Good/great forgotten players of yesteryear

[navamind]

Dwight Evans, Jim Rice's teammate who should be in the HOF instead of Jim Rice. Probably the strongest and most accurate RF arm since Roberto Clemente.

Dewey's far more deserving than Rice though he looks a bit borderline. Dewey had a weird career arc. He was more of a good hitter with a great glove and then he turned into a great hitter with an OK/below average glove (per Rfield). Only two seasons where he was in the top 10 in WAR (including the strike shortened-1981 where he led the AL), but he was at least an above average player for 16 years (8 seasons with 4+ WAR, 6 more seasons with 3+). Overall, he has 67.1 WAR and 33 WAA which is in line (if not better) than the HOF benchmark. I think he should be in but it comes down to how much you weigh peak vs career value I suppose.

Reggie Smith should definitely be in as well IMO.

 

[navamind]

Two guys who were Freehan's teammates and rank 74th and 77th respectively on the all time homerun list: Norm Cash and Rocky Colovito. Colavito hit 358 homeruns over an 11-year span in the heart of the pitcher's era of dominance (50s and 60s). Cash's 139 career OPS+ is higher than HOFers Ken Griffey's, Tony Gwynn's, Orlando Cepeda's, George Brett's, Joe Morgan's, Jackie Robinson's, Wade Boggs'....well, you get the point.

Colavito had a monster 1958 at the plate (.303/.405/.620, 180 OPS+, 41 home runs, 113 RBI's in 143 games). Cash was ridiculous in 1961 (.361/.487/.662, 201 OPS+, 41 home runs, 132 RBI's, 9.2 WAR). The only thing Maris did was hit more home runs. Maris winning over him and Mantle was a joke.

And speaking of Tigers, that Al Kaline guy was pretty good.

 

[nynasty]

1975: the year they bought Catfish Hunter and became the Fraudkees. Hi Nasty. Zig is looking for you.

Thanks, Blade.

Charlie Finley gets at least a little blame for getting the whole ball rolling, no?

 

[navamind]

Andy Messersmith

 

[PolarVortex]

Thanks, Blade.

Charlie Finley gets at least a little blame for getting the whole ball rolling, no?

Probably. Between Finley and Al Davis, Oakland has made some interesting contributions to professional team sports in North America.

 

[PolarVortex]

Andy Messersmith

Curt Flood

 

[NolePride]

Curt Flood

Curt Flood won the case that brought free agency to baseball. He
paid a steep price for that also.

 

[NolePride]

Probably. Between Finley and Al Davis, Oakland has made some interesting contributions to professional team sports in North America.

Has nothing to do with Oakland, but Bill Veeck was the ultimate
Wheeler and Dealer. There was a headline in a baseball magazine
about him that read..."Veeck traded everything but the ballpark."
One year he traded Managers. I remember him with the White Sox
and then the Indians. He also gave us the first exploding scoreboard
at Comiskey Park. Guy was a showman. Not quite like Finley
though. He livened up the sport with his green and gold uniforms for
the A's...and his Mule...Carlie O, that would graze in the outfield before games.

 

[PolarVortex]

Curt Flood won the case that brought free agency to baseball. He
paid a steep price for that also.

Yeah, Flood and Messersmith were before my time but I know a lot of baseball history and I know those two names will be forever linked. Messersmith was one of the first players to take advantage of the door Flood opened for all MLB players.

Looking at Flood's career stats in Baseball Reference ( Curt Flood Stats | Baseball-Reference.com ), Flood amassed 1850 hits by age 31 and then he was basically done, despite still being in his prime. I'm sure there are several players in the 3000 hit club who did not have 1850 hits by age 31. So when you say Flood paid a steep price for his activism, his career stats speak loudly in agreement.

 

[PolarVortex]

Has nothing to do with Oakland, but Bill Veeck was the ultimate
Wheeler and Dealer. There was a headline in a baseball magazine
about him that read..."Veeck traded everything but the ballpark."
One year he traded Managers. I remember him with the White Sox
and then the Indians. He also gave us the first exploding scoreboard
at Comiskey Park. Guy was a showman. Not quite like Finley
though. He livened up the sport with his green and gold uniforms for
the A's...and his Mule...Carlie O, that would graze in the outfield before games.

A couple more Finleyisms:

Rollie Fingers and his 72 hours as a member of the Red Sox before dictator Bowie Kuhn shot down the transaction. 28 years later the commissioner (Bud Selig) would again shoot down another trade that would have sent another superstar to Boston.

orange baseballs:

 

[Pure Steel]

Has nothing to do with Oakland, but Bill Veeck was the ultimate
Wheeler and Dealer. There was a headline in a baseball magazine
about him that read..."Veeck traded everything but the ballpark."
One year he traded Managers. I remember him with the White Sox
and then the Indians. He also gave us the first exploding scoreboard
at Comiskey Park. Guy was a showman. Not quite like Finley
though. He livened up the sport with his green and gold uniforms for
the A's...and his Mule...Carlie O, that would graze in the outfield before games.

At least 10 cent beer night worked out real well......

 

[NolePride]

Yeah, Flood and Messersmith were before my time but I know a lot of baseball history and I know those two names will be forever linked. Messersmith was one of the first players to take advantage of the door Flood opened for all MLB players.

Looking at Flood's career stats in Baseball Reference ( Curt Flood Stats | Baseball-Reference.com ), Flood amassed 1850 hits by age 31 and then he was basically done, despite still being in his prime. I'm sure there are several players in the 3000 hit club who did not have 1850 hits by age 31. So when you say Flood paid a steep price for his activism, his career stats speak loudly in agreement.

I'm trying to remember but I think he refused a trade or something
like that. He took a hit in St Louis. Next to the Yankees, St Louis
is probably the best baseball town/team. Very traditional franchise.
Flood was radical. People couldn't accept it.

If you like history, I'll tell you a football story from back then.

Vince Lombardi ruled the Packers with an Iron Hand. But he was
successful. He took over a Packer team that was 1-10-1 in 1957
and had them 7-5 in 1958. He even changed their jersey colors.
The Packers used to wear Blue jersies, Vince changed them to Green.

Anyway, the Packrs were loaded wth talent. The best center in the
game was Jim Ringo. Well, Lombardi was also the GM. Ringo cam
in for a scheduled appointment to discuss his 1962 or 63 contract,
I forget the year. Ringo also had some guy with him. Lombardi
asked Ringo..."Who's this?" Ringo answered, "He's my agent, he
will be handling my contract negotiations. (Nobody had agents then). Lomdardi excused himself from the room, telling them he
had to do something and he'd be back in 5 minutes.

When he returned he said..."Now, where were we?" The agent spoke up and said…"I'm here to discuss Mr Ringo's contract for the
coming year."

Lombardi asked him..."Why are you talking to me?" The agent
replied..."Because you are his Coach and GM." Lombardi shot back..."I'm the coach and GM of the Green Bay Packers, and I've
just traded Jim Ringo to the Philadelphia Eagles."

Ringo and Lombardi never spoke again.

 

[Pure Steel]

I'm trying to remember but I think he refused a trade or something
like that. He took a hit in St Louis. Next to the Yankees, St Louis
is probably the best baseball town/team. Very traditional franchise.
Flood was radical. People couldn't accept it.

If you like history, I'll tell you a football story from back then.

Vince Lombardi ruled the Packers with an Iron Hand. But he was
successful. He took over a Packer team that was 1-10-1 in 1957
and had them 7-5 in 1958. He even changed their jersey colors.
The Packers used to wear Blue jersies, Vince changed them to Green.

Anyway, the Packrs were loaded wth talent. The best center in the
game was Jim Ringo. Well, Lombardi was also the GM. Ringo cam
in for a scheduled appointment to discuss his 1962 or 63 contract,
I forget the year. Ringo also had some guy with him. Lombardi
asked Ringo..."Who's this?" Ringo answered, "He's my agent, he
will be handling my contract negotiations. (Nobody had agents then). Lomdardi excused himself from the room, telling them he
had to do something and he'd be back in 5 minutes.

When he returned he said..."Now, where were we?" The agent spoke up and said…"I'm here to discuss Mr Ringo's contract for the
coming year."

Lombardi asked him..."Why are you talking to me?" The agent
replied..."Because you are his Coach and GM." Lombardi shot back..."I'm the coach and GM of the Green Bay Packers, and I've
just traded Jim Ringo to the Philadelphia Eagles."

Ringo and Lombardi never spoke again.

I remember that story years later.....I'm pretty sure it's false.....

 

[DragonfromTO]

Has nothing to do with Oakland, but Bill Veeck was the ultimate
Wheeler and Dealer. There was a headline in a baseball magazine
about him that read..."Veeck traded everything but the ballpark."
One year he traded Managers. I remember him with the White Sox
and then the Indians. He also gave us the first exploding scoreboard
at Comiskey Park. Guy was a showman. Not quite like Finley
though. He livened up the sport with his green and gold uniforms for
the A's...and his Mule...Carlie O, that would graze in the outfield before games.

I think I can still bring things back full circle though, as I believe that Veeck testified on Curt Flood's behalf when Flood sued Kuhn and MLB.

 

[NolePride]

I think I can still bring things back full circle though, as I believe that Veeck testified on Curt Flood's behalf when Flood sued Kuhn and MLB.

I definetly would believe that. Baseball was deeply involved
in tradition back then. I don't think many of them liked Veecks
antics. So I could see him side with Flood.

Bill Veeck was a pretty colorful individual. Charlie O (the guy, not
the mule) wanted to liven the sport up with flashy uniforms. The
uni's were pretty boring before Charlie O. White at home and gray
flannels on the road. There were no multiple uniforms.

After the '58 NFL title game (Sudden Death) these guys new the
NFL was fixin' to pass them by and they were trying to head that
off at the pass.

 

[navamind]

Rafael Furcal. Good fielder, great baserunner, and had a few pretty good offensive years. He could not stay on the field in LA though.

 

[navamind]

Josh Willingham. Solid hitter (career .253/.358/.465, 120 OPS+). He had a really good year in Minnesota in 2012 hitting .260/.366/.524 (143 OPS+, 6th in the AL) with 35 home runs and 110 RBIs. Also hit 2 grand slams in a game.

 

[navamind]

Pedro Guerrero


Great hitter too. .300/.370/.480 and 137 OPS+, hit .320/.422/.577 with a 182 OPS+ and 33 home runs in 137 games in 1985. Played a big role in the Dodgers' 1981 WS championship by hitting .333/.417/.762 with 2 home runs and 7 RBIs in 6 games against the Yanks.

 

[Indrid Cold]

At least 10 cent beer night worked out real well......

Was Veeck still there for Disco Demolition?

 

[Indrid Cold]

Pedro Guerrero
Great hitter too. .300/.370/.480 and 137 OPS+, hit .320/.422/.577 with a 182 OPS+ and 33 home runs in 137 games in 1985. Played a big role in the Dodgers' 1981 WS championship by hitting .333/.417/.762 with 2 home runs and 7 RBIs in 6 games against the Yanks.

Pedro was a scary hitter in his prime and still commanded a lot of respect when he was older.
I scored a great seat in the box seats behind home plate at Wrigley when I was home from Dallas and couldn't get ahold of my friends, as a single really nice seats were still available on game day.
Cubs were playing the Cards and Guerrero came in to pinch hit at a key moment...the park just went completely silent, everybody knew this guy. First pitch was a change or some junky breaking stuff and Pedro was totally fooled, swung like a rusty gate way ahead of the ball. An older guy behind me stood up and yelled, "NICE SWING THERE PEEDRO, YOU SUCK!!"
The entire park cracked up and I know that Guerrero had to have heard it...he struck out on three pitches.
Reminded me of another great moment at Wrigley when the Braves had Brad Komminsk (remember him?) and a Cub baserunner faked heading for home to draw a throw. Komminsk had a cannon and threw an absolute bullet strike to the catcher on a line from LF...30,000 people all went, "OOOOHHHHH", at the same time!