Evaluating those Corners

[Los Eagles]

Interesting article about WR and Corner size...

Cornerbacks playing catchup with taller, faster receivers

6 of the 8 Probowl receivers this last year were guys that averaged about 6'2" tall and 220 lbs. Dez Bryant, Calvin Johnson, Demarius Thomas, Julio Jones, Jordy Nelson, AJ Green. You need Defensive backs that can play with these guys which is why guys like Rowe, Jones and Collins are all on the Eagles RADAR. KJ is the only smaller guy under consideration. I assume for good reason as he has great skills.

But at the end of the day, if the Eagles are in a must win game against the Cowboys, do you want a Dez Bryant matchup on Kevin Johnson? Where he is giving up 30 lbs in weight, 3 inches in height and another 3 inches in arm length?

No I want Maxwell covering him

 

[Los Eagles]

I like numbers but at the end of the day, can the guy play football or what?

 

[deerpathdave]

A whopping inch of arm length and height? Gimme a break. Jones had everybody in the vertical but Johnson still jumped 41.5 inches even after adding the weight. I keep hearing how skinny he is yet he's never missed a game to injury.

Regardless of how skilled KJ is, it seems unrealistic to expect him to shutdown a Dez Bryant sort of receiver. He is giving up 30 lbs and about 6 inches in total length between his height and his arms. While he may not have the same experience, you can at least project Byron Jones physically to win the matchup.

 

[deerpathdave]

No I want Maxwell covering him

You would hope, but OCs are very skilled at getting their #1 matched up against your #2.

 

[Los Eagles]

Regardless of how skilled KJ is, it seems unrealistic to expect him to shutdown a Dez Bryant sort of receiver. He is giving up 30 lbs and about 6 inches in total length between his height and his arms. While he may not have the same experience, you can at least project Byron Jones physically to win the matchup.

It would seem unrealistic to ask ANY rookie corner to shut down a Dez! And no you cannot project Jones to physically win the matchup

 

[deerpathdave]

It would seem unrealistic to ask ANY rookie corner to shut down a Dez! And no you cannot project Jones to physically win the matchup

Byron Jones has the physical attributes to compete against the best receivers in the game. He has the size, speed and leaping ability to matchup with them. While KJ may have the best skill set and the best experience, he simply doesn't matchup physically. Byron Jones could very well be a bust, or it may take him a while to learn the NFL game, but at least at the end of day, you can envision him getting the job done. I don't think a 180 lb guy with average speed is ever going to consistently win that matchup. That is why I question his upside. Its simple physics.

 

[deerpathdave]

With a defensive backfield, your really only as good as your weakest link. Offenses will identify and exploit your weaknesses. That is one of the reasons they picked up Maxwell. As the weak link in Seattle, we was continuously targeted and held up very well.

 

[Rey]

Darrelle Revis is 5'11" Brent Grimes 5'10" ... Asante Samuel was 5'10" ... when you have the quickness and instincts to mirror receivers height goes out the window. I'll take the guy with the top instincts and break on the ball over a guy who has a little better size. Now if KJ was 5'8" with a 32" inch vert and average Combine #'s then I could see a point ... but a kid who's 6'0" with great athletic #'s and a 40+ vert with excellent tape? Not worried.

 

[deerpathdave]

Darrelle Revis is 5'11" Brent Grimes 5'10" ... Asante Samuel was 5'10" ... when you have the quickness and instincts to mirror receivers height goes out the window. I'll take the guy with the top instincts and break on the ball over a guy who has a little better size. Now if KJ was 5'8" with a 32" inch vert and average Combine #'s then I could see a point ... but a kid who's 6'0" with great athletic #'s and a 40+ vert with excellent tape? Not worried.

You know the first round pick will be one of those four guys and will end up being the starter next to Maxwell before the season if half over. And you know Jason Garrett will scheme it so Dez is matched up with him. You are really more comfortable with KJ covering Dez than Collins, Jones or Rowe? Even though he is giving up all that size to them?

 

[Rey]

Byron Jones and Jalen Collins are 6'1", KJ is 6'0". I don't see the big difference ... if Jones and Collins were 6'3" and KJ were 5'10" then you're talking significant difference, but an inch of height here, half inch of arm there and an inch vert there isn't a huge difference. When I see all 3 of those guys on film I rank them KJ first, Collins 2nd and Jones 3rd. You like Jones and Collins more than KJ and that's all good ... we all have our preference.

 

[Rey]

btw, I'm a fan of Rowe ... I would actually take him ahead of Byron Jones. Not ahead of KJ or Collins though.

My Rankings:
1.Peters
2.Waynes
3.KJ
4.Collins
5.Rowe
6.B Jones

 

[eaglesnut]

If you wanted to keep it ridiculously simple you could just rank them by their 3 cones and get pretty good correlation with how well their career will go. Even better if you removed a few of the known outliers, like guys that are quick but too short, or guys that are quick, but take false steps due to poor instincts.

That's a huge number. With corners they need to be able to flip their hips and also time the flipping of their hips. Also the timing of a jump to attack a ball is also more important than pure vertical leap.

It's pretty easy to tell that Kevin Johnson will be a successful pro because the only issue with him is strength and while that can matter at times throughout his career, all his other skills will matter more. Strength certainly shouldn't be a top indicator for a cornerback.

 

[Wings]

All this nonsense could have been avoided if they would have just drafted my boy Bradley Roby last year.
Bradley Roby had a fantastic rookie year.

 

[Los Eagles]

All this nonsense could have been avoided if they would have just drafted my boy Bradley Roby last year.
Bradley Roby had a fantastic rookie year.

Roby and Maxwell . . .

 

[Rey]

Just heard about LSU CB Jalen Collins having failed "multiple" drug tests while at LSU ... you can forget about him going in Rd 1. The question will be how far down does he slide? He already had the injury issue ...

 

[deerpathdave]

May make him available inn Round 2 if they want him?

 

[Los Eagles]

Just heard about LSU CB Jalen Collins having failed "multiple" drug tests while at LSU ... you can forget about him going in Rd 1. The question will be how far down does he slide? He already had the injury issue ...

Collins doesn't have enough experience for me. I'm not drafting him in the first round thinking of what he could be down the road. The rest of the draft is for guys like this with high upside.

The corner back lots of people feel is #1 is Trae Waynes. He's 6 foot and so is KJ. He's 186lbs. KJ is 188lbs. His hands are 8 1/4" and KJ has 8 3/8" hands. Johnson had a good vertical solid numbers overall plus good game tape. Johnson's size is questioned yet him and Waynes are virtually the same size.

Teams questioned if he could carry more weight so he did. Even with the extra weight his numbers were solid. His speed was also questioned even though he had a solid 40 time with the lbs. he added. The forty is SO overrated. PJ Williams improved his forty time at his pro day then all of the sudden he went from "maybe he's a safety" to "wow he's fast!"

For all of those guys that have that good ole 40 time advantage, I wonder if it's even a big advantage at all. Look at how fast and smooth KJ turns his hips. He's already running while some of the other CBs are still turning to run.

 

[Los Eagles]

Oh and one other thing. KJ is not a puss either! He'll tackle and he won't back down.

 

[eaglesnut]

For all of those guys that have that good ole 40 time advantage, I wonder if it's even a big advantage at all. Look at how fast and smooth KJ turns his hips. He's already running while some of the other CBs are still turning to run.

right on the money

 

[Rey]

I'm starting to hear some chatter about Kevin Johnson possibly leaping Waynes as the #1 Corner off the board Thursday. After scouts have watched more film on him they see that his quickness, break on the ball and reaction ability are right there with Waynes ... maybe even better.