Game Thread: G9 4-2-2 Kings @ TO 10/31/23

[PuckinUgly57]

Happy Halloween, looks like I'll be able to watch this one as football is over and softball is canceled tonight for the girls because of Halloween.

Should be a good matchup, it'll be on national TV (ESPN I think) so a good opportunity for the Kings to get some EC press. No lineup changes expected from Saturday but JAD and Bjornfot are on the trip in case coach decides to change things up. Talbot expected in goal again.

Interestingly this is Busters first trip to TO, being from Ontario and his home province. He was injured and sick in the 2022 and 2021 trips here and didn't go, apparently he will have about 50 family and friends in attendance. Go put on a show son, don't make me flame you in this thread. Moore and Grundstrom also revisiting their original organizations. Wonder if we will have a Muzzin sighting from the suite.

Prediction: Fiala 2 goals, Kempe finally gets on the board. 5-3 Kings win. TO goes on a "trade everyone" tirade by midnight and the planned Cup parade canceled by 9am tomorrow.

Let's Go Kings!

 

[LAKINGSFAN]

I have a feeling that Buster will not only score, but it will be a skilled goal. Hopefully it will be the begining of his confidence rising. I really hope I am right!!
I think the PLD line will have a strong game and Talbot will as well.

 

[PuckinUgly57]

Hope you're right man. I honestly don't like piling on him, I want him to succeed. But compared to his 2020 peers he hasn't accomplished much it's absolutely brings up concerns close to 4 years after he was drafted.

I was very impressed with his goal, he was in the right place, right time, went to the net, got positioning and Kaliyev gave him a perfect feed. Well done my Whipping Boys, I want to be proven wrong night after night after plays like that because it only benefits the Kings. You guys know me, I don't have a "favorite King", I pull for the sweater.

I hope the PLD line has a big impact tonight too, but we need to see Kempe and Fiala getting on the board more while still being defensively effective. Kempe no worries, he is a solid 200' player. Fiala...eh he needs support from his linemates. Just don't do anything Fiala tonight in that sense.

 

[histkng23]

Was able to watch the beginning of the 2nd for about 5 minutes....Toronto was controlling the play (it seemed) at the time. Announcers were pointing that out as well, after what they said was a clear advantage the Kings had in the first period.

All that was starting to balance back out, until Fiala did a "Fiala" and took a trip to the box (how many times is he going to do that before he "figures" it out????), which coincided with my family arriving at one of my daughter's soccer teammate's Halloween party, so didn't get to watch the rest of the game...will download and watch tomorrow.

Looked like a solid effort all in all though. Nice start to the roadie...

 

[LAKINGSFAN]

I am more concerned with Kaliev than I am with Byfield. Although there are times when Byfield is nonexistant Kaliev has non handles whatsoever. I have seen time after time he receives a pass only to loose the puck when trying to go along the boards or around someone. He is just a shooter. Put him at the top of the dots on the power play and let him shoot. Thats it!! At least Byfield has some speed and has some handles. The more I see him play, the more it looks like he has a confidence problem and may be trying too hard. At this point I would want Lafferiere (sp?) over Kaliev

 

[PuckinUgly57]

All that was starting to balance back out, until Fiala did a "Fiala" and took a trip to the box (how many times is he going to do that before he "figures" it out????),

You know he is good for at least one Fiala a game - it'll be a trip, slash or roughing call in the offensive zone.

Have to get him going, the 900 assists are nice but he has to put some pucks in the net. As for his Fialas, he is what he is - don't think that'll be changing any time soon.

 

[PuckinUgly57]

I am more concerned with Kaliev than I am with Byfield. Although there are times when Byfield is nonexistant Kaliev has non handles whatsoever. I have seen time after time he receives a pass only to loose the puck when trying to go along the boards or around someone. He is just a shooter. Put him at the top of the dots on the power play and let him shoot. Thats it!! At least Byfield has some speed and has some handles. The more I see him play, the more it looks like he has a confidence problem and may be trying too hard. At this point I would want Lafferiere (sp?) over Kaliev

I am but I'm not. Kaliyev was a 2nd round pick, albeit a high one. My expectations for him aren't anywhere remotely close to what mine are for Buster and that's simply because of draft position. Is it fair? Maybe not, but it's true. Same reason why I'm extremely disappointed in Bjornfot, he was a 22nd overall and should have been a difference maker. You set foundations with 1st round picks, 2nd and lower you get complementary pieces. Not how its worked out for LA in a long time unfortunately.

Back to Arty Retardy, he's looking more and more like a left handed Martin Frk. Lethal shot but that's about it. He doesn't move the needle much. You can't use a roster spot on a guy like that in a cap world with escalating salaries and being one dimensional. Guys like him are a dime a dozen, he's been elevated to L2 as well and is still not noticeable most nights.

Laferriere has been the pleasant surprise, he drives the net, makes things happen. His reverse pass to PLD last night was indicative of how his mind thinks, how he processes the game and using his linemates. PLD was crashing the net and it was a slick play, one we've seen 1000x over but the awareness of Laferriere being a first year player was impressive. I don't think PLD was ready for it because had he elevated his shot that's another goal. All this from a 3rd round 2020 pick. That's great value if he continues this trajectory.

I don't see things like that with Kaliyev, just a dude who waits for cross seam passes to hammer home a one timer...ala Martin Frk. I think they should probably swap out 34 and 78 but they won't just yet. With Arvidsson out and where Kaliyev is in his development he needs a consistent shot on L2, but Laferriere seems like a better fit there since some of his game is like Arvidsson's.

Matter of time.

 

[Kings4OT]

In that arty draft we also took Turcotte over cozins, zegras and even boldy to name a few, im more concerned with that than i am of retardy panning out. Thats 2 scoring 22 y/o C that somehow figured it out over Buster who is playing with better talent.

 

[Kings4OT]

I am but I'm not. Kaliyev was a 2nd round pick, albeit a high one. My expectations for him aren't anywhere remotely close to what mine are for Buster and that's simply because of draft position. Is it fair? Maybe not, but it's true. Same reason why I'm extremely disappointed in Bjornfot, he was a 22nd overall and should have been a difference maker. You set foundations with 1st round picks, 2nd and lower you get complementary pieces. Not how its worked out for LA in a long time unfortunately.

Back to Arty Retardy, he's looking more and more like a left handed Martin Frk. Lethal shot but that's about it. He doesn't move the needle much. You can't use a roster spot on a guy like that in a cap world with escalating salaries and being one dimensional. Guys like him are a dime a dozen, he's been elevated to L2 as well and is still not noticeable most nights.

Laferriere has been the pleasant surprise, he drives the net, makes things happen. His reverse pass to PLD last night was indicative of how his mind thinks, how he processes the game and using his linemates. PLD was crashing the net and it was a slick play, one we've seen 1000x over but the awareness of Laferriere being a first year player was impressive. I don't think PLD was ready for it because had he elevated his shot that's another goal. All this from a 3rd round 2020 pick. That's great value if he continues this trajectory.

I don't see things like that with Kaliyev, just a dude who waits for cross seam passes to hammer home a one timer...ala Martin Frk. I think they should probably swap out 34 and 78 but they won't just yet. With Arvidsson out and where Kaliyev is in his development he needs a consistent shot on L2, but Laferriere seems like a better fit there since some of his game is like Arvidsson's.

Matter of time.

You ninjad me while i was typing

 

[Kings4OT]

Its not like any of us want Buster to fail, this is our team to cheer for. I think its time to move him or take "that dreaded pressure" off him and move him down the lineup to figure out his game 3rd/4th line. If his brain cant handle that, he shouldnt be in NHL

 

[PuckinUgly57]

Its not like any of us want Buster to fail, this is our team to cheer for. I think its time to move him or take "that dreaded pressure" off him and move him down the lineup to figure out his game 3rd/4th line. If his brain cant handle that, he shouldnt be in NHL

100%.

I don't want him to fail, it only helps LA if he succeeds. But the tangible results so far have been underwhelming compared to a lot of his 2020 peers. Even Laferriere, a 3rd round pick, seems to be making his mark already. You can't do better being a 2OA? Come on man.

My 3 options for him at this point are:
- off the top line, you're getting quality minutes with 2 top flight NHLers and not producing
- B6 role until he "figures it out"
- a year in Ontario to understand what is expected of him, additional training so to speak without said pressure on him

If none of those work by next summer, it's seriously time to consider moving him. The Tage Thompson comparison fails to mention he was traded not even 2 years after being drafted (2018). The Blues needed a 1C and O'Reilly made his "loser mentality" comments being stuck in Buffalo so the Blues rolled the dice.

It paid off, they won the Cup the following June in 2019. Thompson still didn't produce for 4 more years in Buffalo until his breakout in 2022. The timeline didn't match up for the Blues, they had all the pieces as is and it really helped Binnington went on that 6 month heater after being dead last in the NHL on 1/1/19. Think the Blues regret that trade? I severely doubt it considering how it all worked out and Thompson took 6 years to even have a decent season.

Looking at the Kings timeline to win, it's a very similar situation. They have a lot of the pieces, capped out and Busters lack of progression just doesn't line up. By the time he is 24 (Thompson's break out year) and assuming he miraculously becomes Thompson 2.0, the window will have passed for not only Kopitar and Doughty but also Dunno, Kempe and others. Those 4 will be gone for certain - maybe not Kempe but he will be on the other side of 30.

Plenty of articles out there that Buster needs to produce this season pretty much from everyone in the NHL, these are the reasons why if you dig deeper and connect the dots. We are 1/8 of the way through the season and he just needs to start producing.

 

[Kings4OT]

I am more concerned with Kaliev than I am with Byfield.

Just to give context, Kaliyev pick only a year sooner has 2 seasons each with as many points as Buster has for a career playing on the top line.....points arent the end all as you have suggested and i dont discount or disagree.....but Buster is a 2OA, that hurts

 

[PuckinUgly57]

That's why I'm not as concerned with Kaliyev; he was never given consistent minutes with guys like Kopitar and Kempe. He's been elevated this season, his first with legitimate T6 minutes, so I'm willing to give him a minute. I still don't see much besides Frk V2.0 but he deserves a chance to show he belongs on that line.

Buster, played a half season on L1 and again to start this season - if he doesn't score this season it sets the Kings back a bunch and they have a problem on their hands, as if being capped out and having question marks around goaltending isn't enough.

But knowing Blake, he will just move him for another T3 winger or goaltending. The issue there is that it costs additional assets and more cap space. Its so important to have your 1st round picks hit, you essentially control them for 2 contracts and get great value out of them. Under Blake that has not happened which is why he keeps making trades and UFA signings.

 

[LAKINGSFAN]

That's why I'm not as concerned with Kaliyev; he was never given consistent minutes with guys like Kopitar and Kempe. He's been elevated this season, his first with legitimate T6 minutes, so I'm willing to give him a minute. I still don't see much besides Frk V2.0 but he deserves a chance to show he belongs on that line.

Buster, played a half season on L1 and again to start this season - if he doesn't score this season it sets the Kings back a bunch and they have a problem on their hands, as if being capped out and having question marks around goaltending isn't enough.

But knowing Blake, he will just move him for another T3 winger or goaltending. The issue there is that it costs additional assets and more cap space. Its so important to have your 1st round picks hit, you essentially control them for 2 contracts and get great value out of them. Under Blake that has not happened which is why he keeps making trades and UFA signings.

I guess my point is that I really dont see Kaliyev being anything more that what he is. Unless I am missing something, he has absolutely no handles whatsoever. His goal the other night was nice, but he didnt have to stickhandle at all. Just shoot. As you mentioned, there is no room for a player that just shoots on the PP. I think he can be moved when Arvy gets back if Blake doesnt trade Arvy as well.

Buster on the other hand, I do see upside (hopefully its not through rose colored glasses). Looking back, I do think he was overrated by just about everyone his draft year, but he still has a lot of potential and has shown brief flashes.

 

[PuckinUgly57]

I guess my point is that I really dont see Kaliyev being anything more that what he is. Unless I am missing something, he has absolutely no handles whatsoever. His goal the other night was nice, but he didnt have to stickhandle at all. Just shoot. As you mentioned, there is no room for a player that just shoots on the PP. I think he can be moved when Arvy gets back if Blake doesnt trade Arvy as well.

I see what you're saying, if you look at his goal - and it was a snipe for sure - he didn't handle the pass cleanly at all. Had to corral it, settle and shoot. He got lucky that happened, normally that lane is shut down in the time it took him to get the puck under control. It was literally a perfect pass onto his tape so that's something that did indeed jump out at me.

A concern however in regards to Arvidsson, apart from Laferriere he is the only winger besides HOS with a RH shot (Kempe, Byfield, Arty Retardy, Fiala, Moore, Grundstrom - all LH shots). The Kings need a few of those. I personally feel this is Arvidsson's last season in LA no matter how it plays out, he has durability issues, makes $4.25 million, 30+, last year of contract. He may be back on a 1-2 year deal at a considerably less AAV, but Laferriere is looking like he will take a RW spot permanently soon which makes him odd man out. But being a workhorse and a RH shot is an advantage for him.

But if the Kings are in a good spot come TDL, I expect Arvidsson to return, finish out the season and walk on July 1.

Buster on the other hand, I do see upside (hopefully its not through rose colored glasses). Looking back, I do think he was overrated by just about everyone his draft year, but he still has a lot of potential and has shown brief flashes.

He has his moments, I will not deny that. I think the TO game was his best to date. That was said earlier in the season when.he didn't produce a point in that game though, so there's that too.

I think the Kings are giving him shots to finally produce but also praising him - publicly or not - to not reduce his value as a potential trade chip next summer. I really hope this guy is understanding how important of a season this is for not only him but for LA.

I too hope he didn't "roll in his jizz" (where is Wup these days?) on Tuesday and at the very least shows he was worthy of going right where Stutzle went.

In every 2020 redraft I've read, he has dropped to between 7-10. If he f**ks the dog tonight, it'll be embarrassing.

 

[LAKINGSFAN]

I see what you're saying, if you look at his goal - and it was a snipe for sure - he didn't handle the pass cleanly at all. Had to corral it, settle and shoot. He got lucky that happened, normally that lane is shut down in the time it took him to get the puck under control. It was literally a perfect pass onto his tape so that's something that did indeed jump out at me.

A concern however in regards to Arvidsson, apart from Laferriere he is the only winger besides HOS with a RH shot (Kempe, Byfield, Arty Retardy, Fiala, Moore, Grundstrom - all LH shots). The Kings need a few of those. I personally feel this is Arvidsson's last season in LA no matter how it plays out, he has durability issues, makes $4.25 million, 30+, last year of contract. He may be back on a 1-2 year deal at a considerably less AAV, but Laferriere is looking like he will take a RW spot permanently soon which makes him odd man out. But being a workhorse and a RH shot is an advantage for him.

But if the Kings are in a good spot come TDL, I expect Arvidsson to return, finish out the season and walk on July 1.



He has his moments, I will not deny that. I think the TO game was his best to date. That was said earlier in the season when.he didn't produce a point in that game though, so there's that too.

I think the Kings are giving him shots to finally produce but also praising him - publicly or not - to not reduce his value as a potential trade chip next summer. I really hope this guy is understanding how important of a season this is for not only him but for LA.

I too hope he didn't "roll in his jizz" (where is Wup these days?) on Tuesday and at the very least shows he was worthy of going right where Stutzle went.

In every 2020 redraft I've read, he has dropped to between 7-10. If he f**ks the dog tonight, it'll be embarrassing.

I am wondering if there was a big enough sample size for the 2020 draft. I rememeber thinking that due to covid and the kids really not getting a lot of playing time how much the scouts would really know about a 18yo kid. I will admit that that I did want to draft QB based on what I was reading about him. He was a center that was big and fast. I figured those were harder to find than a sniper LW like Stutzle. Also, to your point the Kings scouts have not hit on much if any in quite a while. I remember being okay with taking THE LEGEND with the first pick. I thought it was a high risk high reward pick and I think he could turn out to be a solid pro, just not with the Kings. He was also a key piece of the PLD trade, so I think it worked out fine.