Feb 3 - AP and Coaches Polls

[Red_Alert]

Kinda looks like Creighton got the better end of the deal with Dana Altman leaving for Oregon, no?

 

[rmilia1]

100% agreed. I don't think it's a show of strength this year though, it's a show of mediocrity. The conference simply lost too much talent last year. Aside from MSU, UM, and Iowa the B1G is extremely mediocre and every loss is a bad loss imo.

Luckily the way the selection committee looks at it, there are currently no bad losses to be had in the B10 UNLESS you lose to Purdue. I dont disagree with what you are saying that much but I do think that there is something to be said for all your teams being capable if they are not actually really good. The B10 has 9 teams in the top 68 in the RPI, that means if you literally just took the 68 best teams in the country to the tourney the B10 would have 9 of those teams. No other league has more than 6. If that is "mediocre" then so be it. Its still better than other leagues and more competitive on a night in night out basis.

 

[CatsTopPac]

Luckily the way the selection committee looks at it, there are currently no bad losses to be had in the B10 UNLESS you lose to Purdue. I dont disagree with what you are saying that much but I do think that there is something to be said for all your teams being capable if they are not actually really good. The B10 has 9 teams in the top 68 in the RPI, that means if you literally just took the 68 best teams in the country to the tourney the B10 would have 9 of those teams. No other league has more than 6. If that is "mediocre" then so be it. Its still better than other leagues and more competitive on a night in night out basis.

Pac has 7 in the RPI top 50. Still a valid point though, most of the B1G can win a game on any given night against any solid team.

 

[rmilia1]

Pac has 7 in the RPI top 50. Still a valid point though, most of the B1G can win a game on any given night against any solid team.

Damnit, good call Cats. Missed Stanford. 7 for the P12.

 

[TexasExes98]

OSU has lost to Iowa, @MSU, PSU, @ Minnesota and @ Nebraska. You can make a case that only the home loss vs PSU is really a questionable loss ( hell even that one isnt TERRIBLE as PSU is in the Top 100 RPI ) The reality is there is not one easy night in the B10. The league may not be LOADED at the top but every single team in the league is capable of beating you on any given night. ALL OF THEM. Thats the only league in the country that can say that IMO.

GMAB, if you're losing to Nebraska or PSU in basketball, that means you suck. Doesn't mean your conference is tough. NU and PSU would get rolled in the Big 12......Oh, and for the record, I'm not saying the B1G is weak by any means, I'm just saying let's not use NU and PSU as a way of measuring the strength of the conference.

 

[rmilia1]

GMAB, if you're losing to Nebraska or PSU in basketball, that means you suck. Doesn't mean your conference is tough. NU and PSU would get rolled in the Big 12......Oh, and for the record, I'm not saying the B1G is weak by any means, I'm just saying let's not use NU and PSU as a way of measuring the strength of the conference.

Nebraska and psu arent great but they are considerably better than the bottom of other leagurs. Thats my point. Im not saying they are capable of winning other leagues but they are far far superior to the bottom of yhe b12, p12, acc, sec, be, aac etc

 

[CatsTopPac]

Nebraska and psu arent great but they are considerably better than the bottom of other leagurs. Thats my point. Im not saying they are capable of winning other leagues but they are far far superior to the bottom of yhe b12, p12, acc, sec, be, aac etc

I agree. When there isn't a single team in the conference that has a losing record, that's not only impressive, it's dangerous for the rest of the teams that are tourney bound. To me, that spells; no nights off.

 

[dcZONAfan]

Nebraska and psu arent great but they are considerably better than the bottom of other leagurs. Thats my point. Im not saying they are capable of winning other leagues but they are far far superior to the bottom of yhe b12, p12, acc, sec, be, aac etc

cmon dude PSU has one "quality" win this season. that win is against Ohio State.....

they have played half the Ivy League, i think...and lost to some of them. that part of your argument is pretty bad.

and before BIG play, nebraska had 0 quality wins. ZERO. Their first "quality" win, Ohio State. I think your'e getting the theme here. So this is leaning more towards showing that the middle of the BIG is extremely average.

 

[rmilia1]

cmon dude PSU has one "quality" win this season. that win is against Ohio State.....

they have played half the Ivy League, i think...and lost to some of them. that part of your argument is pretty bad.

and before BIG play, nebraska had 0 quality wins. ZERO. Their first "quality" win, Ohio State. I think your'e getting the theme here. So this is leaning more towards showing that the middle of the BIG is extremely average.

You misunderstand dc, not saying they are good. Just that they are better than the bottom of other leagues. Reality is that the bottom half of the B10 is 12-5 vs other major conferences bottom half teams. Thats pretty telling. Just a better league at the bottom than other leagues. Makes it tougher night in and night out

 

[TrollyMcTroller]

Yeah, the B1G is tough on the top teams right now. The bottom of the league is filled with the sort of teams you should beat 7 out of 10 times on a neutral court... Play enough of those and you're bound to drop a few. And if your schedule has you playing more of those teams on the road, then you might end up with a team good team that just went .500 against the bottom half of the conference.

 

[dcZONAfan]

You misunderstand dc, not saying they are good. Just that they are better than the bottom of other leagues. Reality is that the bottom half of the B10 is 12-5 vs other major conferences bottom half teams. Thats pretty telling. Just a better league at the bottom than other leagues. Makes it tougher night in and night out

i'm just saying that if you think they are far superior than the bottom of other leagues because they have a few wins against your league, you are assuming that those wins count as quality when there is a chance that a team like OSU is simply not good. i just don't think that makes them far and away better than the bottom of the pac, big 12, and even ACC. a 12-11 team is 4th in your conference. I think Illinois, Penn St, Purdue, Nebraska, Northwestern, and maybe even Indiana would be sitting at the bottom of any conference, so for that reason i don't think they are by far better than the bottom of the other conferences...

 

[dcZONAfan]

look at it this way: purdue lost by 15 to the 2nd worst team in the pac. The worst team in the pac was able to beat decent Xavier and Dayton teams...i don't think if you stick them in the BIG they would be incapable of winning a few home games like Nebraska and Penn State have done

 

[CatsTopPac]

The strength of a conference is not found in the top or middle, it's found in the bottom. That's because the good teams in the conference don't help, as much as the bad teams hurt. When every team in a conference is at about #100 or better in RPI, then there is essentially no "bottom of the conference". And that's a big deal. Like rmilla said, there really are no "bad" losses. It's not saying that they are quality wins, just not bad losses. Every game helps your RPI and SOS. That's huge come seeding or for bubble teams. Again, it's not to say that the top of the conference is amazing, or that every team has a shot for the tourney. It just says that there are no cupcakes. There are no Temples, BCs, TCUs, DePauls, Washington States, or South Carolinas. You can't overlook anyone, and that adds up over the course of a conference season.

 

[Loneranger]

cmon dude PSU has one "quality" win this season. that win is against Ohio State.....

they have played half the Ivy League, i think...and lost to some of them. that part of your argument is pretty bad.

and before BIG play, nebraska had 0 quality wins. ZERO. Their first "quality" win, Ohio State. I think your'e getting the theme here. So this is leaning more towards showing that the middle of the BIG is extremely average.

at some point very soon beating Ohio St will not be considered a quality win.

 

[dcZONAfan]

at some point very soon beating Ohio St will not be considered a quality win.

yup, that was pretty much what I was trying to get at. I just think saying that the bottom of the big 10 is far superior to the Big 12, Pac, and ACC is very off base, especially if we are basing it on wins vs teams like OSU. All those wins prove is how bad OSU is, not how mediocre the other teams are

 

[rmilia1]

at some point very soon beating Ohio St will not be considered a quality win.

You guys are confusing your definition of qualtiy win with the selection committees. While Im sure you are a nice individual and all I would be more concerned with the committees criteria OSU can go 3-6 the rest of the way and they will still likely be a top 50 win since they are currently 18th in the RPI and there simply isnt really any games they can lose that will drop them enough to see them leave the top 50. I get your point but it isnt based in the actual reality of how it will be looked at by the people that matter.

 

[dcZONAfan]

You guys are confusing your definition of qualtiy win with the selection committees. While Im sure you are a nice individual and all I would be more concerned with the committees criteria OSU can go 3-6 the rest of the way and they will still likely be a top 50 win since they are currently 18th in the RPI and there simply isnt really any games they can lose that will drop them enough to see them leave the top 50. I get your point but it isnt based in the actual reality of how it will be looked at by the people that matter.

you are right there, rmilia, I will give you that. But sometimes you spend too much time worrying about what the committee thinks. It seems you think that teams like USC, WSU, BC, Texas Tech, etc wouldn't win any games in the Big 10 or that they wouldn't have a chance of beating the likes of purdue, illinois, penn state, nebraska...that's where I think you are slightly misguided, all of those teams would suck in any conference

 

[Loneranger]

you are right there, rmilia, I will give you that. But sometimes you spend too much time worrying about what the committee thinks. It seems you think that teams like USC, WSU, BC, Texas Tech, etc wouldn't win any games in the Big 10 or that they wouldn't have a chance of beating the likes of purdue, illinois, penn state, nebraska...that's where I think you are slightly misguided, all of those teams would suck in any conference

I agree with both of you and don't want to sound as though the Committee is irrelevant. I'm just trying to point out Ohio State simply isn't a very good team and at some point beating them is going to be expected as opposed to something to bark about. Besides, as of right now WE are the committee LOL

 

[rmilia1]

you are right there, rmilia, I will give you that. But sometimes you spend too much time worrying about what the committee thinks. It seems you think that teams like USC, WSU, BC, Texas Tech, etc wouldn't win any games in the Big 10 or that they wouldn't have a chance of beating the likes of purdue, illinois, penn state, nebraska...that's where I think you are slightly misguided, all of those teams would suck in any conference

Not what Im saying at all man. Im just saying the bottom of the B10 is better. Of course the bottom of other leagues could win some games. I mean Wash St beat Purdue, Oregon beat Illinois, Notre Dame beat Indiana etc etc but the fact remains the bottom 6 teams in the B10 are 14-5 vs other major conferences bottom half teams. Thats not hypothetical its reality. The league is just stronger at the bottom and it means that the teams at the top have it tougher night in and night out. Now on the flip side those same teams also get a chance pretty much every nigh to add to their resume where teams in other leagues dont get that so its not all bad you know??? As to me caring about the committe youll have to excuse me, Im an Iowa fan and we havent been there for 7 years so yes I do care Maybe you fans of teams that make it every damn year dont concern yourself with it but I only have two words to say to that.... FUCK OFF!!!

 

[Loneranger]

Not what Im saying at all man. Im just saying the bottom of the B10 is better. Of course the bottom of other leagues could win some games. I mean Wash St beat Purdue, Oregon beat Illinois, Notre Dame beat Indiana etc etc but the fact remains the bottom 6 teams in the B10 are 14-5 vs other major conferences bottom half teams. Thats not hypothetical its reality. The league is just stronger at the bottom and it means that the teams at the top have it tougher night in and night out. Now on the flip side those same teams also get a chance pretty much every nigh to add to their resume where teams in other leagues dont get that so its not all bad you know??? As to me caring about the committe youll have to excuse me, Im an Iowa fan and we havent been there for 7 years so yes I do care Maybe you fans of teams that make it every damn year dont concern yourself with it but I only have two words to say to that.... FUCK OFF!!!

I wouldn't argue your point about the bottom half and teams having a battle every nite. As for those Hawkeyes , we wish them the best. They used to be there all the time and should be there all the time. We commend you for hangin in there.