Guess Who?

[smokeyburgess]

[I posted this in another thread, but upon reflection, I think it would be more appropriate as a separate post, so here it is again. This time (for ease of reading) I have deleted the hits and walks and just included the innings pitched and the earned runs allowed.]

Would you want a pitcher with the following 2011 stats as a back-end-of-the rotation starter this year? I've divided them into his best starts (18) and the worst starts (8).

THE GOOD/DECENT:

Innings earned runs

6.2 -- 1
6.1 -- 1
6 ---- 3
6 ---- 1
6 ---- 4
6 ---- 3
5.2 -- 1
7.2 -- 4
6 ---- 2
7.1 -- 0
6.2 -- 2
6.1 -- 4
6 ---- 2
6.2 -- 0
9 ---- 2
7 ---- 0
6 ---- 2
6 ---- 4

THE UGLY:

Innings earned runs

6 ---- 6
5.2 -- 4
2 ---- 8
4.2 -- 7
3.2 -- 5
5 ---- 4
4 ---- 6
4.2 -- 5

This pitcher clearly wasn't dominant, but he was fairly consistent and usually kept his team in the game, which is exactly what you would hope for from a fourth or fifth starter. When he was bad, as he was in his worst 8 starts, he was very bad, but that's also what one might expect from a back-of-the-rotation guy. On the whole, he had about 2 good or decent starts for every bad one. Not bad, especially for the mediocre team he pitched for last year.

Who is he? Do you think the Pirates could use someone with his track record as a fourth or fifth starter?

 

[thedddd]

So you like Kevin Correia?

Not sure I would call 4 earned runs in 6 innings as good and only half his starts were deemed Quality Starts.

Honestly no I really don't want him as a 4th or 5th starter. You need better to be a winning team.

 

[Illinest]

If he cant complete 6 innings then hes not doing us any favors. Those are the kind of games where we have to dig deep into the bullpen that night and it often affects us the next night as well. I also dont consider 4 runs in 6 innings to be a good start. Thats an ERA of 6.

So i would adjust the list and i see 14 good starts compared to 12 bad ones. Thats terrible.

 

[magnumo]

Looks like a fairly typical #5 starter..... but probably not good enough for a team who's offense is as weak as the Pirates' offense.

 

[smokeyburgess]

I don't particularly like Correia; in fact, I've been just as disgusted with some of his bad outings as any other fan, but I do think he contributed more last year than many people on this board give him credit for. And with Morton and Burnett out for the start of the season, I'd rather have him as a 4th/5th starter right now than someone like Lincoln or McCutchen.

 

[element1286]

I'd rather have Lincoln.

 

[thecrow124]

The point is pretty much moot now as Morton is back with the team and expected to start Saturday in SF. But I like Lincoln better also.

 

[sychmd]

correia is on fire today. what a clutch performance to build team confidence on the road. even if they lose, they showed they can go against the best pitcher in the league and be competitive till the end.
for the long haul, lincoln has had some chances and never seems to shine. when expectations are low, like late sept, he puts together some innings. it would be nice to see him step up to the challenge and put some dominating performances together in AAA that demands attention. until then, he is a throw in to a team that doesnt realize he doesnt have the mental makeup to win consistently in the bigs.

 

[pixburgher66]

Correia did great today...it's the consistency that's frustrating. I think most of us would agree he was pretty lucky last year in terms of the offensive support he got. That said I'd take him over Lincoln. Lincoln never impressed me.

 

[smokeyburgess]

If he cant complete 6 innings then hes not doing us any favors. Those are the kind of games where we have to dig deep into the bullpen that night and it often affects us the next night as well. I also dont consider 4 runs in 6 innings to be a good start. Thats an ERA of 6.

So i would adjust the list and i see 14 good starts compared to 12 bad ones. Thats terrible.

I guess you didn't look at his game-to-game stats very closely. Correia pitched 6 or more innings in 19 out of 26 appearances. Perhaps that's not impressive for a frontline starter, but for a 4th/5th starter it's pretty good.

If you're going to bash the guy, at least base your criticism on facts.

Also, I categorized the games in which he gave up 4 runs in 6 innings under the heading "Good/Decent." On a good-hitting team (which I grant the Pirates were not last year), giving up 4 runs in 6 innings on occasion isn't necessarily catastrophic for a 4th/5th starter. It is decent. It's not Correia's fault the Pirates were/are a weak-hitting team.

 

[smokeyburgess]

So you like Kevin Correia?

Not sure I would call 4 earned runs in 6 innings as good and only half his starts were deemed Quality Starts.

Honestly no I really don't want him as a 4th or 5th starter. You need better to be a winning team.

Ditto.

 

[Illinest]

You stretched your point too far and I don't consider your argument credible. 4 runs in 6 innings is not good or decent. It is bad. It's an ERA of 6.
He's not a good starter. He's not even good for a 4th or 5th starter.

And I'm not sure if you misunderstood me or if you're trying to set up a strawman argument but I was specifically responding to your list of 'good/decent' games.
You listed 18 games as 'good/decent'. I discounted one start because he didn't even make it 6 innings and three others because he allowed four runs. Hence - 14 'decent' starts. Not 18 as you alleged.

I don't have patience for watching you monkey around with false arguments and silly attacks on my credibility like 'use facts'. If you want to have a discussion that's fine. I prefer discussion - I just don't see much to discuss here. I don't understand the point of this. We need to replace Correia with a more talented pitcher. No amount of quibbling over the supposed 'quality' of Correia's performances in 2011 will change that. You didn't make the point you were hoping to make. I still want Correia gone.