here is a break down of the draft

[Caliskinsfan]

He's not as handicapped in coverage as others, but there's a reason why he fell. And I believe that was one reason why he did. I'd just as soon keep trying to develop Philip Thomas and see what others like Akeem Davis has to offer. According to Chris Russell (for whatever his opinion is worth), Davis has got a lot of potential as a FS.

I liked his balling out on STs as well. But it doesn't matter, he was chosen by the Gnats by trading up before we even had to make a decision on him.

Safety class wasn't really the strongest in this draft and we do have some players who could develop.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

Excerpt

We won’t know for several years whether Scot McCloughan’s first draft with the Redskins was a success. But we already know this: he came up with a plan, he told us what the plan was, and he followed through on that plan.

Does this matter? Well, clearly not as much as winning games. But it seems as though giving your fans an accurate idea of your intentions can at least help give you the benefit of the doubt — especially if your plan might take several years to come together. Needless to say, there have been many times over the past decade when that didn’t happen.

Let’s review again a few of Vinny Cerrato’s most memorable moments as GM. (Low bar, I know.) On July 20, 2008, Cerrato told reporters in texts, phone calls and at a press conference that the team was not pursuing Jason Taylor. A few hours later, the Redskins traded for Jason Taylor.

In March of 2009, Cerrato asserted that there was no truth to the rumor that the Redskins were pursuing Jay Cutler. Five years later, he admitted that was hooey, and that the team was “definitely interested” in acquiring Cutler.

Now, these are very specific cases of actively being misleading. But the cloaks and daggers continued into the Shanahan regime. “What I’m trying to do is be as honest as I can,” Shanahan said during one of his final press conferences. “And I don’t normally do that, because I don’t really think it’s anybody’s business.”

The inner workings of the Xerox corporation are perhaps not your business, but when you are investing far too much of your passion and money into following a sports team, it sort of is your business what that team plans to do. At every level of sports, coaches and executives seem to delight in treating their plans like nuclear-level secrets, whose release would endanger the future of free world. McCloughan has managed to be at least a little enlightening about his plans, without Redskins Park bursting into flames. In fact, he pretty much explained what he would do this offseason. Examples:

 

[Caliskinsfan]

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Excerpt

We won’t know for several years whether Scot McCloughan’s first draft with the Redskins was a success. But we already know this: he came up with a plan, he told us what the plan was, and he followed through on that plan.

Does this matter? Well, clearly not as much as winning games. But it seems as though giving your fans an accurate idea of your intentions can at least help give you the benefit of the doubt — especially if your plan might take several years to come together. Needless to say, there have been many times over the past decade when that didn’t happen.

Let’s review again a few of Vinny Cerrato’s most memorable moments as GM. (Low bar, I know.) On July 20, 2008, Cerrato told reporters in texts, phone calls and at a press conference that the team was not pursuing Jason Taylor. A few hours later, the Redskins traded for Jason Taylor.

In March of 2009, Cerrato asserted that there was no truth to the rumor that the Redskins were pursuing Jay Cutler. Five years later, he admitted that was hooey, and that the team was “definitely interested” in acquiring Cutler.

Now, these are very specific cases of actively being misleading. But the cloaks and daggers continued into the Shanahan regime. “What I’m trying to do is be as honest as I can,” Shanahan said during one of his final press conferences. “And I don’t normally do that, because I don’t really think it’s anybody’s business.”

The inner workings of the Xerox corporation are perhaps not your business, but when you are investing far too much of your passion and money into following a sports team, it sort of is your business what that team plans to do. At every level of sports, coaches and executives seem to delight in treating their plans like nuclear-level secrets, whose release would endanger the future of free world. McCloughan has managed to be at least a little enlightening about his plans, without Redskins Park bursting into flames. In fact, he pretty much explained what he would do this offseason. Examples:

Wait are you saying it's the GM's duty to reveal his plan publicly? So should SM have published his draft board too? Should the GM come out identify by name which players they are looking to replace because the fans deserve such information?

I'm no Vinny fan but criticizing him for not revealing that a a big trade involving a specific player is in the works is common place, every GM does it. And there's a reason for that.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

Wait are you saying it's the GM's duty to reveal his plan publicly? So should SM have published his draft board too? Should the GM come out identify by name which players they are looking to replace because the fans deserve such information?

I'm no Vinny fan but criticizing him for not revealing that a a big trade involving a specific player is in the works is common place, every GM does it. And there's a reason for that.

Absolutely not and neither does the article.

But there is much that can be revealed in the thinking and evaluation process that doesn't give 'competitive advantage' away. That Scot chose to share some things with a fan base so use to being screwed over in the truth dept is telling of who the man is as a person, IMO. His body language, obvious football acumen and excitement at that presser were a joy to see.

There is a reason we joke about CSI tin foil hats on this board after all.

Personally, this franchise needs to prove with action that they are not full of shit with what they say they are going to do. Credibility leads to trust. Trust leads to faith and belief in what is being said and done. I think this diehard loyal fan base deserves that.

In my mind this is less about revealing info about the draft (tho that was most definitely refreshing-and I think will benefit Scot from the perspective of trust and credibility) and more about saying what you mean and doing what you say.

For ex, Instead of rolling my eyes at hearing that there will be 'competition at every level', I'm actually beginning to buy into the fact that maybe this will be true. Maybe the best player will be the one that actually is on the field come Sunday. Maybe it will be about excellent football and who competes and earns the right.

Maybe might be 'definitely' sooner than I thought...

 

[skinsdad62]

look you cant let everyone know your secrets and strategy and that is a given . but saying what you mean and meaning what you say is important

 

[Caliskinsfan]

 

[Caliskinsfan]

This stat info from last year in an article by Jimmy Kempski, an Eagles beat writer, emphasizes the reality of drafting an all pro OLman

In 2014, there were 30 offensive linemen who received at least one All-Pro vote. The following is a list of those players, and where they were drafted:

Player Position Round Overall
Joe Thomas, Browns OT 1 3
Trent Williams, Redskins OT 1 4
Lane Johnson OT 1 4
Tyron Smith, Cowboys OT 1 9
Ryan Clady, Broncos OT 1 12
Zack Martin, Cowboys OG 1 16
Mike Iupati, Cardinals OG 1 17
Maurkice Pouncey, Steelers C 1 18
Kyle Long, Bears OG 1 20
Bryan Bulaga, Packers OT 1 23
James Carpenter, Seahawks OG 1 25
Joe Staley, 49ers OT 1 28
Nick Mangold, Jets C 1 29
Travis Frederick, Cowboys C 1 31
Joel Bitonio, Browns OG 2 35
Andrew Whitworth, Bengals OT 2 55
Rodney Hudson, Chiefs C 2 55
Sebastian Vollmer, Patriots OT 2 58
Ryan Kalil, Panthers C 2 59
Jared Veldheer, Cardinals OT 3 69
Louis Vasquez, Broncos OG 3 78
Evan Mathis, Eagles OG 3 79
Marshal Yanda, Ravens OG 3 86
Jahri Evans, Saints OG 4 108
Josh Sitton, Packers OG 4 135
Corey Linsley, Packers C 5 161
Ricky Wagner, Ravens OT 5 168
Jason Kelce, Eagles C 6 191
Jason Peters, Eagles OT N/A Undrafted
Dan Connolly, Patriots OG N/A Undrafted
The final tally:

• 14 players were drafted in the first round.

• 5 players were drafted in the second round.

• 4 players were drafted in the third round.

• 2 players were drafted in the fourth round.

• 2 players were drafted in the fifth round.

• 1 player was drafted in the sixth round.

• 0 players were drafted in the seventh round.

• 2 players were undrafted free agents.

What does that all mean?

It means that just because you can get extremely lucky and find a great offensive lineman off the street like the Bills did with Peters,it doesn't mean it's likely.

Now, I already know what the next rebuttal will be, which will go something like, "But the media votes for those guys, and they are going to be biased toward first-round picks because they have no idea how to evaluate line play." OK, maybe. But if you're going to make that argument, please come armed with the names of a few undrafted free agent offensive linemen not included above that are better than the first-round picks listed.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I saw that article and this quote jumped out at me right away:


We were lucky enough, like I said, in free agency to do some stuff on the defensive side, and from my standpoint, going into this thing, I knew we needed some help up front on the offensive side. It was too good of a bang for the buck not to get Brandon there.”


That tells me that I was wrong all along, SM was not drafting strictly BPA. He clearly had his board set up with need in mind. If he was drafting for the Dallas Cowboys I seriously doubt he had Scherff at #3.

As for Cali's list of All Pros that's great point. But again there were only 3 taken with a top 5 pick and of course they all played left tackle and that was my point all along.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

I saw that article and this quote jumped out at me right away:


We were lucky enough, like I said, in free agency to do some stuff on the defensive side, and from my standpoint, going into this thing, I knew we needed some help up front on the offensive side. It was too good of a bang for the buck not to get Brandon there.”


That tells me that I was wrong all along, SM was not drafting strictly BPA. He clearly had his board set up with need in mind. If he was drafting for the Dallas Cowboys I seriously doubt he had Scherff at #3.

As for Cali's list of All Pros that's great point. But again there were only 3 taken with a top 5 pick and of course they all played left tackle and that was my point all along.

I don't understand how you conclude BPA was not used. The board was Fowler, Amari, Scherff in that order with Leonard 3b.

If two players are rated the same or very close together in talent, you lean in favor of the the player who fits your teams need most. That does not negate BPA strategy at all.

 

[redskinsfan]

I don't understand how you conclude BPA was not used. The board was Fowler, Amari, Scherff in that order with Leonard 3b.

If two players are rated the same or very close together in talent, you lean in favor of the the player who fits your teams need most. That does not negate BPA strategy at all.

GMs often say they draft the BPA, but they never really define the specific contours of that term. In the first three rounds, you have to factor in need which, in some cases, can vary depending on the circumstances. That's because the object of your top selections is to make an impact. And you can't make an impact if you're sitting second or deeper on a depth chart. The only teams that can really draft BPA are the elite teams in the league. One example was when Green Bay drafted Aaron Rodgers to play behind Brett Favre. They were already a Superbowl contender with Favre and, at face value, layering talent at the QB position didn't make much sense. But the Packers, as we all found out, had a long term plan in grooming Favre's successor. It took three years to transform Rodgers from a rookie QB with flawed mechanics to the polished passer he has now become. But that is the exception. When drafting within the first 100 picks, need plays a role. How much of one will vary with your particular circumstances.

 

[skinsdad62]

i will go this route . i said before the draft that every GM says "he goes with the BPA" no one ever says "i will reach for a need " the truth is GMs use a combination of both philosophies

they ID their teams needs prioritize them and then if you can get value by drafting a need at a certain position you take the need , if you cannot you go to the next need or do one of 2 things , trade out or draft the BPA regardless of position

some on this board , and in the press fell for the cliche and wouldnt be talked out of it because they had pre determined a course of action and were not receptive to any other possible view

it all comes down to , do you trust SM or not . some say they do but there textual actions say otherwise because the players they wanted didnt get picked

so lets put this dog to bed , SM took the BPA at a position of need . he passed on williams most likely because we had addressed the d/line and he need resources on the O/line . he would have prefered to trade down and still get scherff but the deal just wasnt there . perhaps its there if fowler is there and perhaps he picks fowler over scherff if he is there and pass rusher may have been a bigger need

his actions over his career indicate he wants to build up the LOS on both sides of the ball and control that first then bring in the skill positions

see what the LOS does this year . if it performs he will move on adding a piece here and there as needed

 

[redskinsfan]

i will go this route . i said before the draft that every GM says "he goes with the BPA" no one ever says "i will reach for a need " the truth is GMs use a combination of both philosophies

they ID their teams needs prioritize them and then if you can get value by drafting a need at a certain position you take the need , if you cannot you go to the next need or do one of 2 things , trade out or draft the BPA regardless of position

some on this board , and in the press fell for the cliche and wouldnt be talked out of it because they had pre determined a course of action and were not receptive to any other possible view

it all comes down to , do you trust SM or not . some say they do but there textual actions say otherwise because the players they wanted didnt get picked

so lets put this dog to bed , SM took the BPA at a position of need . he passed on williams most likely because we had addressed the d/line and he need resources on the O/line . he would have prefered to trade down and still get scherff but the deal just wasnt there . perhaps its there if fowler is there and perhaps he picks fowler over scherff if he is there and pass rusher may have been a bigger need

his actions over his career indicate he wants to build up the LOS on both sides of the ball and control that first then bring in the skill positions

see what the LOS does this year . if it performs he will move on adding a piece here and there as needed

I agree with this. RT was a screaming need. While I don't think he got optimal value in picking Scherff at number five, I can understand why he did it. That's because, in the bigger picture, he was worth giving up some value on that pick. I was hoping we could trade back with Atlanta, who held the seventh overall pick to get a second or third rounder. But you never know whether the Giants would've traded up to Chicago's pick (#7) and picked Scherff. By playing it safe and taking Scherff at five, he eliminated any risk of that happening. And with Callahan coaching up Scherff, the sky's the limit.

Now let's hope Kouandjio and our other youngsters like Spencer Long pan out.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

GMs often say they draft the BPA, but they never really define the specific contours of that term. In the first three rounds, you have to factor in need which, in some cases, can vary depending on the circumstances. That's because the object of your top selections is to make an impact. And you can't make an impact if you're sitting second or deeper on a depth chart. The only teams that can really draft BPA are the elite teams in the league. One example was when Green Bay drafted Aaron Rodgers to play behind Brett Favre. They were already a Superbowl contender with Favre and, at face value, layering talent at the QB position didn't make much sense. But the Packers, as we all found out, had a long term plan in grooming Favre's successor. It took three years to transform Rodgers from a rookie QB with flawed mechanics to the polished passer he has now become. But that is the exception. When drafting within the first 100 picks, need plays a role. How much of one will vary with your particular circumstances.

I agree with the bold. But when a team is one like ours, need is everywhere.

Since Fowler and Amari were gone, it's hard to know whether he would have stuck to his guns then and say drafted Amari. That would have proved without a doubt that BPA was being used at the 5 spot.

So it's an easier argument in this year to maintain that Scot didn't stray from his board for need causing him to 'reach'. Of course, I am trusting that Scot is not lying about his board and giving him the benefit of the doubt that he knew something about Leonard that the rest of us didn't

I also agree that too much emphasis is placed on the words BPA, and that a GM is best described as one who lands closer to an overall BPA strategy then a needs strategy. Value plays a role too. If you are purely BPA, that omits the options of trade ups or trade downs. And Scot is known for trade downs. So value definitely plays an important role in his Type of BPA philosophy.

I do however agree that VALUE plays into how BPA by Scot is followed from the perspective of This article written about his former mentor Ted Thompson

Ted Thompsons NFL Draft Strategy: Best Value Available | AllGBP.Com

Excerpt

What exactly is meant by “value,” though, when it comes to the draft?

For starters, it means the talent of a selected player should meet or, preferably, exceed the worth of his draft position. As a simple example, a player with second round potential brings a negative overall value if drafted in the first round.

But beyond that, value is determined by the player’s ability to be an asset to the team. The scouting teams, of course, measure each prospect during the college football season, postseason games, combine, and pro days. The science is far from exact, and in many ways it is a complete gamble. Still, teams will rank their options according to these measurements and determine their relative value for drafting and signing purposes.

Pure talent and skill, however, is not the only value attached to a player.

 

[redskinsfan]

I agree with the bold. But when a team is one like ours, need is everywhere.

Since Fowler and Amari were gone, it's hard to know whether he would have stuck to his guns then and say drafted Amari. That would have proved without a doubt that BPA was being used at the 5 spot.

So it's an easier argument in this year to maintain that Scot didn't stray from his board for need causing him to 'reach'. Of course, I am trusting that Scot is not lying about his board and giving him the benefit of the doubt that he knew something about Leonard that the rest of us didn't

I also agree that too much emphasis is placed on the words BPA, and that a GM is best described as one who lands closer to an overall BPA strategy then a needs strategy. Value plays a role too. If you are purely BPA, that omits the options of trade ups or trade downs. And Scot is known for trade downs. So value definitely plays an important role in his Type of BPA philosophy.

I do however agree that VALUE plays into how BPA by Scot is followed from the perspective of This article written about his former mentor Ted Thompson

Ted Thompsons NFL Draft Strategy: Best Value Available | AllGBP.Com

Excerpt

What exactly is meant by “value,” though, when it comes to the draft?

For starters, it means the talent of a selected player should meet or, preferably, exceed the worth of his draft position. As a simple example, a player with second round potential brings a negative overall value if drafted in the first round.

But beyond that, value is determined by the player’s ability to be an asset to the team. The scouting teams, of course, measure each prospect during the college football season, postseason games, combine, and pro days. The science is far from exact, and in many ways it is a complete gamble. Still, teams will rank their options according to these measurements and determine their relative value for drafting and signing purposes.

Pure talent and skill, however, is not the only value attached to a player.

I agree with what you've said and believe you've echoed my prior points. Draft strategy and philosophy is governed by some general rules. But those get tweaked -- and, in some specific cases, markedly varied -- depending on your specific circumstances. Good teams can usually stray from these rules because they can afford to layer talent. Bad teams like us are forced to get the best player available that can make an impact. Scherff fits that definition the best and is why Scotty got him where he did.

For these reasons, I seriously doubt Scotty would've taken Cooper. He probably would've been third on the depth chart and his addition to the team would make little sense given all the money we've got invested in D-Jax and Pierre.