Fuck you Kelly!!!

[jjc2009]

didn't he fumble and lose twice though?

Not in the UVA game which is when I posted that. He fumbled and lost one on the second possession in the second half last night.

 

[redseat]

Not in the UVA game which is when I posted that. He fumbled and lost one on the second possession in the second half last night.

oh, sorry about that, Thought you were talking about last night and I could have sworn he fumbled twice.. Though ND did fumble a lot yesterday, which is why they lost imo. Well and yes horrible coaching

 

[whywork2]

Accepting that injuries are a part of the game, at what point to the law of averages even out?

Last year, we lost the key piece of our defense, our MLB, who while not the most athletic guy out there, knows how to line up in Van Gorder's defensee (apparently he's the only one). Then we lose Day, then we lose Jarron Jones, then we lose for a time Jay Hayes. We already lost a key DL and key CB due to academic suspensions and a steady, if not world beater WR.

This year, we lose J. Jones, again, our number one RB, our number 1 QB. Honestly, no team can take that many hits and survive. It used to be a depth problem, which was finally fixed, if not with 5* players, with capable guys that can fill out an 85 man roster. Now that has taken a hit.

Its frustrating, because coaches can't control injuries. What is frustrating is that there was no need, none to force Zaire up the middle like that. The two times he did it before I cringed. When Zaire broke one and then smartly got out of bounds I breathed a sigh of relief. But I recall remarking out loud that he's gonna get him killed if he keeps doing that. You want to use that play. Fine. It could have waited until after USC, especially against the team he was playing.

On top of that, Kelly's shit game calls continue. The between the tackles plays on 3rd and short need to change, period. They get stuff far too many times, and while the offense looks great between the 20s it still sucks in the RZ. I think Kelly's just too damn predictable, and has been since the NC game (recall the Alabama players saying they knew exactly what was coming with him, and our defensive alignments with Mr. Milquetoast, Bob Diaco). Every post-game press conference is the same. We have to get better in the RZ. You've been running the same damn plays for 6 years. Maybe its not the lack of excution there Brian.

I have been disappointed with wins before, but this win just felt devastating. Kizer's last minute heroics should be celebrated, but it just feels so wrong that we were ever in that position. And the way the defense didn't respond after Zaire got hurt was really depressing. It seemed as if they gave up, like the end of last year. If I saw my starting QB get injured, as a defender, I'd want to go out and hit someone really hard after that. Instead, they just let them go right down the field.

We have a wide-out at runningback, while I know you have to run inside here and there we do it way too often considering how big our no. runningback is. They have to get him the ball more in the flat and let his elusiveness come into play. I loved that pass to him last night down the right flat. Flip it out to him, watch him beat the linebacker and then run away from everyone. We can't just keep on banging it up inside all the time.

As far as Kelly goes I'm not down on him like most of my fellow posters here. It's pretty hard for a coach to prevent his players from fumbling , that's is on them. Coaching might help to some small extent but let's not get carried away. I didn't care for the last play call. I would have preferred to get Kizer on the edge and have some option instead of banging a run off tackle. I honestly believe that's where we miss Folston and Bryant, I think they were a little tougher to bring down. Procise just doesn't fit that bill as a slam it in the middle for a yard guy.

One other note, Robinson had a tough game. Made some important misses. So did some of our other receivers. Thought the O-line played subpar. Was proud of the way the defense stood tall and fought all night long. Also thought Kizer played particularly well given the circumstances. I for one am not putting this loss on the coach.

 

[jjc2009]

oh, sorry about that, Thought you were talking about last night and I could have sworn he fumbled twice.. Though ND did fumble a lot yesterday, which is why they lost imo. Well and yes horrible coaching

No problem. In light of last nights coaching job this thread got revived. Can't overcome a minus 3 turnover margin.

 

[redseat]

No problem. In light of last nights coaching job this thread got revived. Can't overcome a minus 3 turnover margin.

Yeah I see that now. Haha... I think they could have depending upon where those turn-overs occurred.

 

[jjc2009]

We have a wide-out at runningback, while I know you have to run inside here and there we do it way too often considering how big our no. runningback is. They have to get him the ball more in the flat and let his elusiveness come into play. I loved that pass to him last night down the right flat. Flip it out to him, watch him beat the linebacker and then run away from everyone. We can't just keep on banging it up inside all the time.

As far as Kelly goes I'm not down on him like most of my fellow posters here. It's pretty hard for a coach to prevent his players from fumbling , that's is on them. Coaching might help to some small extent but let's not get carried away. I didn't care for the last play call. I would have preferred to get Kizer on the edge and have some option instead of banging a run off tackle. I honestly believe that's where we miss Folston and Bryant, I think they were a little tougher to bring down. Procise just doesn't fit that bill as a slam it in the middle for a yard guy.

One other note, Robinson had a tough game. Made some important misses. So did some of our other receivers. Thought the O-line played subpar. Was proud of the way the defense stood tall and fought all night long. Also thought Kizer played particularly well given the circumstances. I for one am not putting this loss on the coach.

We discussed this on the game thread. I agree that the fumbles and lack of execution are on the players. I just think offensive adjustments came too slow and the screwing around with the 2pt conversion nonsense was terrible and Kelly trying to outfox conventional wisdom.

I think it was 6 drops by 5 different receivers was the stat shown at one point.

 

[purguy12]

We discussed this on the game thread. I agree that the fumbles and lack of execution are on the players. I just think offensive adjustments came too slow and the screwing around with the 2pt conversion nonsense was terrible and Kelly trying to outfox conventional wisdom.

I think it was 6 drops by 5 different receivers was the stat shown at one point.

I agree Kelly game calling starting rolling to late in the game. The 1st 3 Q's he was way too conservative. ran the ball 70-75% of the time on 1st down. Ran the ball 2 out 3 plays 65% of the time. We weren't running well. When we open up the pass late in the game the Run game started to open up a little. Usually we get mad at Kelly for not running the ball and this time he ran too much.

Like someone said I don't hate Kelly and I do believe in him. Like I said He is our best coach since Lou but he gets in his own way some times. He really needs to let Sanford run the offense.

My Order in what cost us the game:
1)Kelly- play calling
2)Fumbles- 4 of them and 2 on special teams(one by a Kicker, just sad.)
3)WR's- Way too many drops and way too many on game changing plays. 2 Scores and 2 Big time 1st downs with big yardage, drop of a 2pt conversion.
4)Oline Run blocking
5)Special teams
6)Start of the game by the D. They weren't ready. Once they got rolling they dominated Clemson O.

 

[purguy12]

I just watched the presser again. I do want to explain that 2pt conversion play. I understand the thinking we weren't scoring so he wanted to make it a 10pt game. but my issue is u don't do it until that next TD. that is my Big issue with the call. i understanding the thinking a the way the game was going but u don't do it until u have to.

 

[KnuteRoc]

So I just saw the CSN article about the loss.

Here's the only quote from the article in which Kelly discusses anything about the loss:

“If you told me four times, I would’ve told you that we’re going to lose,” Kelly said. “You wouldn’t have to be a genius to figure that out. We turned the ball over four times and we lost.”

Again I'll reiterate. Despite everything, the turnovers, the slow adjustments, the penalties, and maybe even some sort of tipping of their plays as expressed by some Clemson players... We only needed to kick an XP to tie had we kicked the XP prior. That's it. We'd have at least been playing in OT.

Now on the one hand... it shows a weakness of Kelly's. One that I think is being echoed in the rankings. If any fairly objective voter watched that game, what would they have thought? Boneheaded coach making some iffy calls, players making simple mental errors, play calling that is working right into the defense.

Now on the other hand... it shows a lot of resilience by this group of young men. It shows that they can be a quick-strike team and it shows that they can comeback from a pretty large deficit. That's some pretty positive things, the only negative here is; with that kind of capability, one has to wonder why they may not find themselves ahead enough in games, or put opponents away that they can, or should.

 

[purguy12]

In no way this team should of fell so much in the Polls. I don't think Clemson coached a good game. he was coaching scared in that 2nd half.

 

[KnuteRoc]

I'm with you on the Poll bigguy, but you know there's bias, so there's no sense in looking at it in another other way except to say: it's not based on logic, or fairness. It's a beauty contest and Irish men, well, they're not exactly the most handsome.

 

[poewelch84]

If the coaches started using the short passing game sooner the game would have been won because Notre Dame would have scored more points down the stretch and not need to 2 pt conversion to tie the game. They were loading the box so much that they were basically open after 6 yards just keep working your way down the field until they make a change they start running the ball, how they didn't see this is beyond me.

 

[poewelch84]

So I just saw the CSN article about the loss.

Here's the only quote from the article in which Kelly discusses anything about the loss:

“If you told me four times, I would’ve told you that we’re going to lose,” Kelly said. “You wouldn’t have to be a genius to figure that out. We turned the ball over four times and we lost.”

Again I'll reiterate. Despite everything, the turnovers, the slow adjustments, the penalties, and maybe even some sort of tipping of their plays as expressed by some Clemson players... We only needed to kick an XP to tie had we kicked the XP prior. That's it. We'd have at least been playing in OT.

Now on the one hand... it shows a weakness of Kelly's. One that I think is being echoed in the rankings. If any fairly objective voter watched that game, what would they have thought? Boneheaded coach making some iffy calls, players making simple mental errors, play calling that is working right into the defense.

Now on the other hand... it shows a lot of resilience by this group of young men. It shows that they can be a quick-strike team and it shows that they can comeback from a pretty large deficit. That's some pretty positive things, the only negative here is; with that kind of capability, one has to wonder why they may not find themselves ahead enough in games, or put opponents away that they can, or should.

coaching and play calling, had Kelly turned to the passing game earlier this would have been a different game even with the WR's dropping the ball, six drops in that weather probably isn't that bad even if some were terrible drops.

 

[idseer]

you're all so concerned about how much they fell. do you seriously think this was a top 6 team going into the game? if so, you are drinking too much kool-aid.

 

[poewelch84]

you're all so concerned about how much they fell. do you seriously think this was a top 6 team going into the game? if so, you are drinking too much kool-aid.

I think they have the talent to be in the conversation for the playoffs, but I don't know that they would get there. I guess I haven't seen that much from Michigan State or Ohio State to show they are top 6 teams. I don't think that there is 14 teams better than them in the country.

 

[purguy12]

coaching and play calling, had Kelly turned to the passing game earlier this would have been a different game even with the WR's dropping the ball, six drops in that weather probably isn't that bad even if some were terrible drops.

U ever thought we would be saying this about Kelly that he should of passed the ball more. We usually complain that he doesn't run the ball enough. On this case after that 1st Q he should of saw that they were stacking the box and should went to the passing game.

 

[podsox]

you're all so concerned about how much they fell. do you seriously think this was a top 6 team going into the game? if so, you are drinking too much kool-aid.

I actually do. this yr it is an open field and nd has strong lines on both sides of the ball. it just sucks that our coach continues to put the team in bad situations. the same guy who throws the ball too much all the time decides to pound the rock when it isn't working. he burns a timeout and goes for 2 way too fucking early in the game. he cant get out of his own way. he made the same mistake 3 weeks ago against Virginia.

 

[idseer]

I actually do. this yr it is an open field and nd has strong lines on both sides of the ball. it just sucks that our coach continues to put the team in bad situations. the same guy who throws the ball too much all the time decides to pound the rock when it isn't working. he burns a timeout and goes for 2 way too fucking early in the game. he cant get out of his own way. he made the same mistake 3 weeks ago against Virginia.

part of being rated is how the coach coaches. if you have a guy who sabotages the team with his stupidity then the team is only as strong as that weak link.

if we're just saying here that we think they "can" be a top rated team, well then, i'll wager 25/30 other team's fans feel the exact same way.

 

[CreepCreep2014]

Ugh...still cannot get this game out of my head. Sure, fumbles were a major problem, but the defense bailed the offense out on that. Def was terrible in the 1st quarter, then showed the F up the rest of the game. Big props to BVG for making an adjustment and getting things on the right path. This defense still bothers me. I thought are strength was the LB and CB/S core? When was the last time a CB made a big play? All I see is them turning and running after guys. IDK, cannot complain to much about the def, they played their balls off, signs of a maturing defense in my mind..

BUT.....BK is still the worse in game coach I have ever seen. Nothing over the middle of the field again. Passes were to the outside or bombs down the field. He kept running that ball up the middle. I mean WTF everyone in the world could see they were stacking the box to stop CJ, yet we kept doing it, then we do it with Kizer...We trying to get him hurt too. Nothing over the middle. TE U, please! Why are these guys not getting looks? Why, because it is an all or nothing offense. 3rd and short, throw it deep. 3rd and short, throw a shitty pass to the sidelines that is under thrown or stopped for no gain. Same fucking offense week in and week out.....Do we know how to play action pass?? Seriously?? Do we?? Here is one BK. Fake the hand off to the RB and dump it to the TE in the middle of the field. Jones should be a match-up nightmare for LB, but he is not used..Robinson has not played all yr, but here ya go kid...hit the field in the rain storm and see what you can do with a new QB that you have not played with much all season. Good luck!!

NOW my biggest issue and disappointment...the OL. Holly shit! I thought these guys were one of the top 3 OL in country, man was I wrong. This was a game they were suppose to show up and man handle Clemson, nope. Got beat all game. Stupid penalties. I was so disappointed in that group. It was suppose to ND strongest part of the team.

I keep seeing people telling ND to not worry, it's not the computer system anymore. Please...you realize 90% on the board has an ax to grind or flat out hates ND? Look what happened last yr when we lost to FSU at home. Any reason to knock ND way down, they will....

"I want my practices to be harder than the game, the game should be easy"

 

[KnuteRoc]

U ever thought we would be saying this about Kelly that he should of passed the ball more. We usually complain that he doesn't run the ball enough. On this case after that 1st Q he should of saw that they were stacking the box and should went to the passing game.

Well to be fair, I predicted that we'd have a strong game in the running department but Veneble's gameplan was to not come down on the RB on the read-option and force Kizer to give it, which I saw Detroit do some tonight.

This illustrates the problem I have with our running of the read-option. It does require a sturdy QB along with proper reads, which can be an iffy exercise because you can mask a lot of things defensively, but as well it requires the Defense to hold the edge so that the QB isn't inclined to keep it, which funnels that run right where you want it to go, into the teeth of your front.

Because we have a serious issue in depth at QB now, it makes it hard to run it effectively by allowing Kizer to keep, because they're at least smart enough to know that doing that X times a game isn't the smartest thing to do. That compounds the problem with the running game to a smart D-coordinator. I'd much rather see some Spread with 3 WRs and a TE and put that TE in motion and have him act as a FB with a lead block or at least a block that allows our RBs to then pick a possibly likelier hole to go through.

I'm curious if a lot of teams will start using that tactic more against us.

For IdSeer: Yes I do think we're top 15. I think what the boys accomplished despite the stack of mistakes made by both coaches and players is a great example of why we are within the top 15. Most times with 4 turnovers and being down 21-3 going into the 4th quarter, you've got no reasonable shot at victory. We'll also give some credit to Swinney on that too, he played way conservative in the second half, they very well could've put us away if they'd kept passing a little more too.

I don't buy the idea that Kicking issues in the rain was the reasoning behind not kicking the XP and going for two. Yoon made a nice FG to put the first points up that was longer than an XP would be. I think coach panicked there. Which is funny in a way, once he shifted to passing and exploiting what was being given, the TDs were coming in short order and could even be said to be in bunches!

Still a sore loss, but it'll serve to develop some character. Or something like that anyway.