GIROUX SCORES

[banditshcky11]

Datsyuk or Giroux would vary based on the team. They bring some different weapons to the table beyond points.

I'd definitely put the "Elite" tag on Giroux, but wouldn't go quite as far as calling him the second-best. As much as a lot of people have fallen off the band-wagon, I still think of Ovechkin as that guy. No substantial evidence, I just get more nervous when Ovie has the puck against the Penguins.

Who's the best then? You're going to say Sid I'm sure. I don't agree, to be the best player you have to be an all around player, not just put up points. There are tons of guys who put up numbers, score timely goals and KILL PENALTIES. If you aren't a complete player I personally don't care how many points you put up, you won't be the best in my eyes.

 

[pixburgher66]

Who's the best then? You're going to say Sid I'm sure. I don't agree, to be the best player you have to be an all around player, not just put up points. There are tons of guys who put up numbers, score timely goals and KILL PENALTIES. If you aren't a complete player I personally don't care how many points you put up, you won't be the best in my eyes.

The cool thing about these young stars coming up is that they ARE this mold of player. Some of the biggest stars in the league are on the PP and the PK, and one of their greatest attributes is back-checking. I love that.

 

[DChero]

Who's the best then? You're going to say Sid I'm sure. I don't agree, to be the best player you have to be an all around player, not just put up points. There are tons of guys who put up numbers, score timely goals and KILL PENALTIES. If you aren't a complete player I personally don't care how many points you put up, you won't be the best in my eyes.

I'm a little biased. I agree that it's not just about points, that's another reason why I think of Crosby. It's not a big deal, I'm sure there are many other opinions around here.

 

[filosofy29]

I really hope you guys aren't comparing the two. Not a knock on Giroux, he's an amazing player leading the league, but the two comeback games aren't comparable. Sorry folks, 10 months is a bit different than 10 days. Jusssst sayin'.

Why not? Unfortunately with todays media, comparisons happen all the time (rightly or wrongly). With talk radio being what it is, everybody needs something to talk about, so if there's nothing brewing, just stir something up.

Besides, going on comparisons that are fair or unfair, Giroux is much closer to Crosby than Crosby (Lindros, Stamkos, et al) are to Gretzky. I think Crosby's might have been a tad more impressive due to the length of time missed, but Giroux faced much stiffer competition. I'd give the nod to Crosby, but it's not as if the comparisons are completely unjust imhumbleo.

 

[pixburgher66]

Why not? Unfortunately with todays media, comparisons happen all the time (rightly or wrongly). With talk radio being what it is, everybody needs something to talk about, so if there's nothing brewing, just stir something up.

Besides, going on comparisons that are fair or unfair, Giroux is much closer to Crosby than Crosby (Lindros, Stamkos, et al) are to Gretzky. I think Crosby's might have been a tad more impressive due to the length of time missed, but Giroux faced much stiffer competition. I'd give the nod to Crosby, but it's not as if the comparisons are completely unjust imhumbleo.

Oh, I meant the two comebacks. Not the players, go ahead and compare them. That's just.

 

[filosofy29]

Oh, I meant the two comebacks. Not the players, go ahead and compare them. That's just.

I know what you meant. I was just stating that most of the time comparisons aren't fair.....since potential is not quantifiable.

All I'm saying is, it's not like Crosby hadn't laced up skates in 10 months. He had quite a few practices at full speed (not saying practices are the same tempo nor preparation as games). I don't think that it's a totally unfair comparison (Giroux and Crosby's respective comebacks). I thought it was a pretty tame comparison. I mean, Andrew Luck is already the next John Elway (even though their games aren't identical.....but they both went to Stanford )!!!

 

[DChero]

If we can keep the conversation in one thread (and let it end there), I wouldn't mind having the debate.

Crosby's game doesn't consist of just some of the best offensive e production, he's also a shootout and faceoff wizard. Let's also remember that he has been put on the PK from time to time. If the Flyers had Jordan Staal, I doubt Giroux would have the PK time that he does. They're different situations.

Don't get me wrong, Giroux is a top-5 forward, but I don't see him overtaking the guys that have been doing the same things for years. He has the opportunity though.

 

[DChero]

Oh, I meant the two comebacks. Not the players, go ahead and compare them. That's just.

Damnit! I took that the wrong way, then saw this after my post.

Take-backs?

 

[awaz]

If we can keep the conversation in one thread (and let it end there), I wouldn't mind having the debate.

Crosby's game doesn't consist of just some of the best offensive e production, he's also a shootout and faceoff wizard. Let's also remember that he has been put on the PK from time to time. If the Flyers had Jordan Staal, I doubt Giroux would have the PK time that he does. They're different situations.

Don't get me wrong, Giroux is a top-5 forward, but I don't see him overtaking the guys that have been doing the same things for years. He has the opportunity though.

if we're keeping it civil..

i disagree that giroux wouldn't see the PK time he does if the flyers had staal.. the flyers do have talbot and if you watch the flyers, the rookies the flyers have playing on the PK are damn good at it.. read and couturier in particular, but zolniercyzk is no slouch either.. voracek, simmonds, schenn (if he's ever healthy) can all PK too, and hartnell has seen time on the PK when roo went down and was part of their 'third unit' with carter last year.. so the flyers really aren't short on PK ability, but giroux is still out there on the top unit.. crosby isn't a liability defensively, but i do think giroux has him there..

that being said, crosby is still the best in my eyes.. but i think after that its pretty open discussion.. i dont think OV has the 2nd spot anymore.. i think the NHL has figured him out and he needs to adapt.. it wasn't all 'new system', guys started defending is blaze down the left side, pull up, and shoot.. he's still an immense talent, but until he adjusts, i dont think he's the 2nd best anymore

stamkos.. eh.. st louis does a lot for him, but jagr does a lot for giroux and the sedins do a lot for eachother.. but i think the battle for 2nd is between giroux, stamkos, and the sedins.. and given the PK topic, i give the edge to giroux over stamkos.. and i'll be honest i haven't watched enough of the sedins to know their defensive capabilities.. but that's where it stands to me

cros
giroux/sedins/datsyuk
stamkos
OV

edit: shit, forgot datsyuk.. guess he goes w/ giroux and the sedins until someone from the western conference gives me input on the sedin's defensive skill level

 

[SLY]

if we're keeping it civil..

i disagree that giroux wouldn't see the PK time he does if the flyers had staal.. the flyers do have talbot and if you watch the flyers, the rookies the flyers have playing on the PK are damn good at it.. read and couturier in particular, but zolniercyzk is no slouch either.. voracek, simmonds, schenn (if he's ever healthy) can all PK too, and hartnell has seen time on the PK when roo went down and was part of their 'third unit' with carter last year.. so the flyers really aren't short on PK ability, but giroux is still out there on the top unit.. crosby isn't a liability defensively, but i do think giroux has him there..

that being said, crosby is still the best in my eyes.. but i think after that its pretty open discussion.. i dont think OV has the 2nd spot anymore.. i think the NHL has figured him out and he needs to adapt.. it wasn't all 'new system', guys started defending is blaze down the left side, pull up, and shoot.. he's still an immense talent, but until he adjusts, i dont think he's the 2nd best anymore

stamkos.. eh.. st louis does a lot for him, but jagr does a lot for giroux and the sedins do a lot for eachother.. but i think the battle for 2nd is between giroux, stamkos, and the sedins.. and given the PK topic, i give the edge to giroux over stamkos.. and i'll be honest i haven't watched enough of the sedins to know their defensive capabilities.. but that's where it stands to me

cros
giroux/sedins/datsyuk
stamkos
OV

edit: shit, forgot datsyuk.. guess he goes w/ giroux and the sedins until someone from the western conference gives me input on the sedin's defensive skill level

 

[DChero]

if we're keeping it civil..

i disagree that giroux wouldn't see the PK time he does if the flyers had staal.. the flyers do have talbot and if you watch the flyers, the rookies the flyers have playing on the PK are damn good at it.. read and couturier in particular, but zolniercyzk is no slouch either.. voracek, simmonds, schenn (if he's ever healthy) can all PK too, and hartnell has seen time on the PK when roo went down and was part of their 'third unit' with carter last year.. so the flyers really aren't short on PK ability, but giroux is still out there on the top unit.. crosby isn't a liability defensively, but i do think giroux has him there..
Well played, sir. I agree.

that being said, crosby is still the best in my eyes.. but i think after that its pretty open discussion.. i dont think OV has the 2nd spot anymore.. i think the NHL has figured him out and he needs to adapt.. it wasn't all 'new system', guys started defending is blaze down the left side, pull up, and shoot.. he's still an immense talent, but until he adjusts, i dont think he's the 2nd best anymore
What kind of adds to it is that Ovechkin makes a lot of space for other guys. He's a much more complete player now than he was three years ago. We might start splitting hairs over this though.
stamkos.. eh.. st louis does a lot for him, but jagr does a lot for giroux and the sedins do a lot for eachother.. but i think the battle for 2nd is between giroux, stamkos, and the sedins.. and given the PK topic, i give the edge to giroux over stamkos.. and i'll be honest i haven't watched enough of the sedins to know their defensive capabilities.. but that's where it stands to me
The Sedins don't play on the PK really ever. They aren't on the ice really outside of scoring situations, so I agree that it's hard to judge. I really like Stamkos, but I think of St. Louis be the MVP in Tampa. If we're talking about top snipers, Stammer may be at or near the top. Fuck Dallas. The Jagr/Giroux thing is interesting because it says a lot about the amount of energy that Giroux brings. Jagr has some of the best vision in the league, but he doesn't have the body to cash in on it too much. It'll be interesting to see who becomes Giroux's go-to linemate in the years to come.
cros
giroux/sedins/datsyuk
stamkos
OV

edit: shit, forgot datsyuk.. guess he goes w/ giroux and the sedins until someone from the western conference gives me input on the sedin's defensive skill level

I usuaully avoid the bullet-point thing, but it just seemed to fit here. To summarize, I agree for the most-part. Datsyuk is a different animal as he's not relied on by his team to be that elite scoring threat, but he produces anyway.

 

[awaz]

I usuaully avoid the bullet-point thing, but it just seemed to fit here. To summarize, I agree for the most-part. Datsyuk is a different animal as he's not relied on by his team to be that elite scoring threat, but he produces anyway.

well if thats the case on the sedins, then currently (always subject to change of course)

i'll say:

cros
giroux
datsyuk (seems weird to punish a guy for not needing to be that go to guy, but such is the life of a redwing i guess)
sedins
stamkos
OV

i think jagr is having an enormous impact on the young guys on the flyers.. especially giroux and voracek.. jagr moves and defends the puck so well, and i really think its rubbing off on the other guys.. they really seem to be embracing having his presence in the locker room and learning from him as much as they can.. IMO you can't understate the value of having jagr on this team.. touche homer, i didn't think it was a smart move at the time, but now i think its genius

i cant believe i just said that about jagr

 

[flyersfan4706]

If the Flyers had Jordan Staal, I doubt Giroux would have the PK time that he does. They're different situations.

Yes we do, his name is Sean Couturier.

 

[DChero]

well if thats the case on the sedins, then currently (always subject to change of course)

i'll say:

cros
giroux
datsyuk (seems weird to punish a guy for not needing to be that go to guy, but such is the life of a redwing i guess)
sedins
stamkos
OV

i think jagr is having an enormous impact on the young guys on the flyers.. especially giroux and voracek.. jagr moves and defends the puck so well, and i really think its rubbing off on the other guys.. they really seem to be embracing having his presence in the locker room and learning from him as much as they can.. IMO you can't understate the value of having jagr on this team.. touche homer, i didn't think it was a smart move at the time, but now i think its genius

i cant believe i just said that about jagr

I have a general idea of what he brings.

 

[DChero]

Yes we do, his name is Sean Couturier.

Not yet, sir. Jordan has some lofty playoff performances that give him the edge.

(Yeah, I played the Cup card)

 

[flyersfan4706]

Not yet, sir. Jordan has some lofty playoff performances that give him the edge.

(Yeah, I played the Cup card)

Yeah, you played the Cup card.

 

[DChero]

Yeah, you played the Cup card.

Haha! But to be serious, there are a lot of third line-caliber centers in the league, but not many can fill the number one spot the way he had done.

 

[KennyBanyeah]

I won't even put Crosby as the best in the game any more. He simply hasn't played enough in the last 12 months. I have little doubt that if he comes back healthy he'll be vying for that moniker in short order.

The best overall forwards right now (meaning this year), IMO, are:

1. Toews
2. Giroux
3. Malkin
4. Datsyuk
5. H. Sedin
6. Hossa
7. Backstrom
8. D. Sedin
9. Stamkos
10. Spezza

All of those guys can take over a game on the offensive end and bring other important attributes to the ice.

 

[flyersfan4706]

Haha! But to be serious, there are a lot of third line-caliber centers in the league, but not many can fill the number one spot the way he had done.

I hate you guys for your centers. Jordan is probably my favorite Staal, so it pisses me off to see him on the Penguins' 3rd line ... :nonod:

 

[BigBadDup]

"best player" debates are great in this day and age. There is no Gretzky nor Lemieux that is far and away in a class of their own. Nobody is even close. Ever since Jagr won back to back Art Rosses over a decade ago there hasn't been anybody to lead the league in scoring twice. In that same timeframe only OV has multiple Harts and Ted Lindsays....but no postseason success to speak of.