk non relevant game for the purpose of discussing a national title?

I added the clarity because you keep harping on it over and over again across many threads.

Saying the regular season is the playoffs infers we are discussing the teams with an actual shot at being in at least the top 10. It really should go without the need for qualifying. Adding those words really doesn't change the tone and tenor of the point in any way.

Like I've said before, I'll agree with you 100% that regular season games for one of the "contending" teams is very important. No doubt about it. Lose and you risk not making the playoffs because you lost control of your own fate. (Undefeated UCF wasn't a contending team so they didn't have control of their playoff fate to begin with.) But, unlike the playoffs, contending teams still have a chance and can keep going even with a loss... depending on what happens around the rest of the nation.

Losing a regular season game in and of itself doesn't totally eliminate contenders from the playoffs so they aren't to that level. The participants this year were four for four with such. Clemson's regular season loss to Syracuse did not eliminate them like their playoff loss to Bama did. Same for OU. Their regular season loss to Iowa State didn't eliminate them like their loss to Georgia. So, even for those contenders, not every regular season game is like a playoff game in that respect. Some of them are allowed to overcome a regular season loss and continue on. Others are not.
 

Deep Creek

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There is no format where the 130th ranked team in america is ever going to be truly in any race for a title of any kind. So it seems the sticking point to you is more that we aren't talking about 40-50 true contenders and really only have maybe 20 at most. Going to an 8 game playoff, or even 16 won't change any of that. At all. So just what do you want to see happen that CAN impact that?

Again, as long as kids can choose where to go there will always be a small handful of teams that have 80% of the top talent in the sport and those teams will always be favored to win a title. No change in playoff format will ever do a thing to change that.

You say everyone else is fighting for crumbs. In what way? Well over half of the teams in D1 go to a bowl game every year and many of those teams that only fight for crumbs are happy as can be to reach the bowl level they do in that given year. They play for each other. They play for the love of the game. They play for school pride and to represent a community. Some still play for hopes and dreams of making a career out of it even playing for schools way back in the 130 team standings. And oh by the way they are still getting a free education in exchange for playing the sport they love and all of the glory that comes with it.
Nothing can impact that. It is reality. You are correct in that kids can choose where they want to got. And, I'm okay with the four team playoff and I'd be okay with eight too...as long as there aren't AQs.

The only thing that will drive a change to a larger number of teams is if both the schools and the media (whatever format that is) figure out there is more money to be made and they are leaving some on the table. That part is JMO.

What I'm not okay with is the all consumed mentality that ANY changes will ALWAYS diminish the sanctity of the ENTIRE meaning of the regular season. Don't buy it at all. It ain't 100% great to start with.

While I'm an old fashioned cuss, I'm not totally a status quo guy. Too many good things have happened in my life because the status quo was questioned and done away with.
 

WizardHawk

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Nothing can impact that. It is reality. You are correct in that kids can choose where they want to got. And, I'm okay with the four team playoff and I'd be okay with eight too...as long as there aren't AQs.
We can agree on the no AQ part. I'd live with the move to 8 without AQ, but it would take away more from the game, FOR ME, than what going from 2-4 already did.

The only thing that will drive a change to a larger number of teams is if both the schools and the media (whatever format that is) figure out there is more money to be made and they are leaving some on the table. That part is JMO.
Vague, but sure. IMO change is coming and far sooner than most think because the current model is collapsing with ESPN going farther and farther down the inevitable road toward bankruptcy and the current cable subscription model starts to slip farther and farther into the past with streaming and on demand items taking over. It will entirely change the landscape of college football as much or more than any other single entity that will be displaced in this shift.

What I'm not okay with is the all consumed mentality that ANY changes will ALWAYS diminish the sanctity of the ENTIRE meaning of the regular season. Don't buy it at all. It ain't 100% great to start with.
You kind of hit on two different things and meld them here. I personally am not opposed to change at all in some meta sense and no one believes the current structure is without issues. The NCAA structure is a joke, the conferences all having their own officials and not having uniformed training or better management of the rules is entirely unacceptable in this day and age, and I could go on and on. There are problems all over that could use change. That's a different thing than talking about just how we come to crown a so-called champion every year.

While I'm an old fashioned cuss, I'm not totally a status quo guy. Too many good things have happened in my life because the status quo was questioned and done away with.
I don't know anyone that wants the playoffs to stay as is because of fear of change. It has more to do with living through the various eras and understanding how we came to this point and having gone through all of those changes vs more of the younger crowd that hasn't ever known the vote era and what the game was like then. Going through the 80's and 90's with UW was more intense than it is now. That's my experience. They weren't in the hunt every year, but the years they were couldn't have had more drama game to game even against weaker opponents. Style mattered. Running up scores were an element for many teams, but you had to do more than just get by and win a game against lessor opponents and yet had to come out unscathed to reach that goal.

UW has had exactly one undefeated season in the modern era and that was the '91 championship team. It's not like I had a silver spoon and followed a perennial champion like maybe some oklahoma fans or blue bloods like ohio state and usc. We were always that dangerous team that got close and couldn't quite reach the top. It was losses to unexpected teams most years and that deflation was the norm, not the exception. And I still wouldn't have changed it for this era where my team has a MUCH better chance of reaching it. It is more hollow now. Getting into the playoffs was big last year, but meant little in the long run compared to that '91 season.
 

Kaplony

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Now I'll buy this 100%. That is a whole lot different than every regular season game is like a playoff game. Too many examples of "pigs in a poke" to buy that one.

And realistically "those who are still in it" are really only about 15-20 teams...even at the beginning of the year. No way the perennial bottom dwellers in the P5s are ever "in it."

And of those 15-20 teams, 11-16 of them tend to play their way out of it with crappy performances as much as the others play their way into it with good performances..

How does going to an 8 team playoff change that though? It's still going to be the same 15-20 teams competing for eight spots, just like they compete for four.
 

Deep Creek

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How does going to an 8 team playoff change that though? It's still going to be the same 15-20 teams competing for eight spots, just like they compete for four.
It won't. Not in the least.

That part was more for the "EVERY regular season game matters" crap that people like to spew. Every regular season game may matter for those 15-20 teams (but I'd argue that too as I did with my UTEP/OU game) but not for all every game all 130 FBS teams play.
 

Deep Creek

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Vague, but sure. IMO change is coming and far sooner than most think because the current model is collapsing with ESPN going farther and farther down the inevitable road toward bankruptcy and the current cable subscription model starts to slip farther and farther into the past with streaming and on demand items taking over. It will entirely change the landscape of college football as much or more than any other single entity that will be displaced in this shift.
Good point. You may be right. Change may happen sooner than I think because of that. In retrospect, it is looking like ESPN overpaid for many things.

I don't see the schools wanting to change unless they can be convinced it will be financially better. But if the ESPN ship sinks, they may be getting less. That could cause change in another direction.
 

WNY_FOOTBALL_DUDE

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For the 2016 season, I will be using Anderson & Hester's SOS measurements and top 25 wins.

2016

Alabama - In. Undefeated. Power Conference champion. 33rd best schedule. 4 wins against top 25 rated teams.

Ohio State - In. 11-1 on the season. Best SOS in the country and 4-1 against top 25 rated teams. 3 of those wins were against top 10 rated teams: Oklahoma #9, #7 Wisconsin, and #6 Michigan.

Clemson - In. 12-1 on the season. Power Conference champion. 30th best SOS in the country. 3-0 against top 25 rated teams. Pitt was rated 27th.

Despite what SOME people claim, Bama, Ohio State, and Clemson were locks for the top 3 spots. Here comes the tricky part.

Washington - 12-1 on the season. Power Conference champion. 50th best SOS in the country. Against top 25 teams, they were 2-1. Colorado at #10 was their best victory.

Penn State - 11-2 on the season. Power conference champion. 10th best SOS in the country. 2-1 against 10 teams rated teams. They beat #2 Ohio State and #7 Wisconsin.

Why shouldn't BOTH get into the playoffs? Penn State had those two losses, but on the other hand, their SOS was out of this world and beat Ohio State. Washington had a slightly above average SOS, and played lesser quality opponents than Penn State. Lets pretend that Penn State played Washington's OCC competition. Do you really think Penn State would have missed the playoffs? I don't think so.

I am not knocking the Huskies here. They didn't know that Rutgers would be a bad opponent. My ONLY point here is that it wasn't clear distinction at all. Penn State played the superior schedule, Washington had one less loss.

It would be BETTER if both Penn State and Washington got a shot at the National Championship. This would acknowledge the diverse nature, both in SOS terms and kinds of opponents. I will agree that anything past 8 teams (6% range) devalues the regular season, especially CC status. But 8 teams gives all the power conference champions the chance to get in, and allows in a couple of wild cards. I will also agree that automatic playoff spots for CC is wrong.
 

Kaplony

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For the 2016 season, I will be using Anderson & Hester's SOS measurements and top 25 wins.

2016

Alabama - In. Undefeated. Power Conference champion. 33rd best schedule. 4 wins against top 25 rated teams.

Ohio State - In. 11-1 on the season. Best SOS in the country and 4-1 against top 25 rated teams. 3 of those wins were against top 10 rated teams: Oklahoma #9, #7 Wisconsin, and #6 Michigan.

Clemson - In. 12-1 on the season. Power Conference champion. 30th best SOS in the country. 3-0 against top 25 rated teams. Pitt was rated 27th.

Despite what SOME people claim, Bama, Ohio State, and Clemson were locks for the top 3 spots. Here comes the tricky part.

Washington - 12-1 on the season. Power Conference champion. 50th best SOS in the country. Against top 25 teams, they were 2-1. Colorado at #10 was their best victory.

Penn State - 11-2 on the season. Power conference champion. 10th best SOS in the country. 2-1 against 10 teams rated teams. They beat #2 Ohio State and #7 Wisconsin.

Why shouldn't BOTH get into the playoffs? Penn State had those two losses, but on the other hand, their SOS was out of this world and beat Ohio State. Washington had a slightly above average SOS, and played lesser quality opponents than Penn State. Lets pretend that Penn State played Washington's OCC competition. Do you really think Penn State would have missed the playoffs? I don't think so.

I am not knocking the Huskies here. They didn't know that Rutgers would be a bad opponent. My ONLY point here is that it wasn't clear distinction at all. Penn State played the superior schedule, Washington had one less loss.

It would be BETTER if both Penn State and Washington got a shot at the National Championship. This would acknowledge the diverse nature, both in SOS terms and kinds of opponents. I will agree that anything past 8 teams (6% range) devalues the regular season, especially CC status. But 8 teams gives all the power conference champions the chance to get in, and allows in a couple of wild cards. I will also agree that automatic playoff spots for CC is wrong.

Penn State had a shot at the National Championship in 2016. They were eliminated from contention when they lost to Michigan on Sept 24th. Because of that second loss they were never in playoff contention and only moved to 5th in the final poll. Washington was never lower than 6th in any of the previous polls and was never ranked behind Penn State.
 

PhilSimms11

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What if the 8-team CFP was done like the WNBA playoffs? I'm not necessarily advocating it, but it's a thought.

1st round
(5)Ohio St (11-2) vs (8)USC (11-2)
(6)Wisconsin (12-1) vs (7)Auburn (10-3)
---
2nd round
(3)Georgia (12-1) vs (6)Wisconsin (13-1)
(4)Alabama (11-1) vs (5)Ohio St (12-2)
---
semifinals
(1)Clemson (12-1) vs (4)Alabama (12-1)
(2)Oklahoma (12-1) vs (3)Georgia (13-1)
---
Championship
(3)Georgia (14-1) vs (4)Alabama (13-1)
 
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