Historic defensive ratings...

[Broncos6482]

Stewart is a rocket but one of the worst tacklers Ive ever seen in a pro uniform. It appears that he has either fixed the tackling issue or his surrounding talent is masking it. He got cut from the Rams and Ravens and neither had good pass Ds at the time.

Talib is a great corner who struggles mightily with speed. A quick WR could run a deep slant on him all day. There just aren't many great speed WRs in the game right now.

Well Stewart didn't have tackling issues this year, so I'd say he's probably corrected it.

Good point about Talib, TY Hilton just destroyed him in the playoffs last season.

 

[Clayton]

Well Stewart didn't have tackling issues this year, so I'd say he's probably corrected it.

Good point about Talib, TY Hilton just destroyed him in the playoffs last season.

I think there is a good chance we are all underrating Von Miller when talking about the surrounding pieces. I saw a stat on Von Miller...I think it was 2 years ago where the Denver defense with Von Miller playing held QBs to a QB rating similar to Mark Sanchez but when Von Miller wasn't playing then it was a QB rating similar to Brady or Rodgers. I dont know if that is still the case but Von Miller makes the defense what it is for sure.

 

[theknight307]

I think there is a good chance we are all underrating Von Miller when talking about the surrounding pieces. I saw a stat on Von Miller...I think it was 2 years ago where the Denver defense with Von Miller playing held QBs to a QB rating similar to Mark Sanchez but when Von Miller wasn't playing then it was a QB rating similar to Brady or Rodgers. I dont know if that is still the case but Von Miller makes the defense what it is for sure.

The key this year Imo was the Broncos going to the 3-4 under philips. Von Miller coming out of college was a projected 3-4 olb. Under Fox and JDR, they played mainly a 4-3. They would kick him down as an end on "passing downs." It frustrated me because he was easily accounted for. The opposing knew he was rushing. In the 3-4 the offense really could not say for sure even if he was showing it. Not to mention Demarcus Ware being a natural 3-4 olb. His best production was under philips in that role.

Fox and JDR badly misused the talent on the defense imo.

Btw, not saying it would have made all that much of a difference, but the Broncos in that SB were missing a lot of pieces. Mainly Von Miller, Derek Wolfe, and Chris Harris on defense. Plus their starting safety along with Clady (their best pass blocker ) and their starting center.

Just saying.

 

[Shanemansj13]

I don't think coaches really had much of a clue how to attack the 46 either back then. Put today's OC's back in 85 and I'd be shocked if we remember the '85 Bears as the best defense on an offhand basis.

Yep, offenses are much deeper nowadays and just better, especially with the spread offense. It is much more impressive to shutdown an explosive offense now then back then. They let the players play a lot more back then, they have to many bullshit penalties nowadays also.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

The key this year Imo was the Broncos going to the 3-4 under philips.

Well more going with that one gap penetration 3-4 where you don't need the monster nose tackle plugging to make it work, but dead on. I don't know if he has a shot in heck at the hall of fame, but his (and his fathers') defense is amazing.

 

[cdumler7]

Well more going with that one gap penetration 3-4 where you don't need the monster nose tackle plugging to make it work, but dead on. I don't know if he has a shot in heck at the hall of fame, but his (and his fathers') defense is amazing.

The 1-gap definitely fit our talent much more. Sly Williams, Wolfe, and Jackson all were known as penetrating guys more so than 2-gap occupy space guys that Del Rio and Fox wanted them to be. Us Bronco fans actually talked about it quite a bit that we thought what Phillips was bringing fit our players so much more. the only ones I did worry about were the ILB's in Marshall and Trevathan as they were undersized for the position but they did great as their speed countered their lack of size.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

The 1-gap definitely fit our talent much more. Sly Williams, Wolfe, and Jackson all were known as penetrating guys more so than 2-gap occupy space guys that Del Rio and Fox wanted them to be. Us Bronco fans actually talked about it quite a bit that we thought what Phillips was bringing fit our players so much more. the only ones I did worry about were the ILB's in Marshall and Trevathan as they were undersized for the position but they did great as their speed countered their lack of size.

Yeah, I remember all camp and pre-season the big question on local radio (live near Denver) was filling the nose tackle spot and how that isn't on the roster, and i kept thinking of how Jay Ratliff is the exact opposite of a 2 gap nose tackle but fit perfectly with what Phillips was wanting to do.

 

[cdumler7]

Yeah, I remember all camp and pre-season the big question on local radio (live near Denver) was filling the nose tackle spot and how that isn't on the roster, and i kept thinking of how Jay Ratliff is the exact opposite of a 2 gap nose tackle but fit perfectly with what Phillips was wanting to do.

Sly worried me just a bit because he has been known to struggle with motivation but the more I heard that a lot of the leaders of the team were calling him all off season to make sure he was on track the more I thought we would see a new Sly this year.

 

[Ricky Roma]

This is a little disingenuous. I'll give you the point about the Steelers, but why do you think Brady's line was a sieve? Did that just happen out of nowhere? That line was perfectly fine against the Chiefs the week before, then they come to Denver and get steamrolled. Denver's defense made that line a sieve, you have to give them credit for that.

As for the Panthers, you might not buy their offense, but they were the highest scoring team in the NFL this season. They averaged over 31 points per game in the regular season, and coming into the Super Bowl they averaged 40 points per game in their 2 playoff games, and that was against the 2nd and 5th ranked defenses. And Denver absolutely shut them down.

That means in 3 playoff games, Denver's defense shut down two Hall of Fame quarterbacks and the league MVP and highest scoring offense. And they did that with an offense that was average at best (and that's being pretty generous, really). It's pretty clear why they are generating discussion of being an all time great defense.

Brady's line had been a rotating fivesome I believe all year, and it started to catch up with them at the end of the season. The Chiefs were also limited with injuries to Justin Houston.

I know the Panthers were the league leaders in points scored, but again....to me that's a one year thing that just ran its course. They went 15-1.....now there have only been maybe 5 or so teams in the history that went 15-1? That, in a nutshell, is why I'm not buying into them....they are nowhere near that good. They padded up stats against their own division, and the two worst divisions in football in the NFC East and the AFC South. When teams start turning it over left and right, like Seattle and Ariz. did, it's just a snowball effect. Again....after Greg Olsen, their best offensive player is Ted Ginn.

To me....when people start saying 'all time' anything...I need to these things over a measure of years. Nobody was calling this defense 'all time' anything until the Panther game...and I just can't point to Carolina as some kind of measuring stick. I don't even know if it's the best defense in today's game. Seattle can certainly make a claim.

 

[cdumler7]

Brady's line had been a rotating fivesome I believe all year, and it started to catch up with them at the end of the season. The Chiefs were also limited with injuries to Justin Houston.

I know the Panthers were the league leaders in points scored, but again....to me that's a one year thing that just ran its course. They went 15-1.....now there have only been maybe 5 or so teams in the history that went 15-1? That, in a nutshell, is why I'm not buying into them....they are nowhere near that good. They padded up stats against their own division, and the two worst divisions in football in the NFC East and the AFC South. When teams start turning it over left and right, like Seattle and Ariz. did, it's just a snowball effect. Again....after Greg Olsen, their best offensive player is Ted Ginn.

To me....when people start saying 'all time' anything...I need to these things over a measure of years. Nobody was calling this defense 'all time' anything until the Panther game...and I just can't point to Carolina as some kind of measuring stick. I don't even know if it's the best defense in today's game. Seattle can certainly make a claim.

Actually plenty were calling them all-time before this game.

This article is from back in November...Broncos defense could be one of best ever

The stats have been there all year comparing them to some of the all-time great defenses and throughout the season they have matched up well.

 

[Ricky Roma]

Actually plenty were calling them all-time before this game.

This article is from back in November...Broncos defense could be one of best ever

The stats have been there all year comparing them to some of the all-time great defenses and throughout the season they have matched up well.

That's an interesting column. but a few things. That isn't 'plenty' that is just one example. Secondly, I think Denver's defense was just the first that showed man coverage on some incredibly slow outside players was the way to kill GB offensively. The Packers struggled for the rest of the year against pretty much everyone. Granted...nobody did it better than Denver this year, but the initial shock also plays a part as well.

I'm not taking anything away from what Denver did this year....I think this is just more 'twitter' mentality, as in gotta-say-it-first...and who cares how true it is. It sells, so I'm sure I'll hear more of it. I want to see it over a course of a few years.

 

[cdumler7]

That's an interesting column. but a few things. That isn't 'plenty' that is just one example. Secondly, I think Denver's defense was just the first that showed man coverage on some incredibly slow outside players was the way to kill GB offensively. The Packers struggled for the rest of the year against pretty much everyone. Granted...nobody did it better than Denver this year, but the initial shock also plays a part as well.

I'm not taking anything away from what Denver did this year....I think this is just more 'twitter' mentality, as in gotta-say-it-first...and who cares how true it is. It sells, so I'm sure I'll hear more of it. I want to see it over a course of a few years.

Ok but those stats they showed were more than just the Packers game. They were at the time I think 7 of the 16 regular season games combined so not like they just did it one week and somebody wrote a column about that one week.

Fantasy football: Denver's D/ST on historic pace

Broncos defense is posting historic numbers

Elevated Stats: Broncos defense 'has playmakers at every level'

After Further Review: Broncos' D on pace with '85 Bears and here's why

I mean I can find more if you want. This wasn't just on a whim that people started putting them in this group. Some were suggesting for half the season that the Broncos were on historic pace. They fell off just a bit in the 2nd half with injuries piling up on the defensive side of the ball which is why I would put others ahead of them but when fully healthy this defense easily was on pace to be mentioned with even yes the great 85' Bears.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Justin Houston wasn't healthy, but neither was Phillip Gaines on defense; Ron Parker has pretty basic limitations as a nickel corner against a more talented WR who can lineup in the slot like Edelman. The Broncos have Chris Harris for comparison.

For the Chiefs to do as well as they did on defense despite injuries to a lot of key personnel is really pretty impressive. Just ran out of gas against Brady. Maybe if this, this, this and that went just right, there's a different discussion. That's not what happened though. Denver's D could takeover a game against the NE's of the world- there's a difference.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

I think there is a good chance we are all underrating Von Miller when talking about the surrounding pieces. I saw a stat on Von Miller...I think it was 2 years ago where the Denver defense with Von Miller playing held QBs to a QB rating similar to Mark Sanchez but when Von Miller wasn't playing then it was a QB rating similar to Brady or Rodgers. I dont know if that is still the case but Von Miller makes the defense what it is for sure.

Scary... And Denver will make him the highest paid defensive player in NFL history, and if he becomes a bust with it people will say they should have seen it coming.

 

[Ricky Roma]

Ok but those stats they showed were more than just the Packers game. They were at the time I think 7 of the 16 regular season games combined so not like they just did it one week and somebody wrote a column about that one week.

Fantasy football: Denver's D/ST on historic pace

Broncos defense is posting historic numbers

Elevated Stats: Broncos defense 'has playmakers at every level'

After Further Review: Broncos' D on pace with '85 Bears and here's why

I mean I can find more if you want. This wasn't just on a whim that people started putting them in this group. Some were suggesting for half the season that the Broncos were on historic pace. They fell off just a bit in the 2nd half with injuries piling up on the defensive side of the ball which is why I would put others ahead of them but when fully healthy this defense easily was on pace to be mentioned with even yes the great 85' Bears.

I admit...that is better. As I said however, I'll need to see it over a few years. I mean....people say '85 Bears' but they were a dominant bunch for 4-5 years. One year things just mean so little to me....which is why I can't even begin contemplating say....1977 Falcons, who still own the record for fewest points allowed in a season.

 

[Money]

I admit...that is better. As I said however, I'll need to see it over a few years. I mean....people say '85 Bears' but they were a dominant bunch for 4-5 years. One year things just mean so little to me....which is why I can't even begin contemplating say....1977 Falcons, who still own the record for fewest points allowed in a season.

They own the record for a 14-game season. Packers own it for a 13-game season. Ravens own it for a 16-game season.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

Ok but those stats they showed were more than just the Packers game. They were at the time I think 7 of the 16 regular season games combined so not like they just did it one week and somebody wrote a column about that one week.

Fantasy football: Denver's D/ST on historic pace

Broncos defense is posting historic numbers

Elevated Stats: Broncos defense 'has playmakers at every level'

After Further Review: Broncos' D on pace with '85 Bears and here's why

I mean I can find more if you want. This wasn't just on a whim that people started putting them in this group. Some were suggesting for half the season that the Broncos were on historic pace. They fell off just a bit in the 2nd half with injuries piling up on the defensive side of the ball which is why I would put others ahead of them but when fully healthy this defense easily was on pace to be mentioned with even yes the great 85' Bears.

No matter how you slice it though you can't just look at one part of the season... You gotta look at the entire season every time ... It's like Seattle last year, we were beat up like crazy going into the Super-Bowl, but nothing we could do about it... stats are what they are... and I don't think anyone felt sorry for us... :]

 

[theknight307]

Brady's line had been a rotating fivesome I believe all year, and it started to catch up with them at the end of the season. The Chiefs were also limited with injuries to Justin Houston.

I know the Panthers were the league leaders in points scored, but again....to me that's a one year thing that just ran its course. They went 15-1.....now there have only been maybe 5 or so teams in the history that went 15-1? That, in a nutshell, is why I'm not buying into them....they are nowhere near that good. They padded up stats against their own division, and the two worst divisions in football in the NFC East and the AFC South. When teams start turning it over left and right, like Seattle and Ariz. did, it's just a snowball effect. Again....after Greg Olsen, their best offensive player is Ted Ginn.

To me....when people start saying 'all time' anything...I need to these things over a measure of years. Nobody was calling this defense 'all time' anything until the Panther game...and I just can't point to Carolina as some kind of measuring stick. I don't even know if it's the best defense in today's game. Seattle can certainly make a claim.

Yes, the Pats OL was in a shambles. True. It was all year. The fact still remains that with Edelman, Amendola and Gronk they had not lost dating back to 2014.

Brady, with all of them in the line up was his same old self. Also, we need to consider what the Panthers did to the seahawks and cardinals defenses. Both of which were not exactly slapdick defenses. Both of them were pretty dynamic.

Other thing to consider is just how pathetic the Broncos offense had been. I mean it was worse than the Dilfer led ravens or bucs led by Brad Johnson. Yes, that bad.

They did not accumulate 200 yards total offense. Sheesh.

I am not saying they were the most dominant by the sheer numbers, but they need to be in the discussion just by the quality of QBs faced along with the anemic offense the Broncos displayed all year.

 

[cdumler7]

No matter how you slice it though you can't just look at one part of the season... You gotta look at the entire season every time ... It's like Seattle last year, we were beat up like crazy going into the Super-Bowl, but nothing we could do about it... stats are what they are... and I don't think anyone felt sorry for us... :]

Not disagreeing with you at all. Roma had just said that nobody before the Super Bowl was talking about the Broncos among the historic defenses and was just pointing to plenty of articles throughout the season that say otherwise. I am not one that considers them the best defense in league history. I do think that 3-4 game run when yes they had some injuries and gave up a few more points hurt that legacy being fact. But I still do think they will be mentioned when talking about historic defenses say 20 years down the road.

 

[cdumler7]

I admit...that is better. As I said however, I'll need to see it over a few years. I mean....people say '85 Bears' but they were a dominant bunch for 4-5 years. One year things just mean so little to me....which is why I can't even begin contemplating say....1977 Falcons, who still own the record for fewest points allowed in a season.

I understand wanting to see it more. Bronco fans though have been hearing this all year. Before the Packers game analyst kept saying "well this defense looks incredible but not like they have played any good QB's yet." After the Packers game it was "Well they haven't played Tom Brady yet." After Brady it was "Well they can't get it done in the playoffs." So of course makes sense for it to be "Well glad they did it one year but need to see it over the long haul." Guess we will just have to wait and see this next season. I will say players have said in the past that when installing a new system it takes at least a year before everybody feels comfortable in the system. So this will be year 2...Could they actually be better?