Evaluating those Corners

[deerpathdave]

So it seems pretty clear that the Eagles Plan to draft a corner and have brought in the following for interviews...

Kevin Johnson Kevin Johnson - MockDraftable.com
Eric Rowe Eric Rowe - MockDraftable.com
Byron Jones Byron Jones - MockDraftable.com
Jalen Collins Jalen Collins - MockDraftable.com

It seems most likely that one of these guys is the first round pick. My question is more about how to evaluate defensive backs? I am thinking perhaps more than any other position, your looking at the numbers. Sure, you want experience, and intelligence and production. But perhaps more than any other position, athleticism matters and the tape can be misleading as its often very dependent on the coaching and responsibilities on that play. The 40 time obviously matters, but what about these 10 yard and 3 cone drills?

 

[old duke]

I put importance on: cover ability; size; athletic ability; tackling; versatility; and quickness. As long as those criteria are met, then character and experience come into play. After that, then I rank them, and take the BPA. Can he play safety in addition to corner? I don't put much into the drills, but 40 times can mean if he has enough catchup speed.

 

[deerpathdave]

I put importance on: cover ability; size; athletic ability; tackling; versatility; and quickness. As long as those criteria are met, then character and experience come into play. After that, then I rank them, and take the BPA. Can he play safety in addition to corner? I don't put much into the drills, but 40 times can mean if he has enough catchup speed.

Is quickness best measured by one of the drills like the three cone or 10 yard?

 

[Iggloo]

None of those guys will make it to our second rounder. The only possibility IMO is Rowe.

What the Eagles value is the ability to play press coverage. So for them, Jones and Rowe probably rank higher than Johnson.

They surely look at size, speed and some of these measurables. But I think they also look at who can play the technique they play. Again, Jones and Rowe are off the charts on measurables, AND they can press.

 

[deerpathdave]

Yeah my impression is Jones is the guy in the first round. Off the charts athletically, 4 year starter and team captain. The only drawback is the level of competition, and you gotta figure with his athleticism he can adapt. Then if Rowe makes it to the 2nd pick, they have the secondary well covered.

 

[Rey]

Some guys are still missing the boat on Kevin Johnson's athleticism ... second fastest at his position in the 20-yard shuttle (3.89 seconds), fourth fastest in the three-cone drill (6.79 seconds) and second best in both the vertical jump (41.5 inches) and broad jump (130 inches) and he did it all at around 10 lbs heavier than he played at all year at Wake Forest. His 40 at 4.52 wasn't as great as his other #'s, but it's fast enough. As far as press coverage ... he played a good deal of it this past season and did very well. He can play press or off which makes him scheme diverse.

 

[deerpathdave]

Some guys are still missing the boat on Kevin Johnson's athleticism ... second fastest at his position in the 20-yard shuttle (3.89 seconds), fourth fastest in the three-cone drill (6.79 seconds) and second best in both the vertical jump (41.5 inches) and broad jump (130 inches) and he did it all at around 10 lbs heavier than he played at all year at Wake Forest. His 40 at 4.52 wasn't as great as his other #'s, but it's fast enough. As far as press coverage ... he played a good deal of it this past season and did very well. He can play press or off which makes him scheme diverse.

Yeah, But he is very skinny and relatively short arms and small hands. And he missed a year for academic ineligible. It sounds like he is more skilled today, but less of an upside.

 

[Los Eagles]

He's skinny yet he's almost 190 pounds and just 12 pounds short of 200. I think he's the safer pick over the other two guys and he's just a better CB. I'm not taking Jones over him because of higher upside and what he might be down the road.

 

[Rey]

Yeah, But he is very skinny and relatively short arms and small hands. And he missed a year for academic ineligible. It sounds like he is more skilled today, but less of an upside.

188 lbs is fine for a 6'0" rookie Corner. Trae Waynes and Marcus Peters have the same arm length and hand size as KJ. Why exactly does KJ have less upside?

 

[Wings]

Personally I like Marcus Peters, Jalen Collins and Eric Rowe over Kevin Johnson.

 

[Rey]

Personally I like Marcus Peters, Jalen Collins and Eric Rowe over Kevin Johnson.

I like those guys as well ... just in a different order. Love Peters and like Rowe a good deal, but not more than JK. Collins has grown on me as I've done more research. I see very little downside with KJ.

 

[old duke]

I just want 2 of these 4 guys. Rowe and Jones can play CB or S. We would be set with them + Maxwell and Jenkins. Whoo Hoo!

 

[deerpathdave]

188 lbs is fine for a 6'0" rookie Corner. Trae Waynes and Marcus Peters have the same arm length and hand size as KJ. Why exactly does KJ have less upside?

Wayans is the one that is viewed as much better. I think his 4.3 speed is the reason for that. Peters doesn't have elite measurements and was kicked off his college team. I would be surprised if he is picked ahead of any of these guys.

But your really misdirecting the question. The Eagles haven't shown interest in Wayans or Peters. The comparisons that they are weighing are Johnson to Jones, Collins and Rowe. I have no issue with any of the four, but I am curious in which order they will fall.

 

[Rey]

While measurables do factor in, I put much more emphasis on things like break on the ball, quickness in changing direction and instincts. From all the film/tape I've watched on all these Corners ... I like KJ's the best. I don't think an extra inch of arm length makes any difference at all with anything .... especially when you have a vertical as good as KJ does.

 

[deerpathdave]

While measurables do factor in, I put much more emphasis on things like break on the ball, quickness in changing direction and instincts. From all the film/tape I've watched on all these Corners ... I like KJ's the best. I don't think an extra inch of arm length makes any difference at all with anything .... especially when you have a vertical as good as KJ does.

I do agree, skills and instincts matter, but so does the athleticism. Jones has 3 inches more veritical than KJ, 2 inches more height and 1 inch more arm. All together that is an additional 6 inches of potential coverage. Can make a huge difference when their trying to defend a jump ball against Dez Bryant.

 

[deerpathdave]

Size and strength are an issue with KJ. Evidently his 188 lbs is a recent add and he played last year at 175. Its great that he added the muscle, but it raises the question if he can keep it on? At the end of the day, he simply is not as big as Jones. 188 vice 199 is a huge difference and goes to the question of how he will handle the physical receivers. Remember, big people beat up little people.

 

[Iggloo]

If you just look at Jones and some of these corners, they are way more muscular than Johnson. But Johnson is probably the best pure cover corner of the entire group, with the only exception maybe being Peters.

 

[deerpathdave]

Interesting article about WR and Corner size...

Cornerbacks playing catchup with taller, faster receivers

6 of the 8 Probowl receivers this last year were guys that averaged about 6'2" tall and 220 lbs. Dez Bryant, Calvin Johnson, Demarius Thomas, Julio Jones, Jordy Nelson, AJ Green. You need Defensive backs that can play with these guys which is why guys like Rowe, Jones and Collins are all on the Eagles RADAR. KJ is the only smaller guy under consideration. I assume for good reason as he has great skills.

But at the end of the day, if the Eagles are in a must win game against the Cowboys, do you want a Dez Bryant matchup on Kevin Johnson? Where he is giving up 30 lbs in weight, 3 inches in height and another 3 inches in arm length?

 

[Los Eagles]

I like those guys as well ... just in a different order. Love Peters and like Rowe a good deal, but not more than JK. Collins has grown on me as I've done more research. I see very little downside with KJ.

I don't see how Rowe is better than Johnson. Agree with there being very little downside with KJ.

 

[Los Eagles]

While measurables do factor in, I put much more emphasis on things like break on the ball, quickness in changing direction and instincts. From all the film/tape I've watched on all these Corners ... I like KJ's the best. I don't think an extra inch of arm length makes any difference at all with anything .... especially when you have a vertical as good as KJ does.

A whopping inch of arm length and height? Gimme a break. Jones had everybody in the vertical but Johnson still jumped 41.5 inches even after adding the weight. I keep hearing how skinny he is yet he's never missed a game to injury.