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Gordon: negotiations, legal maneuverings, and odds he'll play

wilwhite

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From what I understand, this is pretty interesting (from a tactical perspective, anyway - from a human perspective Josh just needs to get his act together).

It looks like the league is holding off on its ruling in the hopes the two sides will settle (the whole concept of "settle" implies less than 16 games). But there have been no meetings - apparently because Gordon's team (Rosenhaus and crew) refuse to sit down. Obviously this means they think they have leverage - i.e. they think that the original ruling won't be backed up, or that they have other legal avenues, like a lawsuit (under Ohio law presumably), which would probably include an injunction that would allow Gordon to play.

An injunction would almost certainly be granted because Gordon can't get this year back later and this is his livelihood, but if the league gets their suspension later a delay doesn't really cost them anything.

I think it's very likely that there's a late settlement anyway, and Gordon plays at at least half the year, but more likely 10+ games.

In the unlikely chance that there's no settlement, I think the chances are about even that Goodell rules against Gordon - because on the one hand everything is technically correct per the league policy, but on the other this testing procedure could get hammered in court, which legally can supersede the fact that the NFLPA agreed to it, and that's an outcome that would hurt the whole substance abuse program).

If Goodell rules against Gordon, I assume it goes immediately to court, where Gordon has an excellent chance at an injunction, and a reasonable chance at having the ruling thrown out.

So the only way Gordon doesn't play is if:
1) there is no settlement (unlikely - say 30%) AND
2) Goodell rules against Gordon (even - say 50%) AND
3) there isn't a subsequent lawsuit or the court doesn't grant an injunction (unlikely - say 30%) AND
4) without an injunction the trial lasts all season or the court decides against Gordon (about even - say 50%)

So if I'm right, the chances for Gordon not to play this season would be .30 x .50 x .30 x .50 - or about 2%. Meaning I think there's about a 98% chance he plays. How many games, and which part of the season, is kind of up for grabs though.

If we suddenly find out that there was no settlement and the ruling goes against Gordon, my estimate drops to about 85% that he plays - which is still pretty high.

(Whether he keeps his act together enough to not get banned anyway is another analysis entirely.)
 

Beengay fudgepackers

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Yeah, I've been reading up on the situation and he barely failed one test by 1 ng/ml. You must also take into account that they are given a test that is 10X stronger than the rest of the nation is tested by. He took a subsequent test and passed by a 1.4 ng/ml. That test is unbelievably strong and failing a test of that strength at the capacity gordon did, it only shows that he breathed in second hand smoke. I think Goodell knows this and will seek a settlement that allows Gordon to play this year. His first infraction was for taking codeine in cough syrup.

This is all ridiculous if you ask me.
 

wilwhite

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Well - it could have been second-handsmoke yesterday or sucking down a fatty on his own two weeks ago. And the codeine was his second infraction (in the NFL, after at least two in college for pot). So I'm not giving him a free pass here, just interested in the legal dance - and from a fantasy perspective how likely it is that he'll play.
 

averagejoe

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Nice write-up, Wil.

I have no idea what the outcome will be. Even if he plays, the new regime may not present Gordon with the same explosion of yardage he had last season IMO.
 

Beengay fudgepackers

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Well - it could have been second-handsmoke yesterday or sucking down a fatty on his own two weeks ago. And the codeine was his second infraction (in the NFL, after at least two in college for pot). So I'm not giving him a free pass here, just interested in the legal dance - and from a fantasy perspective how likely it is that he'll play.

Yeah, but I also heard the are tested 10 times a month, so I doubt it was sucking down a fatty. I could be wrong though.
 

wilwhite

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Yeah, but I also heard the are tested 10 times a month.

The policy allows for it, but that's just the upper limit, not the norm. If Gordon had a negative test within a few days of this one, though, then it probably really is second-hand. (Which, by the way, would actually say a lot in favor of Gordon if he's hanging out with dudes lighting up and abstaining himself.) But my guess is they just didn't test him for a while before this one.

And Joe, that's a great point. But hard to believe what he did as a rookie in 14 games.
 

jarntt

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While I think much of what you say makes a lot of sense legally, your statistics and thus your 98% conclusion are a little off base...
 

wilwhite

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Okay - so let's say there's an 80% chance there's not a settlement, a 90% chance Goodell rules against Gordon, a 70% chance Gordon can't get an injunction, and if there isn't an injunction an 80% chance of a long trial or a decision against Gordon. (The thing is, all those have to happen to keep Gordon off the field.) That's .80 x .90 x .70 x .80, which gives 40% chance he's out, still leaving a 60% chance he'll play this season.

I think my guesses are closer - but they are just guesses.
 

TREFF

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Interesting thoughts, no doubts, all very possible. Yet I don't buy them having as strong of a legal stance as they, or possibly you, might think they do. NFL is a private corporation, they have the right to deny employment to anyone who violates the terms of their employment, or just doesn't measure up to the terms of employment (I.e. failing the drug policy). And remember the last time someone sued them on a "right to work" type of case. . They got a temporary injunction too, which was quickly thrown out. An injunction might not be as easy to get this time around.
I'm certainly no lawyer, but I have a hard time buying any one who thinks they can take the NFL to court on something like this and expects to win. No one has a right to work for the NFL, but if they do. . I'm suing cuz I want in too!
 

TREFF

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And actually, if they rule against him, and if there's no settlement, and ifthere's no injunction, the trail can be as long as anyone wants. . Without the injunction they don't have to let him play during the trail.
 

wilwhite

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Jeremy Mayfield got an injunction that would have allowed him to race if he could have gotten sponsors. In awarding the injunction, the judge said "harm to Mr. Mayfield significantly outweighs the harm to NASCAR." Same would apply here.

Then he tested positive again and that was that. But the precedent is definitely there.
 

Sam Sportboy

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FWIW........................here are like 2 "Breaking" reports I just read.................

(Rotoworld)Coach Mike Pettine conceded Sunday the Browns are "fairly certain" Josh Gordon's suspension will cost him time during the 2014 season.
Analysis: In other words, the Browns don't anticipate appeals officer Harold Henderson letting Gordon entirely off the hook. The initial belief was that Gordon's suspension appeal was an "all-or-nothing" proposition. The Browns likely remain hopeful he will at least be available for some portion of the season.

(KFFL)Cleveland Browns WR Josh Gordon's hearing for a drunken-driving charge has been rescheduled for November. He was originally scheduled to appear in court Tuesday, Aug. 26. He was arrested July 5 after being pulled over for going 50 mph in a 35 mph zone. Gordon is also still waiting to hear from the league on whether he'll be suspended for all or part of this year for violating the league's substance-abuse policy.
 

Beengay fudgepackers

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FWIW........................here are like 2 "Breaking" reports I just read.................

(Rotoworld)Coach Mike Pettine conceded Sunday the Browns are "fairly certain" Josh Gordon's suspension will cost him time during the 2014 season.
Analysis: In other words, the Browns don't anticipate appeals officer Harold Henderson letting Gordon entirely off the hook. The initial belief was that Gordon's suspension appeal was an "all-or-nothing" proposition. The Browns likely remain hopeful he will at least be available for some portion of the season.

(KFFL)Cleveland Browns WR Josh Gordon's hearing for a drunken-driving charge has been rescheduled for November. He was originally scheduled to appear in court Tuesday, Aug. 26. He was arrested July 5 after being pulled over for going 50 mph in a 35 mph zone. Gordon is also still waiting to hear from the league on whether he'll be suspended for all or part of this year for violating the league's substance-abuse policy.

Those aren't really breaking. ESPN was reporting those a few days ago. I feel as though Gordon will miss time, but not the whole year.
 

averagejoe

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I think Treff brings up an excellent point. As it's own corporation, the NFL has the right to set it's own regulations and be able to enforce them. It's not like this is an issue in a Cleveland municipality that can be challenged based on U.S. constitutional laws. Gordon isn't a citizen of the NFL, he's an employee.
 

SmokingMonkey

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still can't believe this is getting dragged out this long.

hello NFL, everyone is already watching you non-stop this time of year, no need for the extra theatrics, time to make a freakin' decision, one way or the other, JUST DECIDE ALREADY!
 

Beengay fudgepackers

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still can't believe this is getting dragged out this long.

hello NFL, everyone is already watching you non-stop this time of year, no need for the extra theatrics, time to make a freakin' decision, one way or the other, JUST DECIDE ALREADY!

I don't think the NFL is dragging it out. I think team Gordon is.
 

wilwhite

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As it's own corporation, the NFL has the right to set it's own regulations and be able to enforce them.
The NFL is actually an unincorporated non-profit, representing the 32 teams and financed by them. NASCAR's actually a family-owned business, which should give them even more leeway and yet...

NASCAR driver Jeremy Mayfield granted temporary injunction of suspension, will race Saturday - ESPN

(Mayfield did screw the pooch shortly after, but this does point up that a business's right to "set its own regulations and be able to enforce them" is far from absolute - for better or worse.)
 

TREFF

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The NFL is actually an unincorporated non-profit, representing the 32 teams and financed by them. NASCAR's actually a family-owned business, which should give them even more leeway and yet...

NASCAR driver Jeremy Mayfield granted temporary injunction of suspension, will race Saturday - ESPN

(Mayfield did screw the pooch shortly after, but this does point up that a business's right to "set its own regulations and be able to enforce them" is far from absolute - for better or worse.)




:lol::wtf2:
Is pathetic how great of a profit "non profits" can turn
 

TREFF

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Seriously though. . They were able to not only win a case about "right to work", but in doing so, were able to impose what essentially is an age requirement. Apparently they have much better lawyers than the Frances did.
 
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