Hendrickson, Higgins, and Chase

[cincygrad]

I don't think the issue is cap space. This team was bought for a few million dollars back in the day. They are not a family of billionaires from other means. All their wealth comes from this team alone, and while that is substantial, they are cash poor I am sure.

So the real issue becomes guarantees and signing bonuses.

Chase rejected their offer last year, even though they were giving him $36 million, because of the guarantees and timing of bonuses. It was not about the overall money, Chase was fine with that.

Now, if Chase wants, say $40 million a year, $200 million for 5 years, and he wants $140 million guaranteed.....ALL $140 million of that is due up front by the Bengals. All $140 million has to be surrendered to an account that the Bengals nor the player can touch, and it only gets triggered to the players account as determined by the contract signed. But, the Bengals have to pay the entire thing up front to that account.

They just gave Burrow a crazy amount last year and will continue to pay as those triggers occur with roster bonuses, etc.

So now you are looking at:

Chase 5 years / $200 million ($140 million guaranteed)
Higgins 4 years / $112 million ($75 million guaranteed)
Hendrickson 3 years / $90 million ($80 million guaranteed)

In order to get all 3 of these guys signed, they would have to shell out almost $300 million dollars right now to multiple accounts. Do the Bengals have $300 million laying around in cash to get rid of right now? Maybe. How does that wreck other accounts that require that money to keep the facility and staff running? No idea. Just saying, if you are not a self made BILLIONAIRE outside of this ownership, probably hard pressed to find $300 million laying around....Pittsburgh in the same boat. Small cities, small markets, old owners.

The Bengals are generating over 100 million in profit after all expenses. This number was accurate before they increased their revenue streams via naming rights and other deals they have done in the community recently. It sounds like a lot to say they would have to shell out 300 million - But keep in mind that in any given year, a lot of this cash comes directly from the TV revenue - Not from the team's savings. Another factor to keep in mind is that over the last 20 years the family has quietly consolidated ownership so that the extended family owns over 95% of the team. If they truly feel that they are cash poor, they could easily find a minority owner with deep pockets that is willing to bring cash to the table in exchange for equity in the team. Hell, the NFL is a terrific investment for rich folks as it grows much faster than other opportunities. So, bottom line is that I don't feel sorry for the Bengals and you shouldn't either.

 

[cincygrad]

BTW - Maxx Crosby signed a deal today that will pay him an average of 35 million per year. This is going to drive up the renegotiated Myles Garrett deal and the Micah Parsons deal. If Duke Tobin is serious about making Chase the highest paid non-qb, he is going to have to get much closer or even over 40 million per year. Again, we don't need to be feeling sorry for the club - They can do deals earlier or pay the new price.

 

[BKBroiler9000]

Don’t remotely feel sorry for the Blackburns. They ARE NOT poor.

They are stupid, ignorant and stubborn. Every contract negotiation is contentious and unnecessarily painful.

Tee should’ve been signed after 2022. Chase should’ve been done last summer. They’ve had well over a year to get Trey a raise before the monster Crosby deal came down.

They deserve every single ounce of criticism for waiting until now to figure it out. They deserve all the heat when they inevitably don’t get these deals done.

There is no more hiding their broken, archaic ways. The media, the players, and the fans have exposed the lie. Get these players signed. Or sell to someone who will.

 

[DanBengalfan]

Bengals always looking for those "Bengal bargain players"

what's the Temu version of J'Marr Chase look like?

 

[Cincyfan78]

Bengals always looking for those "Bengal bargain players"

what's the Temu version of J'Marr Chase look like?

Jerome Simpson?

 

[cincygrad]

And the Bengals have granted Hendrickson permission to seek a trade. This club sucks ass..... They could easily sign Tee, Trey, Ja'Marr, a starting guard and another piece or two and make a run at the AFC. Instead, we'll end up with some disgruntled starts, some crap free agent signings, some obvious roster holes and a lot of excuse making about pies that don't exist. Fuck the Blackburns.

 

[Cincyfan78]

And the Bengals have granted Hendrickson permission to seek a trade. This club sucks ass..... They could easily sign Tee, Trey, Ja'Marr, a starting guard and another piece or two and make a run at the AFC. Instead, we'll end up with some disgruntled starts, some crap free agent signings, some obvious roster holes and a lot of excuse making about pies that don't exist. Fuck the Blackburns.

Poverty Franchise run by nickle and dime store owners...I'm in the camp of thinking they actually never had any real desire to extend Trey - talked a lot of talk, but never had any truth behind their words. Until proven otherwise, they are liars, and simply poor owners.

the Bengals & Eagles both signed their QB1s to extensions in 2023since?

1 Bengal was re-signed to a contract over $40M (Logan Wilson)

8 Eagles were re-signed to contracts over $40M(A.J. Brown, Landon Dickerson, Lane Johnson, DeVonta Smith, Jordan Mailata, Zach Baun, Darius Slay & Saquon Barkley)

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Poverty Franchise run by nickle and dime store owners...I'm in the camp of thinking they actually never had any real desire to extend Trey - talked a lot of talk, but never had any truth behind their words. Until proven otherwise, they are liars, and simply poor owners.

the Bengals & Eagles both signed their QB1s to extensions in 2023since?

1 Bengal was re-signed to a contract over $40M (Logan Wilson)

8 Eagles were re-signed to contracts over $40M(A.J. Brown, Landon Dickerson, Lane Johnson, DeVonta Smith, Jordan Mailata, Zach Baun, Darius Slay & Saquon Barkley)

I am sure they wanted to resign him, but they were thinking 25-28, and he is thinking I am better than Crosby, give me at least 36 or nevermind.

 

[DanBengalfan]

the bengals will end up giving up 50 points a game, lol.

 

[cincygrad]

The Bengals built the Super Bowl roster by adding free agents coming off of rookie deals and getting ready to make the jump. They never offer guaranteed money but I think were generally trusted to pay out on their contracts. If you were a free agent, would you trust them in the future? If you outperform your deal they aren't going to acknowledge it (Hendrickson) and if you underperform they will cut you (Cappa). At some point, their cheapness and the way they treat players in the last year of a deal is going to hurt them. If Tee doesn't get paid there will be too many former Bengal players mistreated by the team.

 

[BKBroiler9000]

Had a feeling this was coming after the Maxx Crosby deal was announced. And once again the Bengals reactive wait and see MO comes back to bite them in the ass. They could’ve given Trey a raise last year and avoided all this, but refused. They’ll gambled on a step back in production and lost (again). They’ve been wrong so many times lately it’s getting hard to keep up.

I’ll bet anyone $100 they sign washed up injured Joey Bosa to replace Trey. It’s just so on brand for this FO. They’ll get a second rounder for Trey, which they’ll then burn on a some upside edge player who will never see the field. While former 1st rounder Myles Murphy and his 0 sacks in 375 snaps anchors the pass rush.

They should now have all the money in the world to get the WR deals done. But we all know this will end with the Blackburns trying to force Higgins to play on the tag. Followed by Chase’s negotiation dragging into camp again.

Same shit different toilet with this family run clown show. They just don’t care. They will never survive in the modern NFL. Winning is not a priority. And this point it’s debatable if ownership even likes football at all.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I am sure they wanted to resign him, but they were thinking 25-28, and he is thinking I am better than Crosby, give me at least 36 or nevermind.

The issue is, or AN issue is, they HAVE the money to do this...and still sign F/A. Maybe less now with the MC deal...but again, there's the rub...they drag their feet and allow other teams to set the market. They had room, they had the cash, they had the ability to get this done before the MC deal dropped...instead, as they far too often do, they waited and it bit them in the ass big time.

Waited on Higgins...biting them. Waited on Chase, biting them. Waited on Trey, biting them. Waited on Bates, bit them. At some point....

 

[DanBengalfan]

The Bengals FO really doesnt believe this team can win. if they did, they'd be all in. they'd make it happen.

you don't need to spend 279 million dollars a year to finish 10-7 and get eliminated, or just make it interesting and sell tickets. you can do that with bargain players who will do ok against a few underdogs.

...

eventually chase and burrow will wise up and leave before their peak is gone.

 

[BKBroiler9000]

The issue is, or AN issue is, they HAVE the money to do this...and still sign F/A. Maybe less now with the MC deal...but again, there's the rub...they drag their feet and allow other teams to set the market. They had room, they had the cash, they had the ability to get this done before the MC deal dropped...instead, as they far too often do, they waited and it bit them in the ass big time.

Waited on Higgins...biting them. Waited on Chase, biting them. Waited on Trey, biting them. Waited on Bates, bit them. At some point....

The only explanation I can come up with is that they simply don’t care. Don’t care if this team ever makes it back to the Super Bowl. Don’t care if they make the playoffs.

The one thing Blackburns do care about is “winning” contract negotiations. It’s about interjecting their power over the players and the organization. It’s truly sad to watch. Mike Brown for all his faults I believe actually cared about football. These idiot kids are proving to be even worse.

 

[cincygrad]

The issue is, or AN issue is, they HAVE the money to do this...and still sign F/A. Maybe less now with the MC deal...but again, there's the rub...they drag their feet and allow other teams to set the market. They had room, they had the cash, they had the ability to get this done before the MC deal dropped...instead, as they far too often do, they waited and it bit them in the ass big time.

Waited on Higgins...biting them. Waited on Chase, biting them. Waited on Trey, biting them. Waited on Bates, bit them. At some point....

It's pretty clear that they decided long ago that they would have two stars to pay and everyone else would be replaced via draft. They used first rounders on Hill and Murphy to replace Bates and Trey. They used 3 draft picks on receiver in the hopes of finding Tee's replacement. On paper it's reasonable to adopt this sort of strategy to continue to replenish the roster. But the draft is imperfect and eventually a good front office will identify their core and pay early to keep them.

The sad part about Trey is that they could have problaby extended him 3 years when they added the one year. I think he was looking to cash in before getting older and would have been open to a team friendly deal.

 

[Cincyfan78]

The only explanation I can come up with is that they simply don’t care. Don’t care if this team ever makes it back to the Super Bowl. Don’t care if they make the playoffs.

The one thing Blackburns do care about is “winning” contract negotiations. It’s about interjecting their power over the players and the organization. It’s truly sad to watch. Mike Brown for all his faults I believe actually cared about football. These idiot kids are proving to be even worse.

I do think they care - but I think, much like my argument about the 90's, they want to do it THEIR way...hell or high water...the NFL is ever changing. Either you adapt, or you die. In the 90's, the big change was F/A coming into play. Brown died. The Bengals were pitiful.

Things were better under Marvin as he was finally able to drag Brown into the 21st century - but too often Brown (and now it appears Katie) rely on lightening in a bottle from the draft to sustain their organization while not spending on players who have earned the right to big(ger) contracts.

This shouldn't be an issue, because Higgins should have been completed before last year. Hendrickson could have been extended easily last year adding at least 1 more year to the deal (and why not, he was coming off a 17.5 sack season). Adding 1 year wouldn't have broken anything, and likely kept him happy. Chase gets done this year.

Instead - the Bengals drag their feet letting things play out, and here we are. 3 really good players, 2 of them ELITE, and the Bengals want to continue to nickle and dime them.

 

[Cincyfan78]

It's pretty clear that they decided long ago that they would have two stars to pay and everyone else would be replaced via draft. They used first rounders on Hill and Murphy to replace Bates and Trey. They used 3 draft picks on receiver in the hopes of finding Tee's replacement. On paper it's reasonable to adopt this sort of strategy to continue to replenish the roster. But the draft is imperfect and eventually a good front office will identify their core and pay early to keep them.

The sad part about Trey is that they could have problaby extended him 3 years when they added the one year. I think he was looking to cash in before getting older and would have been open to a team friendly deal.

Agreed. It was always going to be Burrow/Chase.

Then when Burrow hit the rounds - it threw everything out the window.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

I'm not too worried about it. Grab a first for Hendrickson, I say trade Tee too. Sign Chase to his long term contract as you just saved 55-60 million a year on two players. Now go out and sign those good FA's coming off their rookie contracts ready to break out and we will see where we sit once the draft is over. Fuck it. If you are going this route, let's go this route and make the best of it by doing what is going to put us back in 2021 playing for a championship.

The milk is spilt, move on and clean up what you can.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I'm not too worried about it. Grab a first for Hendrickson, I say trade Tee too. Sign Chase to his long term contract as you just saved 55-60 million a year on two players. Now go out and sign those good FA's coming off their rookie contracts ready to break out and we will see where we sit once the draft is over. Fuck it. If you are going this route, let's go this route and make the best of it by doing what is going to put us back in 2021 playing for a championship.

The milk is spilt, move on and clean up what you can.

The early round consensus is saying it's likely a 2nd for Trey and maybe a future pick...we'll see. No guarantee the Bengals actually trade him - he is under contract.

It doesn't really behoove him to sit out at 30, and enter at 31 with a year off...at a position in which you have to honestly ask yourself - is he going to be worth that money to get 17 sacks a year? Is that something you can bank on at 31 and coming off a year off?

To take a more pragmatic approach to all of this...Trey hasn't been the best guy in this. He got extended, and then bitched last year with 2 years left against NFL rules of some kind (think I read this somewhere) in terms of getting extended a 2nd year in a row...but regardless...he just signed a deal. He is going to be 30, and unless you think he can be the exception, not the rule, how much DO you pay for a 31+ year old DE at a position in which...usually...doesn't age great....how much cap do you want to tie up?

I think the Bengals are willing to pay him, but I don't think they are willing to pay him Max Crosby money, who happens to be 27...big difference in the sports world between 27 and 30.

 

[Cincyfan78]

It's pretty clear that they decided long ago that they would have two stars to pay and everyone else would be replaced via draft. They used first rounders on Hill and Murphy to replace Bates and Trey. They used 3 draft picks on receiver in the hopes of finding Tee's replacement. On paper it's reasonable to adopt this sort of strategy to continue to replenish the roster. But the draft is imperfect and eventually a good front office will identify their core and pay early to keep them.

The sad part about Trey is that they could have problaby extended him 3 years when they added the one year. I think he was looking to cash in before getting older and would have been open to a team friendly deal.

To add to a point you make - the Bengals have always contracted players and expect them to play out the contract, and they expect to honor the contract themselves. They've slowing been moving away from that latter, and now they need to move away from the former.

It's time for the Bengals to identify core talent before the last year of their deals, and work on extensions. Not only does it guarantee you keep your guy around for another 2-3 years, long-term, it's 100% cheaper. This is where, IMO, they miss the mark. The cap rises nearly every year. Maybe not always at the rate it is now, but it goes up every year. That drives salaries higher. Rarely do salaries in sports ever stagnate.

Bengals need to change their model. It did work in the 2000's with Marvin, but the game has changed. It's time for the organization to face this reality - they need to move on from contracts that are bad and they need to extend contracts before they are actually up.