Greatest NFL Player Tournament - (8) Peyton Manning vs. (9) Don Hutson

[iowajerms]

This Week

1st seed - WR Jerry Rice vs 16th seed - RB Barry Sanders
8th seed - QB Peyton Manning vs 9th seed - WR Don Hutson

Seeds are based on a ranking from NFL.com. I did not include the two offensive linemen that are in the top 24.

This will be double elimination. Allowed to change votes until deadline. Higher seed advances in case of a tie.

Bracket
*Poll does not close until June 1st around 12:40 pm. The poll results on the brackets are not official.

Spoiler: ”First Round Matchups”

Barry Sanders vs Ray Lewis thread
Don Hutson vs Bob Lily thread
Deacon Jones vs Brett Favre thread
Ronnie Lott vs John Elway thread
Dick Butkus vs Dan Marino thread
Otto Graham vs Bronko Nagurski thread

 

[blstoker]

I like Peyton Manning fine and he's a top 10 all time QB, but no one was ever as dominating at his position than Hutson was at WR in the 30s and 40s. In 11 years, he led the league in receptions 8 times, yards 7 times, TDs 9 timesand was a first team all pro 8 times.

 

[iowajerms]

I like Peyton Manning fine and he's a top 10 all time QB, but no one was ever as dominating at his position than Hutson was at WR in the 30s and 40s. In 11 years, he led the league in receptions 8 times, yards 7 times, TDs 9 timesand was a first team all pro 8 times.

Leading the league in receiving in 1930s and early 40s is different than leading the league in passing today. Hutson was the 1st superstar WR in the NFL. That is a double-edged sword in a "Greatest of all Time" situation. Leading the league all those times is impressive, but what other wide receivers did he have challenging him? He also played during a time when Notre Dame's running schemes were dominant, which is based mostly on running. Defenses were set up to stop the run.

Also, Manning made others around him better, especially the WRs and TEs. Joe Montana and Tom Brady were not like that. Marino was. He didn't have hall of fame talent around him, except for Marvin Harrison. D Thomas, maybe. But with Manning, defenses and coaches understood how to stop passing when Manning came around, and he still is 1 of 2 QBs to define the era.

Close, but I think Manning is better.

 

[blstoker]

Leading the league in receiving in 1930s and early 40s is different than leading the league in passing today. Hutson was the 1st superstar WR in the NFL. That is a double-edged sword in a "Greatest of all Time" situation. Leading the league all those times is impressive, but what other wide receivers did he have challenging him? He also played during a time when Notre Dame's running schemes were dominant, which is based mostly on running. Defenses were set up to stop the run.

Also, Manning made others around him better, especially the WRs and TEs. Joe Montana and Tom Brady were not like that. Marino was. He didn't have hall of fame talent around him, except for Marvin Harrison. D Thomas, maybe. But with Manning, defenses and coaches understood how to stop passing when Manning came around, and he still is 1 of 2 QBs to define the era.

Close, but I think Manning is better.

Oh, I agree that the game has changed, which is what makes making any case for Hutson very hard to do.

As for Manning making people better, I am not sure I would say that Manning did that more than Montana or Brady did. I mean, it isn't like Manning didn't have Marvin Harrison (174 games, 1038 catches, 120 TDs) and Reggie Wayne (157 games, 787 catches, 69 TDs).

Now, Hutson didn't exactly have HoFers throwing him the ball. Arnie Herber and Cecil Isbell, among others. Green Bay led the league in passing only 4 times in Hutson's career, but only once after 1937, so it wasn't like they threw the ball more often than any other team - Hutson just accounted for 43% of their passing game (for his entire career, he was over 50% some seasons). So, it isn't like Green Bay was doing anything that the rest of the league wasn't doing, and during that era, most defenses had the upper hand against passing offenses (creating significantly more turnovers than scores allowed). Playing receiver was tougher in the eras before Manning than anything Manning had to face with his receivers getting open.

Comparing players from two different positions is hard enough, but making it two different eras is even harder. People look at the old players and think that there's no way they could play today (which is correct). I always look at how they performed against their own peers, instead. It isn't perfect, but nothing really is.

In closing, some interesting facts (or at least I find them interesting). Hutson's single season receiving td record stood for 42 years until Mark Clayton had 18 in 1984. Hutson's career receiving td record stood for 44 years until Steve Largent passes him with his 100th in 1989. His 102 total career tds was the most by a WR for 47 years until Jerry Rice scored his 104th on 11/22/1992. And, finally, since 1945 only Don Hutson, Steve Largent and Jerry Rice have held the records for career reception, yards and touchdowns all at the same time.

Manning will win - but I think this was an excellent matchup - even if the voting doesn't show it.

 

[iowajerms]

Oh, I agree that the game has changed, which is what makes making any case for Hutson very hard to do.

As for Manning making people better, I am not sure I would say that Manning did that more than Montana or Brady did. I mean, it isn't like Manning didn't have Marvin Harrison (174 games, 1038 catches, 120 TDs) and Reggie Wayne (157 games, 787 catches, 69 TDs).

Now, Hutson didn't exactly have HoFers throwing him the ball. Arnie Herber and Cecil Isbell, among others. Green Bay led the league in passing only 4 times in Hutson's career, but only once after 1937, so it wasn't like they threw the ball more often than any other team - Hutson just accounted for 43% of their passing game (for his entire career, he was over 50% some seasons). So, it isn't like Green Bay was doing anything that the rest of the league wasn't doing, and during that era, most defenses had the upper hand against passing offenses (creating significantly more turnovers than scores allowed). Playing receiver was tougher in the eras before Manning than anything Manning had to face with his receivers getting open.

Arnie Herber is a HOFer.

Also, what Brady and Montana had that Manning didn't is that clutch performance in big games. Manning's playoff record is horrible.

 

[packfancjh]

In one of Hutson's better years he had more yards than all three of the next closest guys combined. He helped develop most of the routes that receivers use today. He dominated his time like no other has